I am Gay - if your god told you to murder me, would you murder me?

Author: Theweakeredge

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#61
Stephen
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@Intelligence_06
Well if it is hateful then we should challenge it or ignore it. 

 Make your mind up!  How can one challenge it if you believe it is hateful to even  repeat it? 


Should the creator  of this thread , Theweakeredge "ignore " the fact that the god of Christians want him  dead !!!? 
#62
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@SirAnonymous
Why ever not?
"because Christ fulfilled the law with His death (see Romans 3-4 and Hebrews 7)."



"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.Matthew 5:17 Jesus changed no law and he made that clear.    And he didn't relieve anyone of their duty towards god commands either especially Christians! 




I am not rewriting the Bible when I say that verse doesn't apply to Christians.

 That is exactly what you are doing. Are we to ignore then what peter says?  Acts 5:29  “We must obey God rather than human beings"!



Yes, it singles homosexuals out.  It singles them out for the death penalty. i.e an early death.  There is nothing misleading about it.
It also tells us that everyone's sins deserve death. If God wanted to, He could kill us all and would be justified in doing so.

Then why single out  these deaths for homosexuality  from other deaths for  sins inherited. . You making no sense . Is all you are doing is attempting - with irrelevant verses - to defend the indefeasible. In fact god singles out adulterers and those that work on the sabbath for a premature death too, doesn't he. 


We are talking execution here... Most of us reading here understand perfectly well that we are not talking murder, but execution, the taking of ones life prematurely.
According to the OP, we're talking about murder,
 
But I am.


And what if your god told you to "execute"  someone for being say.... homosexual?  As per his commands at  Leviticus 20:13 . Or even Leviticus 20:9.
You mean those commands that the Bible explicitly says don't apply to Christians, because the former regulation has been set aside?

 BS. Your god does not relieve Christians of  their duty  of carrying out his commands under any circumstances .  Common sense  and the common law of the land does that... thankfully. 

 Jesus himself commands that we are to obey gods/his commands not mans. You know this is fact.  If it isn't then you have a fkn great problem with those verses you keep posting don't you?  Because they  would contradict what god Jesus  himself commands. 

 
Romans 13:1-2.  Let everyone be subject to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. 2 Consequently, whoever rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves.


 You see. It is easily done to pull out a supporting verse and one that is clearly relevant to my argument and contradictory to those that you believe support your own argument.

 And lets not forget  Acts 5:29  “We must obey God rather than human beings!

 And lets not also for get , that,  as you clearly state above "According to Christianity, Jesus is God" #58



#63
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@Mopac
context is everything Stephen.

Christians  are not commanded to kill all the butt lovers. Don't worry, you are safe...

...for now.

MMMMMYYY,    we  are annoyed aren't we.  Ad hominem, and you call me childish.  hahahhahahahhah

 

#64
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@Theweakeredge

therefore anything they commanded would be similar to a mob boss commanding their goons, to say: murder

 But it doesn't say anything like that does it? 

If you start moving away from what is actually written then is all you are doing is giving the apologists more room to maneuver their god, their scriptures and themselves into  the realms of false respectability. 

They don't need your in help explaining away these ambiguous unreliable  scriptures.  They are good at lying about them all by themselves. 





#65
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@Theweakeredge
Or he was lying, as all prophets did, which was my point. 

 Which ones and what did they lie about? 
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#66
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@Stephen
What did prophets lie about? Hearing a god, blah, blah, blah, and I frankly don't care what apologists or the bible says, the bible gives god moral authority, but in reality she has none. Therefore it is not ane execution just because god commands it. An execution is a just killing by the state.
#67
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@Stephen
"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.Matthew 5:17 Jesus changed no law and he made that clear.    And he didn't relieve anyone of their duty towards god commands either especially Christians! 
I already explained how you're taking that out of context. Reasserting your original claim without addressing my refutation is not a sound method of argumentation.
That is exactly what you are doing.
No. I provided clear evidence from Scripture to back my case. Again, you are merely reasserting your original claim without addressing my refutation.
Are we to ignore then what peter says?  Acts 5:29  “We must obey God rather than human beings"!
No, and nothing I said remotely implies that.
Then why single out  these deaths for homosexuality  from other deaths for  sins inherited.
Because homosexuality is apparently serious enough to warrant that.
 Is all you are doing is attempting - with irrelevant verses - to defend the indefeasible.
No. Furthermore, in order for something to even require a defense, there has to some argument attacking that. You haven't presented any. You're simply presuming it's wrong a priori without justification.
BS. Your god does not relieve Christians of  their duty  of carrying out his commands under any circumstances .
Scripture very clearly states that the former regulation, the law, has been set aside. You can ignore that, shout about it, insult me over it, whatever you like, but you can't change that fact. The Levitical Law does not apply to Christians, and Scripture makes that very clear.
 Jesus himself commands that we are to obey gods/his commands not mans. You know this is fact.  If it isn't then you have a fkn great problem with those verses you keep posting don't you?  Because they  would contradict what god Jesus  himself commands. 
It doesn't give me any problems whatsoever. Firstly, Jesus did not say what you're trying to make Him say. You took those verses out of context, and you simply ignored it when I proved that. Secondly, the entire Bible is God's word, not just the text in red.
Romans 13:1-2.  Let everyone be subject to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. 2 Consequently, whoever rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves.


 You see. It is easily done to pull out a supporting verse and one that is clearly relevant to my argument and contradictory to those that you believe support your own argument.
If you'd read even one or two verses further, you'd know that the authority mentioned in that passage is the government and the passage is about paying taxes and rebelling against the government, so that really doesn't have anything to do with the topic at hand. In fact, you can even see that in the verses you quoted: "the governing authorities."
And lets not forget  Acts 5:29  “We must obey God rather than human beings!

 And lets not also for get , that,  as you clearly state above "According to Christianity, Jesus is God" #58
The entire Bible is God's word, not just the text in red. You can choose to ignore that, but you'll be arguing against a religion I don't believe in (i.e. a version of Christianity in which only the text in red is God's word).
#68
Stephen
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@Theweakeredge

Or he was lying, as all prophets did, which was my point. 
 Which ones and what did they lie about? 



What did prophets lie about? Hearing a god, blah, blah, blah,

Not very helpful. Which prophets were lying and what do they say they were hearing, did they say they heard god tell them to execute homosexuals?  


and I frankly don't care what apologists or the bible says,
Then why the Fk are you here whining and whinging and crying  about god wanting you dead etc etc. FFS man or woman, if your going to start a thread about your fkn hangups with what god says about you and or homosexuals then have the decency to engage. 


the bible gives god moral authority,


 Yes the bible does, This would be the  the book that the Reverend Tradesecrete says "cannot cause anything". The book that was "breathed"  in existence by god himself, by all accounts


but in reality she has none.

 well there are a few million Christians will give you an argument there.



 Therefore it is not ane execution just because god commands it. An execution is a just killing by the state.

  It is as someone has explained already.  If your found guilty of  the  behaviour that is an "Abomination" to god - which you are by  your own silly self confession ( ask a good religious defence  lawyer here  #20) then you will be sentenced to death and killed by the state under gods commandment, in those ancient times. But lucky for you,  you are saved . But not because the lord god Jesus has  changed  his mind as some will have you believe,( god never changes his mind according to Christians) no, it is because  we now  have had a reformation and have commonsense and common law .
#69
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@Theweakeredge
Never. Humans are the only reasons why death and suffering is associated with Christianity. God was a merciful and perfect god, who did not kill in vein
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#70
Theweakeredge
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@Vader
Uuuuh.......... 

"when God called forth his people out of slavery in Egypt and back to the land of their forefathers, he directed them to kill all the Canaanite clans who were living in the land (Deut. 7.1-2; 20.16-18).  The destruction was to be complete: every man, woman, and child was to be killed. "

#71
FLRW
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@Vader
However, you must not let any living thing survive among the cities of these people the Lord your God is giving you as an inheritance. You must completely destroy them – the Hethite, Amorite, Canaanite, Perizzite, Hivite, and Jebusite …. (Deut. 20:16-18)
#72
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@FLRW
@Theweakeredge
Lol I love when people site the old testament versus new testament books. Also many Christians see Deutronomy as questionable. But ok then.
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#73
Theweakeredge
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@Stephen
Or he was lying, as all prophets did, which was my point.  (Me)
 Which ones and what did they lie about? (You)
What did prophets lie about? Hearing a god, blah, blah, blah, (Me)
Not very helpful. Which prophets were lying and what do they say they were hearing, did they say they heard god tell them to execute homosexuals?  (you)

Each and every single prophet who claimed to have heard god's voice, see god, or interact with her at all. They were all obviously lying to not mentally capable at the time they claimed they did so


and I frankly don't care what apologists or the bible says,
Then why the Fk are you here whining and whinging and crying  about god wanting you dead etc etc. FFS man or woman, if your going to start a thread about your fkn hangups with what god says about you and or homosexuals then have the decency to engage. 
Whining? I'm asking a question and only a handful of people are actually answering my question. I was genuinely interested in what people would say and how they would justify it. Also, not just me, are you not concerned with the turn America straight again things that have been going on for a while now? Literally, advocating to kill gay people? This is not about me, this is about gay people in general, making it about me was solely to smoke responses out. 


the bible gives god moral authority,
 Yes the bible does, This would be the  the book that the Reverend Tradesecrete says "cannot cause anything". The book that was "breathed"  in existence by god himself, by all accounts
First of all, this phrase is only sensical in context with the rest of my sentence, instead of being a jerk and trying to isolate things like it would make it counter to the point, you actually take things into context. The comparison is that the bible gives god moral authority but does not justify it beyond, "I am god and I created you" and all of that.


but in reality she has none.
 well there are a few million Christians will give you an argument there.
So? They will have to make a valid argument before I care. Why don't you? If you want to point this out, unless its semantic, and you really don't have one.


 Therefore it is not ane execution just because god commands it. An execution is a just killing by the state.
  It is as someone has explained already.  If your found guilty of  the  behaviour that is an "Abomination" to god - which you are by  your own silly self confession ( ask a good religious defence  lawyer here  #20) then you will be sentenced to death and killed by the state under gods commandment, in those ancient times. But lucky for you,  you are saved . But not because the lord god Jesus has  changed  his mind as some will have you believe,( god never changes his mind according to Christians) no, it is because  we now  have had a reformation and have commonsense and common law .
Let's break this down shall we:

If your found guilty of  the  behaviour that is an "Abomination" to god - which you are by  your own silly self confession
Except here - god is both deciding if I am innocent or guilty while simultaneously acting as a judge where you are assuming she has authority that not been demonstrated. Also, by my own silly confession? What does that mean? Am I supposed to lie about being gay? Do you think I should be ashamed of being gay? I can't tell if you're unreasonable or homophobic, both I guess.


( ask a good religious defence  lawyer here  #20)
The problem there is an assumed authority, which no one has demonstrated thus far.


then you will be sentenced to death and killed by the state under gods commandment, in those ancient times. But lucky for you,  you are saved
So? If I don't recognize the state's authority to execute then it doesn't matter, not to mention that god is the foundation of their laws there, in both cases it's still not execution.


But not because the lord god Jesus has  changed  his mind as some will have you believe,( god never changes his mind according to Christians) no, it is because  we now  have had a reformation and have commonsense and common law .
Common sense and common law? Those aren't really good phrases to counter the supposed divine authority of god. Honestly half of your rebuttal is confusing nonsense which you seem to get from fallacious reasoning and logical flaws.
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#74
Theweakeredge
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@Vader
Are they not valid? That's where the 10 commandments come from? Why are those verses any less valid than the verses declaring those 10 commandments, or any other story that is located in the old testament?
#75
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@Stephen
I know, it must be sad for you that we aren't the monsters you wish we were.

It might be the case that your bigotry is unfounded.


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#76
Theweakeredge
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@Mopac
Which I disagree with by the way, even if anybody said yes, I wouldn't have thought you monsters. I have a very simple reason for that, this isn't really about me, it's really about the case of moral authority, unfortunately, I've only gotten it down to there with one person. As for bigotry, I am very justified in trying to fight against that: https://www.facebook.com/events/2267709136662741/
#77
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@Mopac
@Tradesecret




Mopac, the RUNAWAY from Jesus' true words,


YOUR RUNAWAY QUOTE IN POST #15: "I don't take bible lessons from heretics."

The membership can readily see that you do not know the Bible like you "thought you knew," where you and the equally dumbfounded Tradesecret are in the same boat!
Forget about Jesus and I completely owning your biblical ignorance, and therefore no more assumed Bible lessons but only questions, okay? Can you do this for Jesus, whereas He says that YOU are to defend the faith, remember?  Or are you going to let Jesus down once again with your RUNAWAY status from my questions regarding His words?


You are to defend the faith, NOT run away from it, says Jesus the Christ!

"We destroy arguments and every lofty opinion raised against the knowledge of God, and take every thought captive to obey Christ," (2 Corinthians 10:5) 

"He must hold firm to the trustworthy word as taught, so that he may be able to give instruction in sound doctrine and also to rebuke those who contradict it." (Titus 1:9)


No Bible lessons, but only your opinion upon the following Biblical FACTS:

QUESTION #1:  Mopac, how do you truly feel in Jesus stating that homosexuals should be put to death, and that this biblical axiom is to be followed today as Jesus so states in His Sermon on the Mount?  (Leviticus 20:13 and Romans 1:26-27)

QUESTION #2:   How do you feel when Jesus' word says that you are to obey Him, and not Man's laws? "  “But Peter and the apostles answered, “We must obey God rather than men.” (Acts 5:29).   Example: Jesus says homosexuals should be killed, but man's laws says they shouldn't, get it?

Question #3:   How do you feel in biblically knowing that you have to be a Jew in order to follow and become a disciple of Jesus, therefore, what Jewish sect are you? 

JESUS STATED: “He answered, "I was sent ONLY to the lost sheep of Israel.” (Matthew 15:24) Get it? Jesus was only interested in people of his Jewish heritage, and not others.
JESUS STATED: "a people for his own possession (JEWS), above all peoples on the face of the earth" (Deut. 7:6)  Jesus is for Jews only!

The few above of many questions to you is a good start for you, okay?  Thanking you in advance and hopefully the membership doesn't have to see another one of your lame Satanic excuses to RUN AWAY from simple Biblical axioms, like your cohort in Satanic crime, Tradesecret does!



.









QUESTION #2:  Mopac, are you taking Tradesecrets school in how to be a dumbfounded pseudo-christian and to try and get away with it through Satanic apologetics? Huh?

#78
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@Theweakeredge
Perverts don't have any moral authority. 

In fact, if pervert lobbies keep focusing their efforts on corrupting children, it may not be too long before our society stops tolerating them all together.



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#79
Theweakeredge
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@Mopac
I'm legitimately confused, do you mean the people doing the make America straight again people? Because I would agree, but it still a valid example of bigotry
#80
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@Theweakeredge
Look, I don't know about this group or this rally.

But I will say this. If the perverts don't go back into the closet, they are eventually going to lose the privledges society has given them. People are going to draw the line with their children. You can't go around luring children into sleazery, getting them to think they are the opposite sex trapped in the wrong body, and filling their heads with all sorts of perversion that they are too immature to process without some kind of push back.



#81
Mopac
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Number one reason for rejecting God according to the top 5 threads on this forum...


#82
Elminster
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@Theweakeredge
Depends on if you find someone who reads scripture literally. Apologetics would say the type of God you are referring to was put to rest when Christ died for our sins. The God of the old testament that is. 

The Bible itself is more of an outline and more often than not, it's taken way to literally


#83
Mopac
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@Elminster
The God of the Old Testament is the same God as the God of The New Testament.

To say otherwise is definitely not the orthodox opinion. 
#84
Elminster
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@Mopac
It depends on how you look at it. Sure, the nature of God doesn't change but the God you see in the old testament is the opposite side of the coin of the one you see in the new. From a theological point of view when Christ died he took the sins of humanity on himself. So when people read scriptures out of context, it's very easy to frame it as 

"God kills all gays" (for example)

God obviously is still the same person but his anger was quelled when Christ died (at least until judgement). From there it is whether you are a textualist or you take the bible as non literal. 



#85
Mopac
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@Elminster
The Orthodox Catholic Church is the rightful interpreter of scripture, and the guardian of the true faith.

Apart from the life of The Church, scripture is always out of context.



#86
Elminster
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@Theweakeredge
The short of it is due to the nature of God he would never "command" a christian to kill you. He would deliver justice in judgement. 

I think this is more of a question of "can a homosexual get into heaven"

If they are a practicing homosexual and are embracing it with no desire to change, then biblically the answer is no you can't 

If they are a homosexual who is repented and trying to change but still fall short and acknowledge that it's sin, then yes. 

#87
Elminster
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@Mopac
I would disagree with that. I don't think there is a perfect way to interpret text. Hermeneutics is typically the best way to approach it but as proven through history, that is constantly changing. 

Evolution use to be considered nom biblical as preached by the church. 

#88
Mopac
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@Elminster
There is One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church.


The opinion you are expressing is certainly not the teaching of The Church.
#89
Elminster
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@Mopac
Agree to disagree 
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#90
Theweakeredge
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@Elminster
Which would still be a problem, having to "repent" to someone with no moral authority for something that isn't actually immoral. That's still a bad thing, ignoring the fact that Jesus says contradicting things about the old laws. My point is - most people look at the 10 commandments and say that they are rules needed to be followed, regardless if god forgives you of them or not, why are any of the other rules not included in this treatment? Why is it only the 10 commandments that are like this? Arbitrary cherry picking