What, exactly, is your basis for believing that the Bible is True? Cannot use "because the Bible says so" in your answer, since any religion would be true by that standard.
Is the Bible True?
Posts
Total:
39
-->
@Jarrett_Ludolph
What, exactly, is your basis for believing that the Bible is True? Cannot use "because the Bible says so" in your answer, since any religion would be true by that standard.
just for the sake of clarity, how many religions religious books ACTUALLY say they are the WORDS OF GOD?
And please don't guess - provide the number and even one quote from each religious book confirming it is the case.
-->
@Tradesecret
I usually don't respond to comments on my forum since I use the forums to ask questions, and not to debate. However, since you want clarification, I shall provide. It's also important to note that you didn't give me a reason to believe that the bible is the word of God.
The Quran says that it's the word of God, saying:
And there is no living creature on earth but depends for its sustenance on God; and He knows its time-limit [on earth] and its resting-place [after death]: all [this] is laid down in [His] clear book[1]
Next the Torah, since the Torah is the first five books of the old testament [2] we can use any verses from there.
"If you will not observe and obey all the words of this Torah that are written in this book, so that you will fear this glorious and awesome name, ADONAI your God; 59 then ADONAI will strike down you and your descendants with extraordinary plagues and severe sicknesses(deuteronomy) 28: 58-59"[3]
This clearly states that The Torah is God's book, since obeying the Torah is obeying God
For obvious reasons, it would be too impractical to show every religious text that claims to be the word of God, so I just used two that are common and easy to look up verses in. So to answer your question, at least two others
[1]
[2]
[3]
-->
@Jarrett_Ludolph
-->@Jarrett_Ludolph wrote : What, exactly, is your basis for believing that the Bible is True? Cannot use "because the Bible says so" in your answer, since any religion would be true by that standard.
The Reverend Tradesecret, replied with a question of his/her own. Why they ever think that this somehow answer the original question always escapes me.
Tradesecret wrote: just for the sake of clarity, how many religions religious books ACTUALLY say they are the WORDS OF GOD?
This is a typical response from those that allege to be "qualified" in such matters , such as the Reverend Tradesecrete who claims to be both a ", Pastor & Chaplin" #20
-->
@Jarrett_Ludolph
The Bible is a collection of honorable, but still primitive, legends which are nevertheless pretty childish. Oh, I didn't say that, Albert Einstein did.
-->
@Jarrett_Ludolph
I usually don't respond to comments on my forum since I use the forums to ask questions, and not to debate. However, since you want clarification, I shall provide. It's also important to note that you didn't give me a reason to believe that the bible is the word of God.
No I have not yet. I intend too - but I just wanted clarification in relation to the assumptions within your question.
The Quran says that it's the word of God, saying:And there is no living creature on earth but depends for its sustenance on God; and He knows its time-limit [on earth] and its resting-place [after death]: all [this] is laid down in [His] clear book[1]
Thanks for providing that reference. I am not persuaded that translation is the best translation nor that it is declaring that the Quran is the Word of God. It certainly is not declaring itself to be the Word of God.
Next the Torah, since the Torah is the first five books of the old testament [2] we can use any verses from there."If you will not observe and obey all the words of this Torah that are written in this book, so that you will fear this glorious and awesome name, ADONAI your God; 59 then ADONAI will strike down you and your descendants with extraordinary plagues and severe sicknesses(deuteronomy) 28: 58-59"[3]This clearly states that The Torah is God's book, since obeying the Torah is obeying God
The Torah is the Christian's OT - we would have no issue with this at all.
For obvious reasons, it would be too impractical to show every religious text that claims to be the word of God, so I just used two that are common and easy to look up verses in. So to answer your question, at least two others[1][2][3]
The reason I asked for clarity is because I take the view that it is actually very rare for any scriptural book apart from the Bible - both OT and NT which declares it is the bible and the word of God.
I was taking issue with your assumption that Christians could not use the argument that they believe the bible to be true because it says so. I actually think it is part of the reason - not the only reason of course, but part of the reason why people can trust it is the Word of God. IF it did not convey this vital piece of information it would tend towards saying God has not written his words for us to read and understand. Hence, why I asked you to clarify which so called religious books actually declare quite clearly that they are the Words of God.
I think the reason which is obvious why you have not provided others is because there are so few religious books which actually declare this, it surprised you. In fact I would not be surprised that you could not find any other except the two you found - one which is actually the BIBLE anyway and the second which is so vague that it could mean anything and does not specifically say it is God's word.
As for why I believe the Bible to be the Word of God. One is: it declares itself to be. Two: the Holy Spirit has convinced me. Three: it's internal and consistent evidence. Four: the external evidence verifying its authenticity. Fifthly, tradition. Sixthly, the authority of the Church. Seventhly, logic and reason. Eighthly, experience. Ninthly, the lack of evidence that it is not.
Now for the record I am not of necessity by your opening question required to prove any of these points - which I don't feel the need to do since you asked only for the "Basis of my belief". And as such I have provided the basis of my belief.
-->
@Tradesecret
I can accept your answer.
But as for this comment right here:
I think the reason which is obvious why you have not provided others is because there are so few religious books which actually declare this, it surprised you. In fact I would not be surprised that you could not find any other except the two you found - one which is actually the BIBLE anyway and the second which is so vague that it could mean anything and does not specifically say it is God's word.
No, it's really because they were the easiest to get, without starting a debate, I will state that what you said was false, since you cannot read my mind, with all do respect.
-->
@Jarrett_Ludolph
Fair enough I am unable to read your mind. I retract my comments about your motives.
12 days later
Is the Bible True? What, exactly, is your basis for believing that the Bible is True?
Amoung others, this....
Jhn 7:16 - Jesus answered, “My teaching is not my own. It comes from the one who sent me.
Jhn 7:17 - Anyone who chooses to do the will of God will find out whether my teaching comes from God or whether I speak on my own.
I found out.
-->
@ethang5
? What, exactly, is your basis for believing that the Bible is True?Amoung others, this....Jhn 7:16 - Jesus answered, “My teaching is not my own. It comes from the one who sent me.Jhn 7:17 - Anyone who chooses to do the will of God will find out whether my teaching comes from God or whether I speak on my own.I found out.
You say this like it was a great revelation to you that had somehow changed your life.
How does what you believe happened to you prove the bible to be true? Just agreeing within it in no way proves the bible to be true.
-->
@Stephen
will find out whether my teaching comes from God
I found out His teaching comes from God. It therefore follows that the bible is true.
-->
@ethang5
will find out whether my teaching comes from GodI found out His teaching comes from God.
How? Did you see and speak with god? No one has seen god according to scriptures John 1:18 but that too is contradicted by other verses, isn't it. here>>>Genesis 32:30 "I saw God face to face."
So did you hear voices in your head, is this how it was all revealed to you?
It therefore follows that the bible is true.
No. Just because you say " you found out", hasn't and doesn't prove a damn thing.
What makes you believe that you have found out anything? Where did you find it out, who or what revealed it to you ? Did this supposed revelation change your life?
-->
@Stephen
will find out whether my teaching comes from God
I found out His teaching comes from God.
How?
Read the text. Anyone who chooses to do the will of God will find out whether my teaching comes from God.
No. Just because you say " you found out", hasn't and doesn't prove a damn thing
Doesn't it depend on WHAT I found out?
What makes you believe that you have found out anything? Where did you find it out, who or what revealed it to you ? Did this supposed revelation change your life?
Irrelevant to the OP's question. He asked what makes me believe the bible is true. Jesus said that if I choose to do the will of God, I would find out whether His words were true. I found out. That is what makes me believe the bible is true. What part about that bugs you?
-->
@ethang5
will find out whether my teaching comes from GodI found out His teaching comes from God.
Yes , you keep saying. I don't believe you because you haven't show any proof, Ethang5
How?Read the text. Anyone who chooses to do the will of God will find out whether my teaching comes from God.
What text and from where? Was it from just those two biblical verses that you mentioned above ? Or are there other parts of the bible that caused you too realise the bible was true?
No. Just because you say " you found out", hasn't and doesn't prove a damn thingDoesn't it depend on WHAT I found out?
But haven't you told us already what you have "found out" here >>>>>>>>>>>> " I found out His teaching comes from God. "#11 ethang5
But haven't said from where or from whom or when you "found out", have you? You keep avoiding that part.
What makes you believe that you have found out anything? Where did you find it out, who or what revealed it to you ? Did this supposed revelation change your life?Irrelevant to the OP's question. [....................] Jesus said that if I choose to do the will of God, I would find out whether His words were true.
What is the will of god? And do you now live by at all times the word of god?
I found out.
Yes you keep saying but haven't gotten around to proving it?
That is what makes me believe the bible is true.
I have already pointed out to you that simply saying I found out ` something` doesn't mean that you have proven the bible to be true.
What part about that bugs you?
None of it. I find what you have said above extremely fascinating. I really do.
-->
@Stephen
What part about that bugs you?
None of it.
Then why do you think I need to prove anything to you?
I find what you have said above extremely fascinating. I really do.
That is Christian doctrine 101. You are supposed to be an expert on it no?
-->
@ethang5
None of it.Then why do you think I need to prove anything to you?
You made a claim. You haven't supported your won claims. It is a baseless claim made only from what only you believe you heard , seen or read. It is a totally unsupported claim.
You were asked it the bible true? You have said two verses from the bible convinced you the bible was true. This goes nowhere in proving the bible is true.
YOU HAVEN'T PROVEN THE BIBLE IS TRUE!!!!
I find it interesting that you say that you read the bible and just two verses caused you to believe it was all true.
Yes indeed, the bible that is only a book and "can't cause anything" according to the Pastor and Chaplin Tradesecrete #3 "The Bible is a book. It can't cause anything" .
YET here you are, an example to the contrary and after just two short verses from the bible, fully converted and preaching and teaching to others and telling the world about how great your god is and how much he loves us and defending him and his words to the hilt.
Marvelous how magical a few words in a book can be isn't it, Ethang5 ?
Yet you still haven't proven your claim.
-->
@Stephen
You made a claim. You haven't supported your won claims. It is a baseless claim made only from what only you believe you heard , seen or read. It is a totally unsupported claim.
Why do you think I need to prove it to you?
You were asked it the bible true?
I was asked, "What, exactly, is your basis for believing that the Bible is True?"
I gave my basis. I see no reason I need to "prove" my basis to you. You overestimate the importance of your opinion to me. I don't really care if you believe me.
Do you know of a reason I should?
Marvelous how magical a few words in a book can be isn't it, Ethang5 ?
You may not know it, but literature is a multi-billion dollar industry, and all those magical movies start out as words in books. I guess its too late for you to become a reader, what with your reading comprehension issues and all.
-->
@ethang5
God is truer than all of his creations and so that the bible must be truer than anything else that what the God made true.
-->
@Jarrett_Ludolph
What the bible is true because it is here and we are here so it must be true.
-->
@Tradesecret
There i only one bible and it is true because it is the word of god.
-->
@FLRW
You said what Albet Einstein did was childish but he was an adult and adults read the bible.
-->
@Utanity
There i only one bible and it is true because it is the word of god.
????
-->
@Tradesecret
Thank you for youre reply but it did not come out very well.
-->
@Utanity
Thank you for youre reply but it did not come out very well.
I wrote ?????.
What part about that did not come out well.
I am sorry. I was asking you to unpack what you wrote.
-->
@Tradesecret
Your whole question didnt come out so you must be lying because all there was was just question marks. But what I wrote is very right. The bible is true because it is the word of God and if you don't believe that then you are not true to God.
-->
@Jarrett_Ludolph
My answer is precisely the process James describes in James 1: 2-8, which describes a sequence of tasks, the result of which, if applied with sincere intent to know, will have a response to a more generic question: "How do I know anything is true?" I refer you, as well, to a similar set of verses in the Book of Mormon, Moroni 10: 4-5, which describes the exact same process with a little more detail, such as that the search for truth is wide open, just not in understanding the truth of the Bible.
My short version: If you want to know if the Word of God is true, ask Him, not me, or anyone else. It's a matter of personal revelation. What? Heaven is closed? And who, pray tell, told God that He no longer speaks? An idiot, that's who. Better that he should not have have opened his mouth. An idiot who really does not want more than has already been given is already lost. Let him find himself. Most don't even try to find out if what's given is true, so why would they want more? Who said there was an end of what there is to know? The same idiot.
-->
@ethang5
You made a claim. You haven't supported your won claims. It is a baseless claim made only from what only you believe you heard , seen or read. It is a totally unsupported claim.Why do you think I need to prove it to you?
OK. So if I make a claim any claim about anything are you going to accept my claim without any supporting evidence or proof?
You were asked it the bible true?I was asked, "What, exactly, is your basis for believing that the Bible is True?" I gave my basis.
You was also told that you couldn't use "because the Bible says so". But that didn't stop you telling us that it was verses in the bible
to believe it was true. Which, to my own delight, you did by quoting two verses from the bible that tell you us caused you to "find out" it is true.
I see no reason I need to "prove" my basis to you.Do you know of a reason I should?
Yes, you have made an unsupported claim. You demand poof from others when none has been provided, indeed you have in the past had the nerve and told people to prove your own claims!!!!
Marvelous how magical a few words in a book can be isn't it, Ethang5 ?You may not know it, but literature is a multi-billion dollar industry, and all those magical movies start out as words in books.
Oh and I agree with you totally. I know very well, Ethang5 . I can't say the same the reverend Pastor and Chaplin friend who made the stupidest claim in the history of claim making when s/he told us that the bible is only a book AND "can't cause anything". And her being a lawyer too,!!! that deals in words for a living! You couldn't make this shite up could you?
Here you are right from the Reverends mouth >>> "The Bible is a book. It can't cause anything",#3
Yet here you are, telling us that just 40 words out of the 783,137 in the bible, caused you to "find out" the bible was all true.
Here you go, just in case you forget the words from the bible that caused you to believe it was true>>
Is the Bible True? What, exactly, is your basis for believing that the Bible is True?Amoung others, this....Jhn 7:16 - Jesus answered, “My teaching is not my own. It comes from the one who sent me.Jhn 7:17 - Anyone who chooses to do the will of God will find out whether my teaching comes from God or whether I speak on my own.I found out.
-->
@Stephen
OK. So if I make a claim any claim about anything are you going to accept my claim without any supporting evidence or proof?
No. But I would not think that you owe me proof. You can give proof if you want, or not give it if you don't want. I've told you I don't really care what you believe. I was answering someone else's question about why I believed something when you barged in demanding "proof" of what I believe. I need offer you no "proof" of why I believe something, and asking for proof of a belief is kinda silly.
You was also told that you couldn't use "because the Bible says so". But that didn't stop you telling us that it was verses in the bible to believe it was true. Which, to my own delight, you did by quoting two verses from the bible that tell you us caused you to "find out" it is true
The verses told me what to do in order to find out if the words were true. I did it and found out the bible is true. Had I done it and not found out, I would have concluded the bible is not true. All you need is to read more slowly and take off the bias glasses.
I see no reason I need to "prove" my basis to you. Do you know of a reason I should?
Yes, you have made an unsupported claim.
How does that obligate me to you? My claim is about why I believe something. I do not need to "prove to you why I believe things. You either accept or reject my reason. Either way, I don't really care cause I'm not seeking your approval.
Oh and I agree with you totally.
Then your attempt at sarcasm was silly. You seem to have a problem with TS. I'm the wrong person to tell it to as I think TS is superior to you in just about every way that matters. Either way, I don't care. I'm talking to you, let's keep the focus between us and our positions on the topic.
Here you are right from the Reverends mouth...
I don't know what this has to do with you or me. Stay on topic.
Yet here you are, telling us that just 40 words out of the 783,137 in the bible, caused you to "find out" the bible was all true.
Reading comprehension Stephen. Finding out that I got exactly what the words told me I would get if I followed their directions proved to me that they were true. Calm down and think a little. Why should my personal belief throw you into a lather?
You made a claim. You haven't supported your won claims. It is a baseless claim made only from what only you believe you heard , seen or read. It is a totally unsupported claim.Why do you think I need to prove it to you?OK. So if I make a claim any claim about anything are you going to accept my claim without any supporting evidence or proof?No.
How hypocritical. But hypocrisy doesn't effect you bloody minded Christians one bit does it? And neither do your own use of double standards.
You was also told that you couldn't use "because the Bible says so". But that didn't stop you telling us that it was verses in the bible to believe it was true. Which, to my own delight, you did by quoting two verses from the bible that tell you us caused you to "find out" it is trueThe verses told me what to do in order to find out if the words were true. I did it and found out the bible is true. Had I done it and not found out, I would have concluded the bible is not true. All you need is to read more slowly and take off the bias glasses.
The verse told you !!!!!!!? what to do!!!!!!!!!!!!!? and you did it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!? However did simply words cause you to do that?
And
Here you are right from the Reverends mouth...I don't know what this has to do with you or me. Stay on topic.
Its all very on topic ethang5 and you have blown your best buddies stupid statements CLEEEEEEEEEAN out of the water.
And here again, admitting that "WORDS TOLD YOU" something. that WORDS And that WORDS driected you somwhere
Yet here you are, telling us that just 40 words out of the 783,137 in the bible, caused you to "find out" the bible was all true.Finding out that I got exactly what the words told me I would get if I followed their directions proved to me that they were true.
Calm down
Never been calmer princess. Those capitals are for emphasis only. just so everyone get the message , especially you!
-->
@Utanity
Your whole question didnt come out so you must be lying because all there was was just question marks. But what I wrote is very right. The bible is true because it is the word of God and if you don't believe that then you are not true to God.
LOL! I only wrote question marks so it is not a lie.
What you wrote is your opinion and you are very entitled to hold that position.
I simply wanted you to unpack what you were saying - to make it understandable to those reading it.
Try:
The Bible is true because it is the Word of God.
and then:
if you don't believe that then you are not true to God.
Just to make you think - do you believe the bible is the word of God or do you believe Jesus is the word of God?
And also - what does it mean to be true to God?