The President and the Economy

Author: Danielle

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Greyparrot
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@Danielle
Big Business funds and therefore controls the Republican Party. Unions are a core constituency of the Democrat Party. 

Last 2 elections show this isn't true at all. DNC got far, far more money from big corps.

You should make a distinction between Union bosses and union members. The union bosses act as the CEO of a corporation of human capital. Like I said before, I don't care if human capital wants to form a corporation. I just don't like monopoly powers that lead to job creators leaving due to "mah worker rights"
If there are American workers willing to perform "substandard" jobs, you should let them in a free country of association instead of cannibalizing those jobs to make the few elite employed union members wealthy for the time their jobs are fiscally solvent. Getting a job as an inexperienced worker in a unionized industry shouldn't be that hard, but it is when there are no choices or opportunities.

to be as generous with a Democrat president,

I don't really care who is president in either party. The Congress has all the power to affect me personally. President is just a faceman.
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@Danielle
It increases company profits which is good for business owners and shareholders (and hey Trump uses the stock market as the primary benchmark for a nation's economic success, so it must be valid). It lowers the cost of consumer goods. It allows for trade opportunities like the example I gave yesterday re: my friend who runs two businesses selling Chinese goods, and is able to employ dozens of Americans doing so. I also think it's a good way (maybe the only way) to lift third world countries out of poverty although that's not necessarily good for the object nation in question. 

Like it or not the economy evolves. It evolved after slavery. It evolved after machines and later automation started replacing human labor. It evolved after WWII when we started to see the first shift away from manufacturing and into the service sector. I think for national security purposes we should continue some semblance of manufacturing. I also think everyone in the private sector should unionize. Sometimes for funsies I like to read and philosophize about concepts like UBI or worker collectives. Unlike most people I'm comfortable acknowledging I have more questions than answers. 

soo...the costs have something to do with security?

Can you start over, re-read the statement, and respond with "the opportunity costs are..."...Thanks. Although your ramblings are interesting, I would like a clearer answer.

Maybe do what I do for google searches when I want actual information and add the -Trump logic switch in the Google search bar.
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@Danielle
 You didn't answer which field you would put me in though. I'm curious! 
You haven't answered my question about opportunity costs to the nation. I would need to know this to answer yours.
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@Greyparrot
Sin taxes create higher costs for entrepreneurs which limits employment + growth opportunities. 

correct, but the whole point of sin taxes is to offset the costs associated with that consumption, such as lung cancer hospitalizations, drunk driving, or large swaths of unemployed people.

It's also aimed at incentivizing expenditures into areas that do not damage the fabric of society. Growth in sectors beneficial for society and a nation
I bet the smokers wind up paying more in taxes, get old and die like everyone else, and then you receive a greater share of entitlements in your retirement. 

Excise taxes have two effects.  They raise the cost of entry, resulting in some decrease of realized demand.  They collect revenue, typically on luxury items.  You'd have to explain to me how a duty would "offset" the cost of lung cancer, a car accident, or sitting on your butt.  Taxes are different than buying insurance, and going to work. 

How this all relates to the path Congress took on corporate/income taxes is something I haven't looked into.  Did you know we are living in the longest bull market in history?

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@Greyparrot
Last 2 elections show this isn't true at all. DNC got far, far more money from big corps.

Which elections were those? Both parties are dominated by corporate money, but I don't see how a link about union members supporting Trump proves that. There is no way you can deny Dems are better for workers and unions than the GOP which is why you haven't tried. Good. Unions directed 91% of their campaign contributions to Democrats from 1990 through the first half of 2020 for a reason. And individual union members voting against their own economic interests (or at least against worker protections and pro worker candidates) proves to me they're more likely racist than concerned about their financial well being than they are with worker rights, as I just said in my last post. The only reason they have unions in the first place is because of Democrats, but the second someone comes along and dog whistles to their biases their dicks get hard and they can't help but start waving giant flags with his name on it. How embarrassing. 


I don't really care who is president in either party. 
Lol coulda fooled me. You went hard for Trump. Own it. 


You haven't answered my question about opportunity costs to the nation.  

I don't see what my answer has to do with my skill set. I won't apologize for my tangent either, cuz I was responding to the wrong quote. Deal with it. My points are good. You're welcome for sharing my insight with you :) 

Yes national security is one of the only opportunity costs I see from outsourcing if you're referring to the country as a whole and not individual jobs or industries. There's exposed security + economic risk being at the mercy of other countries in important sectors like manufacturing. Take the Covid-19 crisis as one example when we needed lots of PPE and fast. We would not want to have to rely on China or any other country for supplies in an instance like that.

It goes without saying I'm very much pro trade. I do think we need to renegotiate a few things, but for the most part outsourcing jobs doesn't bother me. I guess another opportunity cost would be trading stability and security in exchange for prosperity and opportunity. However I very much value the latter. The economy will evolve to provide jobs in the US; that's what I was getting at in my last post. 

There is an old anecdote (probably fiction) about Milton Friedman being taken on a tour of a giant Chinese infrastructure project of some kind, in which the workers were using old-fashioned shovels and picks and wheelbarrows. Friedman asked why they weren’t using bulldozers and other heavy machinery. The answer was“We care about creating jobs for our people.” To which Friedman responded “Then why not use spoons?”
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Both parties are dominated by corporate money,

Which party got the most money? It's not even close, 2016 the money was 2 to 1.
I know it hurts the feels but the DNC is the party that stays bought.

proves to me they're more likely racist 
More likely to be people you don't like. I get what you are laying down.

My points are good. You're welcome for sharing my insight with you :) 

The check is in the mail.

 You went hard for Trump.
of course, I went hard for Trump. He is the clown that single-handedly triggered the Democratic Congress to expose themselves for what they were. Do you really think the Congress would have swung hard right if Jeb Bush were president? Not a chance in hell the DNC Congress would have attempted to impeach good ole boy Jeb for "obstruction of the Congress" A ton of RINOS also got their asses handed to them as well. Double joy.

Yeah, I am absolutely ecstatic about how the Congress improved over the one that tried to mandate government-managed healthcare. Trump wasn't able to do a goddamn thing the Congress wouldn't let him, and that's always been the case for every president. I don't really give a fuck about the president beyond the implications it has for the direction of Congress.

Yes national security is one of the only opportunity costs I see from outsourcing 
So you are one of those "learn to code" types. I guess that's okay. Not very popular but it's inevitable.
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@Greyparrot
Which party got the most money? It's not even close, 2016 the money was 2 to 1.

Who cares? We're specifically talking about money from Big Business and not the year 2016 alone. 

I know it hurts the feels but the DNC is the party that stays bought.
Do you have a problem with that?

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@Greyparrot
According to the Center for Responsive Politics, from 1990 - 2020 Republicans received 57% of donations from big business while Democrats received 43%.

Business trade associations gave 84% of their campaign contributions to Republicans and just 16% to Democrats.

2019 report found found that 57.7% of CEOs from the top 1,500 US companies donated to Republicans and just 18.6% donated to Democrats.

So yes there is a lot of corporate money everywhere but more goes to Republicans overall. Dems are the ones who advocate for campaign finance reform (though I disagree with them on Citizens United) and that have candidates who want to end corporate donations entirely. You probably agree with Dems on this and just feel the need to shit on them anyway because you can't help yourself. Trump supporters are too stupid for their own good. 
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@Danielle
So yes there is a lot of corporate money everywhere but more goes to Republicans overall.
Sure, if you want to go back to the good-ole RINO days and dig up some pre-2016 data about how CEOs bought RINOS in the GOP. Good point.

2016 and up is all I care about.

Trump supporters are too stupid for their own good. 
If the "scream at the sky" club was so smart, they wouldn't have cannibalized the power of the Congress for a stupid faceman in a fancy white house.

I am absolutely happy with how things turned out. How about you?
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@Greyparrot
So you are one of those "learn to code" types.

Well I don't fetishize Ayn Rand but I recognize the reality of evolving markets.  Did you somehow figure out how to hook up a typewriter to the internet so as to not displace any typewriter manufacturers and salesman? Or did you get yourself a computer? Hopefully not the latter. I would hate to see you be such a selfish, un-American capitalist. 

If your primary concern is ensuring everyone has a (well paying) job, why not just have the government hire people to dig holes with spoons? Then you could hire other people to re-fill the holes with spoons and double the demand for labor. BAM I AM A FUCKING GENIUS. Eat shit Donald Trump I just figured out how to wipe out unemployment entirely. Someone get this idea to Bernie. 
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@Greyparrot
If the "scream at the sky" club was so smart, they wouldn't have cannibalized the power of the Congress for a stupid faceman in a fancy white house.

If the "I'm desperate to suck the spray tan off Trump's dick" club was so smart, they wouldn't routinely vote against their own interests just to "own the libs" on Facebook. Thank god Facebook is free or else many wouldn't even be able to do that. 
Danielle
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2016 and up is all I care about.

Interesting. Looks like most money going to Dems from "organizations" are unions. 
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@Danielle
Union CEO's sure.

 Facebook

Has as much power over me as the fashionable monkey faceman in the whitehouse.
Danielle
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@Greyparrot
If you haven't needed a Supreme Court case to determine if (people like) you have equal rights, then you're privileged enough to not have to care who the President is. Unfortunately the President does have direct power over people like me regarding their political and judicial appointments.  For instance the Trump administration submitted amicus briefs to the Supreme Court in support of discrimination against LGBTQ people. My wife doesn't work for the state anymore but she used to. It's not an unimaginable world where I could be directly impacted by troglodyte conservatives.
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@Danielle
then you're privileged enough to not have to care who the President is.

I do care about the SCOTUS, which is why the Senate is far more powerful than any faceman president.

Ask Merrick Garland about how insignificant the Senate is to shaping the makeup of the SCOTUS.

But go on, scream at the sky about how important any president is.
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@Greyparrot
Ask Merrick Garland about how insignificant the Senate is to shaping the makeup of the SCOTUS.

Sure. Then you can Ask Mitt Romney how his federal appointments to the judiciary are working out for him. 



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@Danielle
Well I don't fetishize Ayn Rand but I recognize the reality of evolving markets.

I do as well, so I am on the fence with the "learn to code" crowd.

I actually respect Yang for addressing the problem of displaced workers in a world without tarriffs.
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@Danielle
Mitt Romney

You love your RINOs, don't you? A vanishing breed. Root for the underdog.
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@Greyparrot
I'm not screaming :)  I just have to correct your shitty takes and less than mediocre contributions.  Even now you probably think you're making some kind of point about the Democrats' battle for the Senate.  

Yes. Democrats would like to have a Senate majority. What a profoundly astute observation. Thank you for the civics reminder on how the Supreme Court picks are decided. What does that have to do with anything we were talking about? You said Big Business donates more to Democrats. That was wrong. I noted that interestingly unions are the biggest orgs that donate to Dems. Then you brought up a red herring about how "the president doesn't matter much to you" to distract from the fact that your claim about donations was incorrect. So I said the president matters to people like me and you think I'm "screaming" because I explained why? Lol relax. 

I also respect Yang for addressing the problem of displaced workers in a world without tariffs. 

And I could get down with a good RINO. Mitt Romney isn't a RINO but I do like him. Trump's a RINO lol. 


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@Danielle
Also...why the hell are our avatars anthropomorphic animals with sunglasses?????

 You said Big Business donates more to Democrats. That was wrong.

If you look prior to 2016 and your fascination with the Rino period of history, sure.

Do you really have a pipedream where Romney suddenly becomes relevant in the future? How would that happen?
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@Greyparrot
Also...why the hell are our avatars anthropomorphic animals with sunglasses?????

I just noticed that yesterday! I thought you did it in honor of me. I was flattered. 


Like I've said, I'm fascinated to see where the GOP goes from here. I understand why you don't think the Mitt Romney's of the world will never be relevant again, and that may  be true. But we know Trump's personality lost in 2020. We don't know that it would have won in 2016 had the Dems run a more likeable candidate and better campaign.

Maybe there is a balance to be struck. I think voters liked the "political outsider" populism and pro America posturing from Trump, but they were exhausted by 2020 from all his shenanigans. Perhaps the GOP needs another big personality that's a bit more dignified, although again I truly find it hard to believe that the Republican Party is suddenly going to abandon their corporatist agenda so that's another thing I'm curious to see play out.

You're the one who keeps reiterating that Congress > President, so what makes you think the Republican Congress has done a complete 180? I guess it's possible Trump runs a media conglomerate and promotes specific candidates (eventually his offspring; probably Ivanka) that propel a protectionist position that may gain steam within the GOP. That's my prediction of what's to come.  It'll be interesting to see how that divides the GOP though much like progressives do the Dems. 
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I just noticed that yesterday! I thought you did it in honor of me. I was flattered. 

My avatar was designed by the ridiculously underrated creative genius user known as RM.
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@Danielle
I truly find it hard to believe that the Republican Party is suddenly going to abandon their corporatist agenda so that's another thing I'm curious to see play out.

Why wouldn't they knowing getting outspent 2 to 1 since 2016 doesn't ensure election outcomes anymore?
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@Greyparrot
So money doesn't matter in politics? 
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@Danielle
Only if the RINOS somehow make a resurgence.