Using the terms "racism" and "racist" makes you look stupid

Author: MgtowDemon

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#121
TheUnderdog
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@HistoryBuff
Saying that someone is racist because they believe that whites are smarter than blacks is like saying someone is sexist because they believe men are physically stronger than women.  If it’s true, then it’s not racist or sexist to say either claim.  It would be a fact at that point.

If someone said that gays and bisexuals are more likely to get HIV, provided the source they put is reliable, this isn’t homophobic to say.  It is a fact.

#122
HistoryBuff
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@TheUnderdog
Saying that someone is racist because they believe that whites are smarter than blacks is like saying someone is sexist because they believe men are physically stronger than women.  If it’s true, then it’s not racist or sexist to say either claim.  It would be a fact at that point.
your statement is essentially "saying something that is the textbook definition of racism isn't racism". That is just stupid on the face of it. Saying one race is superior to another is racism. End of story. attempts to justify it only make you look more racist. 

#123
3RU7AL
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@HistoryBuff
saying that one race is superior to another is the textbook example of racism. It is not possible to be more racist than that. He believed that black people were genetically inferior to white people. There is no constructive conversation possible with someone like that. 
I'm not finding any specific reference to "racism" in the CoC. [LINK]

You may not threaten or promote violence against any person or persons, barring hyperbole against public figures (e.g., “all politicians should be shot”). Advocacy in favor of terrorism and/or violent extremism, especially as related to hate groups as generally defined by the SPLC, is likewise prohibited.
I'm not sure having an opinion about the intelligence of people who happen to have certain skin-tones counts as "promoting violence".

There's also a mention of "hate speech" but that term isn't rigorously defined.

If someone says something like, "all red-haired people are stupid" is that "hate speech"?

Or if someone says something like, "all liberals are stupid" is that "hate speech"?

Getting banned for excessive ad hominem attacks would seem justifiable (as long as the standards of enforcement apply uniformly to all members).
#124
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@3RU7AL
I'm not finding any specific reference to "racism" in the CoC. [LINK]
I'm not a mod, so I'm not going to get into that with you. if you want to debate that link the mod that banned him. 

but he was a racist asshole spreading bullshit white supremacism nonsense. We are better off being rid of him. 

#125
Death23
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@TheUnderdog
Saying that someone is racist because they believe that whites are smarter than blacks is like saying someone is sexist because they believe men are physically stronger than women.  If it’s true, then it’s not racist or sexist to say either claim.  It would be a fact at that point.

If someone said that gays and bisexuals are more likely to get HIV, provided the source they put is reliable, this isn’t homophobic to say.  It is a fact.
OK. Start picketing that blacks have low IQs. Get a loudspeaker and say that they're genetically inferior, that the slavery really wasn't that bad, and that owning a black slave is like owning a dog. Deny that racism has any adverse impact on black people and say that their lots in life are caused by genetic deficiencies.

That's basically what that guy did here. Now why would you do something like that? It's not dispassionate. It's an expression of racial hatred. Ergo, it was hate speech.
#126
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@TheUnderdog
Saying that someone is racist because they believe that whites are smarter than blacks is like saying someone is sexist because they believe men are physically stronger than women.  If it’s true, then it’s not racist or sexist to say either claim.  It would be a fact at that point.
"I'm not racist but...[proceeds to say something stupid]"

Racism does not mean "stuff I don't agree with".  

If someone said that gays and bisexuals are more likely to get HIV
It doesn't work this way.  In reality, chances of contracting HIV are directly related to choosing risky behavior.
#127
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The argument that using "racism" is bad seems like it comes from someone who has lived in a cellar all their lives and never interacted with humans.

Putting aside the issue of you raising racial IQ, a highly contentious and misunderstood topic where the basic 'fact' in no way encapsulates the truth of what is going on - there is nothing that makes truth mutually exclusive with racism.

I know plenty of people who have tried to use the "I'm just stating facts argument before", like people who for some reason like to just post lots and lots of articles about people of colour committing crimes but are never interested in doing the same with white people committing crimes. In that case although the individual articles may themselves be factual, the desire of the individual to continually use facts to attack particular races is itself indicative of racist viewpoints and individual facts are not themselves address the overall POV being hinted at.

This really just seems like a way for people to avoid criticism and critical analysis of their points of view and be able to say racist stuff without being challenged. If you say something that is deemed racist, you should be able to defend your statement on it's own merits and not retreat behind "But it was a faaaaaaaaact" because facts are not mutually exclusive with a racist POV. Do you think no racist has ever used a fact to support hatred of another race?

An example of this (though using a superficially harmless slogan rather than a fact) can be found in the "All Lives Matter" slogan used as a response to "Black Lives Matter". By itself and devoid of context it can be viewed as an affirmative egalitarian statement. In context however, it was actually used to dismiss issues with discrimination against black people and show that all lives didn't equally matter. Afterall, if someone was lamenting the death of a loved one would you say "Oh don't you know, lot's of people die all the time, ALL LIVES MATTER"? No it would be horribly insensitive. If a Jew was remembering the millions of Jews lost in the shoah, would you say "Don't you know lots of ethnic groups have faced genocide and even been wiped out entirely? Why are you focusing on one group? ALL LIVES MATTER!"? No, again it would be horribly insensitive and the action of trying to criticise empathy for a tragedy of that scale would be monstrous. yet for some reason some people think it's perfectly acceptable to use that slogan to shout down people raising their voices about black deaths. In some circumstances's, based on context, it's therefore reasonable to conclude that All Lives Matter is a racist slogan..


#128
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@Conway
In reality, chances of contracting HIV are directly related to choosing risky behavior.
Which gays and bi males are more likely to do.  It’s not homophobic to say this.  It’s just fact.
#129
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@HistoryBuff
but he was a racist asshole spreading bullshit white supremacism nonsense.
He is entitled to free speech. Saying that we should ban racists for “hate speech” against minorities is like saying we should ban atheists for “hate speech” against the almighty God.  Just as you can say anything hateful you want against God, and you can call him stupid, you have the right to call black people genetically stupid as well.  If you can offend God, or the president, then you can offend any racial group.

 I think what is holding black people back isn’t genetics or systemic racism, but instead it is the single motherhood epidemic that is infecting ALL racial groups, but especially the black ethnic group.  If single motherhood didn’t exist, then racial equality in America would exist more in statistics.
#130
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@TheUnderdog
Zoiks.

You seem to forget all the free land that was given away to "lighter-skin-toned-people" (in the U.S.A).

You seem to forget all the home loans that were systematically denied to "darker-skin-toned-people" (REDLINE).

You seem to forget about the disproportionate conviction rates between "lighter-skin-toned-people" and "darker-skin-toned-people".
#131
Conway
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@TheUnderdog
In reality, chances of contracting HIV are directly related to choosing risky behavior.
Which gays and bi males are more likely to do.  It’s not homophobic to say this.  It’s just fact.
Statistically speaking, those populations would have higher averages.  In reality, this sort of decision is entirely up to the individual.
#132
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@Conway
Statistically speaking, those populations would have higher averages.  In reality, this sort of decision is entirely up to the individual.
Well stated.
#133
TheUnderdog
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@3RU7AL
You seem to forget all the free land that was given away to "lighter-skin-toned-people" (in the U.S.A).
This was almost 200 years ago.  Just as Germany doesn’t have a grudge on France for invading them 200 years ago, society has moved on from those times.  You don’t see Germans telling French people to check their privilege on the basis of a French invasion 200 years ago, so you shouldn’t see black people telling white people to check their privilege based on racism that no longer exists.

 You seem to forget all the home loans that were systematically denied to "darker-skin-toned-people" (REDLINE).
I have no idea what you are referring to as black people can get loans just as whites can.

You seem to forget about the disproportionate conviction rates between "lighter-skin-toned-people" and "darker-skin-toned-people".
Currently blacks are about 6x more likely to go to jail than whites.  But blacks are also 4x more likely to grow up in a single motherhood house and significantly more likely to live in urban areas.  People who live in urban areas and people who grow up in single motherhood houses are more likely to commit crime.  When these factors are brought into the statistics and taken into account, black children raised in rural areas with 2 parents are as likely to end up in jail as whites in the same conditions.
#134
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@Conway
If gay and bi males want to be less likely to get HIV, as well as if anyone wants to avoid an STI, they should wait until marriage to have sex.
#135
3RU7AL
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@TheUnderdog
If gay and bi males want to be less likely to get HIV, as well as if anyone wants to avoid an STI, they should wait until marriage to have sex.
I think the point here is that NOT ALL gayandbimales engage in risky behavior.
#136
HistoryBuff
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@TheUnderdog
He is entitled to free speech.
if he were standing on a street corner, then you would be absolutely right. he has the right to do shit like that. A website is not a street corner. It is owned and managed by the site's owner. That owner can put limits on what you can say on their website. So no, he is not entitled to free speech. 

 I think what is holding black people back isn’t genetics or systemic racism, but instead it is the single motherhood epidemic that is infecting ALL racial groups, but especially the black ethnic group.  If single motherhood didn’t exist, then racial equality in America would exist more in statistics.
if that were true, then black children from homes with two parents would succeed at the same rate as any other group. But that isn't what happens. We have lots of studies showing that certain groups get discriminated against. If you have a name that doesn't sound like it is a a white person's name you are much less likely to get a job interview, for example. And that has absolutely nothing to do with single mothers. It has to do with racism. 

#137
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@TheUnderdog
This was almost 200 years ago.
Exactly.  The (lighter-skinned) decedents of those who received free land have had a 200 year head-start.

And the original occupants of that land have been corralled into the most desolate and remote areas (and they're still there).
#138
3RU7AL
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@TheUnderdog
When these factors are brought into the statistics and taken into account, black children raised in rural areas with 2 parents are as likely to end up in jail as whites in the same conditions.
Hmmmm, if only someone had given them some free land about 200 years ago...
#139
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@TheUnderdog
You seem to forget all the home loans that were systematically denied to "darker-skin-toned-people" (REDLINE).
I have no idea what you are referring to as black people can get loans just as whites can.
Redlining is the systematic denial of various services or goods by federal government agencies, local governments, or the private sector either directly or through the selective raising of prices. This is often manifested by placing strict criterias on specific services and goods that often disadvantage poor and minority communities.[2][3] Prior to the Fair Housing Act of 1968, there were no specific laws that protected minority populations from discriminatory practices in housing and commercial markets. Businesses were therefore able to exploit these groups in order to increase their profits.[4] Redlining was utilized in the housing industry by mortgage companies to suppress minority populations from receiving home loans to buy homes in other neighborhoods as well as to deny them the funds to improve their current homes.
This directly contributed to the spatial isolation of minority communities, a reality which incurred wide ranging impacts. Physical isolation resulted in political isolation as these residentially isolated minority groups had local political needs like increased affordable, government-subsidized housing and improved access to home loans that did not overlap with white majority groups, making political alliances difficult. [**]
#140
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@HistoryBuff
if he were standing on a street corner, then you would be absolutely right. he has the right to do shit like that. A website is not a street corner. It is owned and managed by the site's owner. That owner can put limits on what you can say on their website. So no, he is not entitled to free speech. 
THE (SPEECH) GUIDELINES SHOULD BE UNAMBIGUOUS AND ENFORCEMENT SHOULD BE UNIFORM.
#141
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@HistoryBuff
If you have a name that doesn't sound like it is a a white person's name you are much less likely to get a job interview, for example. And that has absolutely nothing to do with single mothers. It has to do with racism. 
Well stated.
#142
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@TheUnderdog
If gay and bi males want to be less likely to get HIV, as well as if anyone wants to avoid an STI, they should wait until marriage to have sex.
I guess, but that's not really why people wait for one another.
#143
TheUnderdog
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@3RU7AL
Not all of them do, but enough gay and bi males have promiscuous sex and as a result, get STDs.  People shouldn’t have sex until marriage to prevent STI spreading.
#144
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@TheUnderdog
Not all of them do, but enough gay and bi males have promiscuous sex and as a result, get STDs.  People shouldn’t have sex until marriage to prevent STI spreading.
Right, but the important point here is that you can't generalize individual risk.
#145
TheUnderdog
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@HistoryBuff
If you say racist stuff on a street corner, people can walk away.  If you say racist stuff online, people can walk away ie go somewhere else.

if that were true, then black children from homes with two parents would succeed at the same rate as any other group. But that isn't what happens.
I don’t think there are any studies that show this that don’t factor out single motherhood.

If you have a name that doesn't sound like it is a a white person's name you are much less likely to get a job interview,
This might be true, but a reliable source is needed.  If it is true, then people with those names should change their name to something western.  Transgender people change their names to fit into their desired gender.  Some other people change their name just because they feel like it.  Besides the fact that most minorities have at least 1 European name(out of first name, last name), anyone who feels victimized because of their name is free to legally change their name to something that they think will give them a better job.  

The solution, if this problem exists, is certainly not racial reparations as this costs an insane amount of money, it keeps minorities dependent on government handouts, which keeps them poor, and it worsens race relations.  Sadly, this is backed by most black people, even though it encourages government dependency, which should apply to no one except government employees.
#146
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@3RU7AL
It’s not generalizing as much as it is pointing out a statistic.  When 1/8 gay and bi males get HIV and many more get other STIs, something must be done to prevent it.

#147
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@TheUnderdog
...something must be done to prevent it.
What's your policy proposal?
#148
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@TheUnderdog
If it is true, then people with those names should change their name to something western.
Yeah, that doesn't address the "real problem".
#149
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@TheUnderdog
The solution, if this problem exists, is certainly not racial reparations...
Great.

Now we know what you think is NOT the "solution".

What is your policy proposal?
#150
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@TheUnderdog
If you say racist stuff on a street corner, people can walk away.  If you say racist stuff online, people can walk away ie go somewhere else.
the better analogy would be that saying on a website is like saying it in someone else's home or business. they are well within their rights to tell you to get the hell out if you start spewing racist bullshit. 

If it is true, then people with those names should change their name to something western. 
lol what? your argument is that if people are racist, then the target of the racism just needs to change everything about themselves to avoid being different... 

Besides the fact that most minorities have at least 1 European name(out of first name, last name), anyone who feels victimized because of their name is free to legally change their name to something that they think will give them a better job.  
wow.... so basically you're saying that the real reason people are the targets of racism is because they don't change themselves to conform to the expectations of the racists? and this doesn't seem really racist and stupid to you?

The solution, if this problem exists, is certainly not racial reparations as this costs an insane amount of money, it keeps minorities dependent on government handouts, which keeps them poor, and it worsens race relations.
I didn't mention reparations. I was just pointing out an indisputable fact that racism exists and that people of other cultures or ethnicities suffer from it even if they do everything right. So trying to paint it as the problem is just "single mothers" is incredibly silly.