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@Polytheist-Witch
Yep. Can't argue with any of those statements....
Nonetheless. They are all instances of how society uses selective morality to justify contradicting itself.
Why is murder actually wrong.
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Legally we waive prosecuting soldiers for conflict since they are rarely the instigators.
I guess you're right.
A "good soldier" is more like a puppet.
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@3RU7AL
Exactly
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@3RU7AL
Not really, I'll google it and see. Vigilantly stuff? Ya, I am for that, but with a twist, You make a bad kill, you get killed on the spot, no trial.
39 days later
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@sadolite
Being told that a higher power says murder is wrong is the only thing that makes murder wrong in the collective eyes of humanity. Your fear of punishment is the only reason you don't commit crimes like murder, not because you think it is wrong.
Curious as to who is the "you" in this sentence.
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@Double_R
Really? Go rob a bank get caught and see who the "you" is. Argument for the sake of argument. "YOU" dont break the law because "YOU" are afraid of the punishment. Now tell me some shit about how you commit felonies on a daily bases and have no fear of the law or punishment
Murder us actually wrong definitionally. Murder is by definition the unlawful killing of a person ON PURPOSE. (Doing it by accident is called manslaughter)
Purposefully killing a person is not always murder and the state reserves the right to define murder.
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@secularmerlin
Murder us actually wrong definitionally. Murder Cosby definition the unlawful killing of a person ON PURPOSE. (Doing it by accident is called manslaughter)Purposefully killing a person is not always murder and the state reserves the right to define murder.
100% THIS.
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@secularmerlin
I would add that for military purposes, although killing a combatant is done purposefully, it does not meet the legal definition of murder, whereas a civilian of an opposing country at war with another who is killed in a combat situation, to me, is murder, even in a military context
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@fauxlaw
As I said the state reserves the right to define murder. There are judges specifically appointed to make such distinctions. In addition to military action such killings as killing in self defense, killing as an act of capital punishment, killing in self defense, the defense of ones home or the shooting of a suspect suspected of being armed (regardless of whether they actually were in some cases) by police may not always qualify as murder.
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@secularmerlin
agree on all
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@fauxlaw
In as much as everyone agrees to their own personal moral intuition it seems suspiciously as though morality is simply one's post hoc justification for ones subjective moral opinions.
49 days later
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@Checkmate
The Golden Rule
"What you do not wish for yourself, do not do to others." - Confucius
So would you like to be murdered? If the answer is yes, then somewhat frighteningly perhaps for you murder is ok. But it is most likely you do not want to be murdered because you feel that would be wrong of someone.
So if you can think of no other reason why murder might be wrong, then just ask yourself if you yourself would like to be murdered, and then ask yourself why you feel that it would be ok to treat someone else in a manner that you yourself would not wish to be treated.
Also belief in God is not necessary to endorse The Golden Rule. The concept pre-dates the writing of the old testament.
Unfortunately "the golden rule" does not stretch to otters, and other animals. But the same rules mostly apply to most other species that tend to view species other than themselves as fair game.
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@sadolite
Really? Go rob a bank get caught and see who the "you" is. Argument for the sake of argument. "YOU" dont break the law because "YOU" are afraid of the punishment. Now tell me some shit about how you commit felonies on a daily bases and have no fear of the law or punishment
Actually, I asked the question because I don't commit felonies or contemplate murdering anyone else and it's not because a higher power told me I'm not allowed to.
What about you? Is fear of punishment the thing that stops you from killing people and committing crimes?
13 days later
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@Double_R
Yes. Both by god and man. Mostly god. If I was allowed to change mans law all unrepentant convicted pedophiles rapists' and murder's currently in prison would be immediately executed.
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@sadolite
Right and wrong are only concepts, and GODS are only an assumption.
And self righteousness, is only what it is.
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@zedvictor4
Everyone has an opinion
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@sadolite
Very true.
Murder eliminates your future potential
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@Username
Killing murders, rapists and pedophiles reduces recidivism and acts as a deterrent for future acts by people who would do such things. It is not a deterrent if people who do such things are allowed to continue to live outside or inside of prison.
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@sadolite
A. If you kill every rapist, murderer, and pedophile then what if some of the rapists, murderers, and pedophiles you kill are not actually rapists, murderers, and pedophiles?
B. What if the rapists, murderers, and pedophiles are the way they are because they were abused by their parents, never had positive role models/ethical education in their life, etc?
C. Why is it morally acceptable to sacrifice human beings for a crime deterrent that may or may not exist?
D. Why not just sacrifice every person guilty of a major crime for deterrence of future crimes if you despise criminals so much?
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@Username
You look for perfection in life, nothing is perfect. Your arguments are no different than you wanting a 100% guarantee that you will never get hurt or be the victim of anything. Its a red herring argument. The % who would not be guilty is an acceptable loss as with anything that is permitted but still kills people. I am sure you have no problem with 50,000 people dying in car crashes every year. Have you ever advocated for banning cars, airplanes, motorcycles the list goes on. All innocent of any crime but still dead. The number of innocent in prison right now out of tens of thousands that would be put to death wrongly could be counted on 2 fingers or even 1 most likely. I would wager none.
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@sadolite
When the police take me out of my home and make me involuntarily donate all of my organs I will be sure to remember that nothing is perfect and I shouldn't be looking for perfection in life. After all, would it really be realistic to want a 100% guarantee that you will never get hurt or be the victim of anything?
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@sadolite
I'm actually curious: If one day the state arrested you for a crime you didn't commit and then killed you, would you really accept your death as a necessary casualty for deterring crimes?
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@Username
would you really accept your death as a necessary casualty for deterring crimes?
This assumes we’re capable of acceptance in death, which doesn’t sound very agnostic to me.
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@Tarik
This assumes we’re capable of acceptance in death, which doesn’t sound very agnostic to me.
Humans are capable of accepting their death regardless of religion. I don't know what you're getting at.
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@Username
Even after they’ve already been killed?
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@Username
Murder eliminates your future potential
I like that perspective as it actually eliminates the eventual future potential of both parties; victim and perp.
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@Tarik
Even after they’ve already been killed?
I'm not sure. I was asking sadolite whether he'd accept his death before it happened.
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@Username
I'm actually curious: If one day the state arrested you for a crime you didn't commit and then killed you, would you really accept your death as a necessary casualty for deterring crimes?
If I’m reading you correctly it seems to me the only fundamental difference in you and sadolites line of thinking is your stance on the death penalty because if you both agree regarding the continuation of prisons you can literally ask yourself the same question minus the death penalty point.