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Wylted
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@3RU7AL
It drives potential revolutionaries underground.

Correct, making it impossible for any opposing academics to put together good arguments against their arguments. Meaning they become more persuasive.  

And if done properly, it can prevent revolution altogether
I'd like to see some evidence of this, or at very least a theory presented as to why that might be true.
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@Wylted
I'd like to see some evidence of this, or at very least a theory presented as to why that might be true.
Teodoro Obiang Nguema Mbasogo - since 1979
José Eduardo dos Santos - since 1979
Robert Mugabe - since 1980
Paul Biya - since 1982
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@Wylted
Revolutions are usually a result from lack of freedom.  Not sure how restricting freedom, prevents it
Study your history.  The causes of Revolution are complex but there is a definite trend of general improvement preceding revolution precipitated by some sharp inhibition on that improvement.   

  • Americans colonists were arguably the richest, most free people in the world when they rebelled against the Stamp Act.  The average (White, male) colonist was certainly much more free than the average Englishman at the time.
  • The Glorious Revolution and French Revolution were preceded by decades of incremental improvements in nutrition, prosperity and civil rights.
  • Russia went from emancipating the serfs in 1861 to rapid industrialization.  Life in the cities was tumultuous but by 1914 there weren't many Russians who could not say they were living far more free and rich and educated than their fathers and grandfathers.
    • Certainly in the case of the French and Russian revolutions, the people were willing to trade some of those new freedoms for peace by the end of their revolutions and ended up less free than before. 
People don't rebel because of lack of freedom.  People rebel when they are given enough freedom to think for themselves and organize new centers of power and when those new centers of power are threatened, they fight for their lives.

People with no freedom- southern slaves, Russian serfs, etc have little capacity to organize or publicize.  They might rebel against immediate circumstance but they never organize to the level of political revolution on the nation-state level.


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@oromagi
People don't rebel because of lack of freedom.  People rebel when they are given enough freedom to think for themselves and organize new centers of power and when those new centers of power are threatened, they fight for their lives.

People with no freedom- southern slaves, Russian serfs, etc have little capacity to organize or publicize.  They might rebel against immediate circumstance but they never organize to the level of political revolution on the nation-state level.
Well stated.

12 days later

ebuc
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@3RU7AL
@oromagi
They might rebel against immediate circumstance but they never organize to the level of political revolution on the nation-state level.

Other than youth in general we see ' rebel without a cause ' genre in movies starting with  1955 James Dean movie.  Before that we real cause ex Woody Guthrie.

Trump and his cultist trumpeteers are just the latest ' rebels without a cause ' who like to believe their freedom is to;

1} poop on others unnecessarily --i.e. without rational, logical comomon sense cause---,

2} create false narrative propaganda to make it appear that have a real cause,

3} freedom to not weak masks, that, help to migate covid2 and other viral or bacterial organisms,

4} freedom to not get FDA approved vaccinations, that, mitigate effects of covid2, and save our health car workers a lot of undue hardship, that,

.........4a} the free hospital agenda for other elective services ex knee replacement,  liver replacement etc without creating more severe situations in hospitals for those getting elective surgeries,

5} freedom to commit unnecessary insurrection --where people are killed--- at USA capital congressional building,

6} freedom to espouse non-sense conspiracies,

7} all the other irrelevant nonsense freedoms they like to rant and rave about as if it were the end-of-humanity { 2232 approx. }.



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@ebuc
what's your policy proposal ?

censorship ?

martial law ?
ebuc
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@3RU7AL
what's your policy proposal ?
In regards to what specifically?

censorship ?
There are places for it occur. Dont you agree 3ru?

martial law ?
There are times and places --global martial law--- for it to occur.  Ex vaccines approved as safe should be mandated globally ergo global martial law. Dont you agre3Ru?

Oh wait, you might be one of those who belive there should exist no human laws, only physical laws aka cosmic principles ergo, God/Universe already has in place { Earth } all the laws 3ru needs or would ever want on planet Earth. ? ? ?




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@ebuc
Have fun burning down your own straw-man.
ebuc
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@3RU7AL
Have fun burning down your own straw-man.

Huh? Irrational, illogical lack of common sense 3Ru. 

You avoid the tough questions. Why?

What happened to our great philosopher that so many thought you were?
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@ebuc
Have fun burning down your own straw-man.
Huh? Irrational, illogical lack of common sense 3Ru. 

You avoid the tough questions. Why?

What happened to our great philosopher that so many thought you were?
There's not much point interacting with you on this topic if you're just going to make up my side of the discussion out of pure imagination.
ebuc
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@3RU7AL
There's not much point interacting with you on this topic if you're just going to make up my side of the discussion out of pure imagination.
1} You evade the "point" of my tough questions.  Why?

what's your policy proposal ?
2} In regards to what specifically?

censorship ?
3} There are places for it occur. Dont you agree 3ru?

martial law ?
4} There are times and places --global martial law--- for it to occur.  Ex vaccines approved as safe should be mandated globally ergo global martial law. Dont you agre3Ru?

5} Oh wait, you might be one of those who belive there should exist no human laws, only physical laws aka cosmic principles ergo, God/Universe already has in place { Earth } all the laws 3ru needs or would ever want on planet Earth. ? ? ?

So it appears, as tho you { 3RuAL } only concedes to God's/Universe's  --includes sub-catagory multiverse ---  inviolate physical laws/cosmic principles, and eschew all human laws?  Yes? Is my assessment  if you overall policy in regards to the question marks you asked of me?

So, 3RuAL,  you neither agree nor disagrees with my assessments ergo you are sit in middle of road, neutral philosopher.  Yes? No?







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@ebuc
Pick one question at a time.
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@ebuc
I'm STEEL-MANNING your position here,

ebuc
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@3RU7AL
Pick one question at a time......I'm STEEL-MANNING your position here,

Super-man is the man-of-steel. So is USA's PIttsburg Pirates football team.

3Rual, their in sequential order.  You do not have mental capacity to just address any one of them?  C,mon old friend. You can do it, I know you can.  You are the super-philosopher ergo you have an opinon on any and all subject matter.

here's not much point interacting with you on this topic if you're just going to make up my side of the discussion out of pure imagination.
1} You evade the "point" of my tough questions.  Why?

what's your policy proposal ?
2} In regards to what specifically?

censorship ?
3} There are places for it occur. Dont you agree 3ru?

martial law ?
4} There are times and places --global martial law--- for it to occur.  Ex vaccines approved as safe should be mandated globally ergo global martial law. Dont you agre3Ru?

5} Oh wait, you might be one of those who belive there should exist no human laws, only physical laws aka cosmic principles ergo, God/Universe already has in place { Earth } all the laws 3ru needs or would ever want on planet Earth. ? ? ?

So it appears, as tho you { 3RuAL } only concedes to God's/Universe's  --includes sub-catagory multiverse ---  inviolate physical laws/cosmic principles, and eschew all human laws?  Yes? Is my assessment  if you overall policy in regards to the question marks you asked of me?

So, 3RuAL,  you neither agree nor disagrees with my assessments ergo you are sit in middle of road, neutral philosopher.  Yes? No?



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@ebuc
here's not much point interacting with you on this topic if you're just going to make up my side of the discussion out of pure imagination.
1} You evade the "point" of my tough questions.  Why?
Please present the "point" of ONE of your (self-described) "tough questions".
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@ebuc
what's your policy proposal ?
2} In regards to what specifically?
In regard to the "point" you're trying to make.
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@ebuc
censorship ?
3} There are places for it occur. Dont you agree 3ru?
Nope.
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@ebuc
martial law ?
4} There are times and places --global martial law--- for it to occur. 
Perhaps in a massive natural disaster and or actual warzone.

Ex vaccines approved as safe should be mandated globally ergo global martial law. Dont you agre3Ru?
Nope.
3RU7AL
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@ebuc
5} Oh wait, you might be one of those who belive there should exist no human laws, only physical laws aka cosmic principles ergo, God/Universe already has in place { Earth } all the laws 3ru needs or would ever want on planet Earth. ? ? ?
LAW IS CODIFIED MOB RULE.
3RU7AL
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@ebuc
So it appears, as tho you { 3RuAL } only concedes to God's/Universe's  --includes sub-catagory multiverse ---  inviolate physical laws/cosmic principles, and eschew all human laws?  Yes? Is my assessment  if you overall policy in regards to the question marks you asked of me?
LAW IS CODIFIED MOB RULE.
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@ebuc
So, 3RuAL,  you neither agree nor disagrees with my assessments ergo you are sit in middle of road, neutral philosopher.  Yes? No?
I am unable to detect a coherent policy proposal from your yammerings.
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@oromagi
On the day of election, the conspiracy manufacturing  project known as QAnon seems to have come to sharp end
The QAnon you read about in the news is not the core Q.

The QAnon you believe is isolated to chanchan is not the core Q.
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@3RU7AL
Well, let's recall QAnon is supposed to be a single individual working for the Dept. of Energy with a Q clearance.  One would assume that individual would represent core Q and 8kun certainly represented itself as the portal for that individual 2019-20.  Now that that claim is debunked, I'm not sure what would represent core QAnon (or even how a religion persists after their prophet has been exposed as a fraud).  I have read that the most popular QAnon site this summer is QSear.ch, and as the .ch domain demonstrates that site is being run by China.  I think the 8kun server is in a backyard shed in Portland now but the site security is being run by the Russian military out of St. Petersburg.   There's little to suggest that any core American interest is generating content now.
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@oromagi
Well, let's recall QAnon is supposed to be a single individual working for the Dept. of Energy with a Q clearance.  One would assume that individual would represent core Q and 8kun certainly represented itself as the portal for that individual 2019-20.  Now that that claim is debunked, I'm not sure what would represent core QAnon (or even how a religion persists after their prophet has been exposed as a fraud).  I have read that the most popular QAnon site this summer is QSear.ch, and as the .ch domain demonstrates that site is being run by China.  I think the 8kun server is in a backyard shed in Portland now but the site security is being run by the Russian military out of St. Petersburg.   There's little to suggest that any core American interest is generating content now.
How many people have you actually had conversations with who claim to be part of Q ?

That's all I'm saying.

I wouldn't trust a Muslim to describe all Christians, and in the same way I wouldn't trust a Christian to describe all Muslims.

The "story" you've been fed about the origin and existence (and demise) of Q is not the same story you get from individuals who self-identify as Q.
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@Intelligence_06
I mean, as a Chinese person I would technically be glad if Trump won because then we will be #1 ;)

China is number one now. There was no way for them to lose.
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I think this mistakes correlation with causation. Q collapsed because Trump being ousted and not being returned to power for months proved conclusively that there was no 'plan' to be trusted. The Q people ran a grift by feeding delusional boomers a fantasy that there were powerful 'good guys' behind the scenes who would take care of everything and solve all of the problems of the world. This naturally appealed to boomer conservatives. a consummately lazy and risk-averse population which loved the idea of a political activism that involved sitting on their fat asses and checking social media all day. The generation that ruined the country wouldn't have to do anything to actually fix it, just sit back and 'enjoy the show'? I couldn't imagine a more appealing message for the target demographic.

At present the previous target demographic is divided into two groups: people who have had a complete break with reality in order to avoid processing the idea that the world sucks, that it's going to get worse, and that it's largely their fault; or the people who are starting to come to terms with the reality that there's no American James Bond hero coming to save them, and that they'll actually have to extract themselves from the permanent couch indents which they inhabit and do politics if they want to affect any real change. I think that first group is slowly but surely shrinking as the psychic toll of reconciling reality to their delusions reaches new heights.
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@3RU7AL
Well, let's recall QAnon is supposed to be a single individual working for the Dept. of Energy with a Q clearance.  One would assume that individual would represent core Q and 8kun certainly represented itself as the portal for that individual 2019-20.  Now that that claim is debunked, I'm not sure what would represent core QAnon (or even how a religion persists after their prophet has been exposed as a fraud).  I have read that the most popular QAnon site this summer is QSear.ch, and as the .ch domain demonstrates that site is being run by China.  I think the 8kun server is in a backyard shed in Portland now but the site security is being run by the Russian military out of St. Petersburg.   There's little to suggest that any core American interest is generating content now.
How many people have you actually had conversations with who claim to be part of Q ? That's all I'm saying.

I wouldn't trust a Muslim to describe all Christians, and in the same way I wouldn't trust a Christian to describe all Muslims.

The "story" you've been fed about the origin and existence (and demise) of Q is not the same story you get from individuals who self-identify as Q.
Agreed. But that very fact invalidates QAnon’s credibility.  The whole point of the religion was that there was a high ranking official within the dept of energy who was leaking information that nobody else in the Trump administration dare say. Since that story is discredited, QAnon itself is discredited and all the false assertions based on that source discredited. 

To use your analogy, if we later discovered that the man who died on the cross was Jesus’s twin brother, Christ and his assertions would stand generally discredited.  Sure James and Peter might try to change the story and claim that they self-identify as Christ now but why should anybody give a shit?  

The story we’ve been fed about the origin and existence of Q came from Q.  I guess conspiracy theorists can go back to making up their own lies but it is important that we that we keep exposing them as corrupt liars, right?

I think I would trust a Muslim to define Christianity  more than I would a Baptist or catholic- more objective, no specific dogma to defend. Likewise, I would trust a Christian to describe Islam better than a Sunni or a Shi’a
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@ResurgetExFavilla
res...This naturally appealed to boomer conservatives. a consummately lazy and risk-averse population which loved the idea of a political activism that involved sitting on their fat asses and checking social media all day. The generation that ruined the country wouldn't have to do anything to actually fix it, just sit back and 'enjoy the show'? I couldn't imagine a more appealing message for the target demographic.'''

Thank you res and oromagi . All Ha great stuff!  And lets us not forget the Putins Russian Politico/Mafia who aided in the misleading false narrative.

Q > religion racist bigotry keeps USA right by might { the fist punch } ---as we saw at Trumpet rallies---  Sad :--( sick-n-head politics

Trumpet { chaos insurraction } > USA political mouthpiece  for Q etc

Putin > political chaos enhancer  behind-the-scenes { invisible } wizards of internet political direction {  mis-direction }.