Atheists, stop nitpicking the bible ridiculously; theists, stop interpreting the Bible so literally.

Author: Intelligence_06

Posts

Total: 41
Topic's author
#1
Intelligence_06
Intelligence_06's avatar
Debates: 172
Posts: 3,946
5
8
11
Intelligence_06's avatar
Intelligence_06
5
8
11
I did the coronavirus test in the nearby clinic. As I am not in the country that my passport is registered in, I would need to send my results to the embassy and wait for the result. That being said, it is a difficult journey. I have not been active for full hours one because of sleep but also because of days of traveling in 1-hr trips between my house and the clinic.

The embassy has a "rule", in which the coronavirus test must be submitted there within 12 hours of the result being undisclosed. My parents got it with an easy procedure, but I would have to have something more difficult in order to just get my result.

When I am back, it is already over 12 hours since the result is clear. I tried to submit the result out of desperation, and the embassy verified the result despite it is outside of the 12 hour range.

What does this tell us? Rules sometimes just make you better, it is not 100% black and white.

For example, the Bible tell us to not have sex before marriage, not watch pornography, and not commit adultery. With common sense, of course, you could do those, but they could potentially make you less loyal in a commited relationship, which makes you a less trustworthy person.

For another example, the Bible tells us not to eat shrimp or pork, but that is just because they have yet to have a procedure to make them as clean as other kinds of food, and since the Bible is basically an engraved book, it could not live long enough to see when the FDA can make pork and shrimp as healthy and clean. In other words, at the time the bible is written, those foods are unclean, which, if you eat it, will make you sick, thus live a subpar life.

Another example is that swearing or insulting is bad. It is? Yes, but saying "fuck" one time probably won't land you in hell immediately. The more you swear, the harder it is to people to approach you in a polite manner, which would mean you will live a life without companions. There are rationalities of All things in Theism, some of them outdated, but all of them could be considered at the time they were written with at least an indirect reason.

So BrotherDT, stop interpreting the Bible so literally that when we just eat a kind of food we would go to hell.

So Radical atheists, stop nitpicking the Bible with those rules, you guys have much better stuff to do.
Topic's author
#2
Intelligence_06
Intelligence_06's avatar
Debates: 172
Posts: 3,946
5
8
11
Intelligence_06's avatar
Intelligence_06
5
8
11
-->
@Barney
@Tradesecret
@Speedrace
@Dr.Franklin
@SirAnonymous
What are the theists' opinions on this?
Topic's author
#3
Intelligence_06
Intelligence_06's avatar
Debates: 172
Posts: 3,946
5
8
11
Intelligence_06's avatar
Intelligence_06
5
8
11
-->
@SkepticalOne
@David
@oromagi
@seldiora
@BearMan
What are the non-theists' view on this?
Topic's author
#4
Intelligence_06
Intelligence_06's avatar
Debates: 172
Posts: 3,946
5
8
11
Intelligence_06's avatar
Intelligence_06
5
8
11
-->
@BrotherDThomas
Criticize what ye will. You can bring this to the hot topics.
#5
Speedrace
Speedrace's avatar
Debates: 63
Posts: 6,283
4
9
11
Speedrace's avatar
Speedrace
4
9
11
-->
@Intelligence_06
That's what all modern Christians do lol. I don't curse but I know tons of Christians who do and that doesn't mean they're going to hell. Jesus made Christianity not about strict rule following
#6
Speedrace
Speedrace's avatar
Debates: 63
Posts: 6,283
4
9
11
Speedrace's avatar
Speedrace
4
9
11
-->
@Intelligence_06
Did you get corona?
#7
Speedrace
Speedrace's avatar
Debates: 63
Posts: 6,283
4
9
11
Speedrace's avatar
Speedrace
4
9
11
-->
@SirAnonymous
Wait you're a Christian (or in another religion)?
Topic's author
#8
Intelligence_06
Intelligence_06's avatar
Debates: 172
Posts: 3,946
5
8
11
Intelligence_06's avatar
Intelligence_06
5
8
11
-->
@Speedrace
Thank you for agreeing with me rationally. I am Covid-negative. That being said, Coronavirus does not transmit through internet, so no worries.
#9
Speedrace
Speedrace's avatar
Debates: 63
Posts: 6,283
4
9
11
Speedrace's avatar
Speedrace
4
9
11
-->
@Intelligence_06
That being said, Coronavirus does not transmit through internet, so no worries.
Lol, glad you're ok
Topic's author
#10
Intelligence_06
Intelligence_06's avatar
Debates: 172
Posts: 3,946
5
8
11
Intelligence_06's avatar
Intelligence_06
5
8
11
-->
@Speedrace
By no means I am saying all theists are like that. When my teacher said "Students, stop bullying each other", She clearly accuses not of non-bullies.
#11
Speedrace
Speedrace's avatar
Debates: 63
Posts: 6,283
4
9
11
Speedrace's avatar
Speedrace
4
9
11
-->
@Intelligence_06
By no means I am saying all theists are like that. When my teacher said "Students, stop bullying each other", She clearly accuses not of non-bullies.
huh?
Topic's author
#12
Intelligence_06
Intelligence_06's avatar
Debates: 172
Posts: 3,946
5
8
11
Intelligence_06's avatar
Intelligence_06
5
8
11
-->
@Speedrace
Oh nah, I shouldn't have tagged you. There shouldn't have been any.
#13
SirAnonymous
SirAnonymous's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 4,140
3
7
10
SirAnonymous's avatar
SirAnonymous
3
7
10
-->
@Speedrace
Wait you're a Christian (or in another religion)?
Yes, I'm a Christian.
#14
BearMan
BearMan's avatar
Debates: 16
Posts: 1,067
3
4
11
BearMan's avatar
BearMan
3
4
11
Agree.
#15
oromagi
oromagi's avatar
Debates: 117
Posts: 8,696
8
10
11
oromagi's avatar
oromagi
8
10
11
-->
@Intelligence_06
I read BrotherD as satire and not at all a literal interpreter of scripture.
Topic's author
#16
Intelligence_06
Intelligence_06's avatar
Debates: 172
Posts: 3,946
5
8
11
Intelligence_06's avatar
Intelligence_06
5
8
11
-->
@oromagi
Well he is not gonna drop that creasy attitude any time soon. Wondering what he will say about this one. If he still keep it up then he is probably the pseudo-christian by interpreting the bible so literally at the point where it is irrational.
#17
SirAnonymous
SirAnonymous's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 4,140
3
7
10
SirAnonymous's avatar
SirAnonymous
3
7
10
-->
@Intelligence_06
My thoughts on this are that you're half right and half wrong, at least so far as Christianity goes. There are white and black rules in Christianity. There are some things that are always wrong. Murder would be an example of that. At the same time, Christianity is not a works-based religion. You cannot save yourself by following a list of rules. We are flawed people. No matter how hard we try to do right, we will still do things that are wrong. That is why Jesus took our punishment upon Himself, so that we don't have to pay the price. By trusting in Him, we can receive that salvation. That leads me to where you are right. Because of God's redemption, our sins no longer count against us. So no, we won't go to hell if we break God's laws. That doesn't mean that we should break them or that we have a free pass to break them (see Romans 6 on this topic). However, it does mean that you're right that we won't go to hell if we swear or steal or whatever. If you trust in God, He will forgive you for those things.

TL;DR: You're wrong that there aren't any black and white rules. You're right that breaking those rules isn't going to doom us to hell, if - and that's an important if - we have received God's salvation.
#18
SirAnonymous
SirAnonymous's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 4,140
3
7
10
SirAnonymous's avatar
SirAnonymous
3
7
10
-->
@oromagi
I read BrotherD as satire and not at all a literal interpreter of scripture.
Definitely. He's actually pretty funny if you read him that way.
#19
SkepticalOne
SkepticalOne's avatar
Debates: 9
Posts: 1,720
3
3
7
SkepticalOne's avatar
SkepticalOne
3
3
7
-->
@Intelligence_06
Get some sleep. Good luck on your test results.



Topic's author
#20
Intelligence_06
Intelligence_06's avatar
Debates: 172
Posts: 3,946
5
8
11
Intelligence_06's avatar
Intelligence_06
5
8
11
-->
@SkepticalOne
It is 1:48 PM here. I ain't sleeping middle of the noon.
#21
seldiora
seldiora's avatar
Debates: 158
Posts: 352
2
6
10
seldiora's avatar
seldiora
2
6
10
hmmm... it really all depends how strongly the Christian believes in the rule and follows it. It's up to interpretation. Most of the time, the Christian rules of life are meant to help in their quality of living, but some beliefs are outdated.
#22
Lemming
Lemming's avatar
Debates: 7
Posts: 3,346
4
4
10
Lemming's avatar
Lemming
4
4
10
-->
@Intelligence_06
I agree with the first post, but I'd imagine vaguely, that antitheists tend to have motivations, that are going to keep them sticking with their argument and pursuit.
Whether because of childhood trauma,
Truth seekers,
Some form of utilitarianism,
First time considering the question,
Annoying religious family members and religious acquaintances,
Fit's their hobby of outrage and protest,
Or just have a bent for it, same as some people have a bent for baseball.
Well, also antitheists who want to improve people's lives and society I suppose, and believe religion is a harms people and society.
#23
Tradesecret
Tradesecret's avatar
Debates: 2
Posts: 3,436
3
2
6
Tradesecret's avatar
Tradesecret
3
2
6
-->
@Intelligence_06
I did the coronavirus test in the nearby clinic. As I am not in the country that my passport is registered in, I would need to send my results to the embassy and wait for the result. That being said, it is a difficult journey. I have not been active for full hours one because of sleep but also because of days of traveling in 1-hr trips between my house and the clinic.

The embassy has a "rule", in which the coronavirus test must be submitted there within 12 hours of the result being undisclosed. My parents got it with an easy procedure, but I would have to have something more difficult in order to just get my result.

When I am back, it is already over 12 hours since the result is clear. I tried to submit the result out of desperation, and the embassy verified the result despite it is outside of the 12 hour range.

What does this tell us? Rules sometimes just make you better, it is not 100% black and white.
Hi Intelligence_06

I think most people have a strange understanding of the bible.  It is not about rules - yes there are many rules in it - but predominantly, it is about living in a loyal relationship with God, the maker of the heavens and the earth. 

I often say "Jesus did walk on the water, but every other time he took the boat".   This is a good principle - which says to me that sometimes things need to be done in an extraordinary way - (or there are exceptions) but mostly there are normal and ordinary ways of doing things. I think rules are helpful. They make things more orderly - but like Jesus meant in relation to the Sabbath - is the rule going to help man or break man? The good Samaritan Parable is a wonderful example. It shows that love - and care and compassion is more important than the literal interpretation of the law.  In that parable two religious folk bi-passed helping a wounded man because they took the view that God cared more for rule keeping than for compassion.  They feared God - but in a way that was detrimental to loving God and loving others.  The Samaritan who eventually helped the wounded man had pity and compassion despite probably not knowing any of the religious rules.  When we love others - we love God - this is the point of what Jesus says in Matthew 25:34 ff.  


For example, the Bible tell us to not have sex before marriage, not watch pornography, and not commit adultery. With common sense, of course, you could do those, but they could potentially make you less loyal in a commited relationship, which makes you a less trustworthy person.
Interesting example and curious implication.  I actually take the view that it would make you more committed to your relationship and more trustworthy.  In fact I am unable to see the logic of how it would make you less committed and less trustworthy. Perhaps you could walk us through the logic.  

For another example, the Bible tells us not to eat shrimp or pork, but that is just because they have yet to have a procedure to make them as clean as other kinds of food, and since the Bible is basically an engraved book, it could not live long enough to see when the FDA can make pork and shrimp as healthy and clean. In other words, at the time the bible is written, those foods are unclean, which, if you eat it, will make you sick, thus live a subpar life.
This was an OT law based on the clean / unclean principle. Nothing to do with hygiene.  It was about spiritual cleanness - and was based on the curse of the ground from Genesis.  A cursory look at the various animals and birds will see that very often - the distinction between the two had to with the type of feet covering they had.  The ground was cursed from the Time of Adam. When Jesus arrived - he reversed this part of the curse - clean v unclean distinction disappeared.  Hence why Peter had a vision which said the law had been fulfilled in Christ - not abolished - but it mean "Believers could eat pork and Gentiles could be believers. 

Another example is that swearing or insulting is bad. It is? Yes, but saying "fuck" one time probably won't land you in hell immediately. The more you swear, the harder it is to people to approach you in a polite manner, which would mean you will live a life without companions. There are rationalities of All things in Theism, some of them outdated, but all of them could be considered at the time they were written with at least an indirect reason.
The bible does not condone swearing for a number of reasons - one is that swearing in the OT and even the NT had in the first place - a demonstrated loyalty to another God - this is what swearing is about mostly - when we swear on the bible - we say we will tell the truth because we are loyal to God and may God judge us if we don't . Insulting others - such as calling them idiots or whatsoever - is attacking the image of God.  But it is not a way of showing love to each other.  

You are probably correct - swearing will probably not land in Hell immediately. It is sinful though. And sin has an inevitable implication.  And either we deal with it personally or we have someone else deal with it. Christians use their lawyer. Their advocate whose name is Jesus. Everyone else either ignores it or tries to deal with themselves.  

I hope you get your test result soon - and that it shows that you are negative. Or else I hope you are young enough to be able to bear the complications of Covid-19.  I tend to agree with you - rules are rules - but there are exceptions. And there are overriding principles of love - and compassion. Yet even these are not absolute. As anyone knows a judge can only show so much mercy and compassion towards a criminal - who refuses to learn to do good. Sin is however for most of us a recidivist activity.  Sometimes the only way is to ultimately snuff them out. 





#24
Crocodile
Crocodile's avatar
Debates: 22
Posts: 1,156
3
4
10
Crocodile's avatar
Crocodile
3
4
10
BrotherDTHomas is satirical.
Topic's author
#25
Intelligence_06
Intelligence_06's avatar
Debates: 172
Posts: 3,946
5
8
11
Intelligence_06's avatar
Intelligence_06
5
8
11
-->
@Tradesecret
All results are negative, I am healthy
Topic's author
#26
Intelligence_06
Intelligence_06's avatar
Debates: 172
Posts: 3,946
5
8
11
Intelligence_06's avatar
Intelligence_06
5
8
11
Page 2 yipeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
#27
SkepticalOne
SkepticalOne's avatar
Debates: 9
Posts: 1,720
3
3
7
SkepticalOne's avatar
SkepticalOne
3
3
7
-->
@Intelligence_06
Let's get to something interesting:

1. Are atheists REALLy nitpicking..or pointing out what requires little interpretation? 
2. Are theists REALLY interpreting the Bible too literally...how do you know?

#28
Lemming
Lemming's avatar
Debates: 7
Posts: 3,346
4
4
10
Lemming's avatar
Lemming
4
4
10
-->
@SkepticalOne
1. Are atheists REALLy nitpicking..or pointing out what requires little interpretation? 
2. Are theists REALLY interpreting the Bible too literally...how do you know?
'Some of them. But both terms atheist and theist, encompass such large groupings, it can't 'quite be applied. Except in reference to those 'some of them.
#29
SkepticalOne
SkepticalOne's avatar
Debates: 9
Posts: 1,720
3
3
7
SkepticalOne's avatar
SkepticalOne
3
3
7
-->
@Lemming
1. Are atheists REALLy nitpicking..or pointing out what requires little interpretation? 
2. Are theists REALLY interpreting the Bible too literally...how do you know?
'Some of them. But both terms atheist and theist, encompass such large groupings, it can't 'quite be applied. Except in reference to those 'some of them.

Seems pedantic to me, but, sure *some*atheists and *some* theists as applicable. Does that get us closer to an answer?
#30
Lemming
Lemming's avatar
Debates: 7
Posts: 3,346
4
4
10
Lemming's avatar
Lemming
4
4
10
-->
@SkepticalOne
Depending on context, yes, I'm thinking.