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@Vader
I would advise against giving any further information about your role.
Riddle Mafia - Day Phase 1
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OK, I know of THREE lynch activated roles. Are we in some bastard lynchrole game?
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@MisterChris
Having anything?
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@Lunatic
This whole thing feels like your scum game.
If you think he is SCUM and he is obviously looking for a lynch, why do want to lynch him? I think he is obviously lying and obviously a PR (Bearman's Rule of Pie) but Pie is usually more risk adverse when playing scum. .
It's not about whether I think he is scum, my arguments thus far about about pointing out all the utility in testing his claim.
If he is saulas, or hunter, his motivations make sense as town. We still need to lynch him, if he is hunter he wants to use his role. If he is saulus, it helps to have him win with town early and a cop can potentially verify him. If he isn't lynched and is saulus he just will look guilty on a cop report and we made no progress and wasted an investigation.
- If we lynch a HUNTER DP1 then Pie is way, way more likely to kill TOWN than SCUM- doubling our losses
- If we lynch a SAULUS, we make a third (fouth?) SCUM. Maybe we have COP who might catch this but then we reveal the COP and maybe they have RB.
- If we lynch a JESTER we lose- but you don't seem to care too much about that.
I think we should be avoiding a lynch of Pie DP1. For some reason, Luna's urgency feels like a SCUM gambit.
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@Vader
Is the thing that happens to you when you are dead beneficial to town? Would you advocate for us to lynch you?
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@Vader
I must again recommend that you not reveal anything about your role that could in any way be useful to scum.
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@oromagi
This whole thing feels like your scum game.
Imagine oromagi scum reading me in literally every game, even the ones where the mod confirms me on the first page. Super surprising lol.
- If we lynch a HUNTER DP1 then Pie is way, way more likely to kill TOWN than SCUM- doubling our losses
I don't dis-agree, but that isn't a good reason not to test the claim. If I were scum, it's still not a gamble I'd be willing to take though. Not just me, any scum. No scum should want to gamble with a hunter.
- If we lynch a SAULUS, we make a third (fouth?) SCUM. Maybe we have COP who might catch this but then we reveal the COP and maybe they have RB.
Lynching a saulus makes a townie. Saulus starts as scum, it was the role I had in the last game. I was also never going to be tested, and could have scum sided easily. Only got lynched because I wanted to town side and told town to lynch me in dp4.
This logic your applying would apply to a Judas. However even then, the cop doesn't have to out his results until pie is likely to be lynched, and the potential for mafia to roleblock cop np1 would be pretty low. Low enough that its a ridiculous argument against trying to test him.
- If we lynch a JESTER we lose- but you don't seem to care too much about that
If the game continues after the jester lynch, no I don't care. I have always thought third party easy win roles are retarded, it's why in speed's game where I was lyncher I said the same multiple times, and townsided even after losing. The game is about fun, easy roles like jester and lyncher need to be modified severely to be balanced correctly. If danielle actually put a jester in the game where the game ends after one is lynched, she is kind of shooting herself in the foot there. I could care less, on to the next one. Likely the game will continue though if we lose to a jester.
I think we should be avoiding a lynch of Pie DP1. For some reason, Luna's urgency feels like a SCUM gambit.
None of your above points are an argument against lynching pie. Please help me understand.
I'm only testing Pie because I am toss up in this game about his role. If Danielle purposely made roles to match a person, it would lead me to believe that Pie town considering if Greyparrot is telling the truth. There is a possibility he is scum and I'm not gonna rule it out. I have no say on how Danielle mods since I've only been in 1 DDO game where I had no idea WTF I was doing that entire time and can only vaguely remember live mafia games.
Vote Count
Pie (Intelligence, Supa, Lunatic, Greyparrot, SirAnon) -- 5/6 votes
Hamburgler (Pie, Speedrace) -- 2/6 votes
Lunatic (Hamburgler) -- 1/6 votes
Misterchris, Magic, oromagi
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@ILikePie5
@Speedrace
@MisterChris
@LikeMagic
need one more for the hammer guys.
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@Lunatic
Why do you keep referring to his role as lynchproof? It is allegedly deathproof.
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@Vader
can I have your reads?
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@Lunatic
Can I have your top town reads first please?
All right, well I'm going to out my role for TOWN's consideration.
I am SUPER SAINT. I kill whoever hammers me.
So I know of
one TOWN role that kills on hammer + Pie is begging to be hammered
Just thinking about game balance, the other hammer role is far more likely to be SCUM. Trouble.
TOWN should find someone else to lynch and VIG Pie at the earliest opportunity.
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@LikeMagic
Why do you keep referring to his role as lynchproof? It is allegedly deathproof.
potato patato
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@oromagi
All right, well I'm going to out my role for TOWN's consideration.I am SUPER SAINT. I kill whoever hammers me.So I know ofone TOWN role that kills on hammer + Pie is begging to be hammeredJust thinking about game balance, the other hammer role is far more likely to be SCUM. Trouble.TOWN should find someone else to lynch and VIG Pie at the earliest opportunity.
None of this changes the need to lynch pie. It just erases the possibility he is hunter.
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@oromagi
The anti-town utility of your role seems consistent with the riddle clue. Which if your claim is true seems to give some validity to the riddle being authentic. Good to know.
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@LikeMagic
That's good to know. I wouldn't have thought of that.
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@LikeMagic
Can I have your top town reads first please?
Mikal, greyparrot, and tenatively speedrace are my town reads right now.
Mikal for reasons stated earlier, grey is acting the same as he was in the last game we played in where he was town. Speedrace, because of him revealing the mod confirmation thing.
I slightly town read you if you see eye to eye on the pie thing.
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@oromagi
TOWN should find someone else to lynch and VIG Pie at the earliest opportunity.
That assumes there's a vig.
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@LikeMagic
LYNCHPROOF is an interesting possibility that TUF is failing to mention
Use & Balance
Scum Lynchproof are almost impossible to wipe out without the help of a Vigilante or the like. You'll need to include multiple, redundant killing roles (or some sort of mechanic for non-elimination-based kills) if you want to be able to fit a scum Prince player in the game.
Scum Lynchproof are almost impossible to wipe out without the help of a Vigilante or the like. You'll need to include multiple, redundant killing roles (or some sort of mechanic for non-elimination-based kills) if you want to be able to fit a scum Prince player in the game.
A consequence of this is that a failure to eliminate a player tends to confirm them as town unless there's a strong setup-based or flavour-based reason to suspect otherwise. As such, the role can be compared to Innocent Child, another role which never realistically gets eliminated, but is much weaker because town will have to waste a day to confirm the elimination immunity.
Play Advice
As Town, remember that there are consequences to attempts to eliminate you; the wasted day can be a real issue, so you don't really have license to play scummily or gambit (like you would with Innocent Child). In fact, the role might even be harmful (for the same reason that Quitter can be useful); your lack of flip will deny the town information. That said, you may well end up obviously town based on setup speculation anyway.
(If you're actually scum, the same reasoning should give a huge head start to your attempts to analyse the setup.)
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@LikeMagic
Speed is scummy
Sir leans town
Mikal seems like town IMO
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The rest is circumstantial
If Pie is town then Grey is probs town
If Speed is scum I have an FoS on you
If Pie is scum I think Grey is scum
Sir leans town
Mikal seems like town IMO
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The rest is circumstantial
If Pie is town then Grey is probs town
If Speed is scum I have an FoS on you
If Pie is scum I think Grey is scum
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@SirAnonymous
What are your top town reads?
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@LikeMagic
I think scum could Grey and Pie and right now that's my most feasible choice.
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@SirAnonymous
-->@oromagiTOWN should find someone else to lynch and VIG Pie at the earliest opportunity.That assumes there's a vig.
which we can't assume but what do you think about the argument that hammering Pie is more likely to be bad news than good news?
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@oromagi
LYNCHPROOF is an interesting possibility that TUF is failing to mention
I've mentioned scum lynchproof multiple times, though I'd assume it is 1x over perma. If the vig dies then the game is unwinnable.
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@LikeMagic
Lunatic, because of the riddle.
Greyparrot, because he didn't start with a role, and I don't think Danielle would do that to scum. Also, his play seems town.
If I had to pick a third, probably oromagi. I don't see scum claiming that role.
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@Vader
What's the reasoning behind your conditional reads?
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@Vader
If Pie is town then Grey is probs town
why?
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@oromagi
which we can't assume but what do you think about the argument that hammering Pie is more likely to be bad news than good news?
I think it's mostly speculative. If he's a jester, Judas, or hunter, it's bad news. If he's anything else, it's either good news or neutral.