Morality - Is Atheism More Reasonable than Theism?

Sex is inherent function.

And marriage is evolved but unnecessary/necessary conceptual non-sense/sense.....Based upon factors other than the necessities of sexual function

And this is 2022, and people still keep teaching 2000 year old biblical BS....One of the drawbacks of highly evolved systems of memory and manipulation.

All good fun I suppose.

Especially if next doors missus is up for it.

Just watch out for piously perverted stone throwers though.........They're just repressed and jealous and can only get their kicks from throwing stones at women.....Because her indoors is pregnant yet again, or has just generally let herself go, as it were.

Call me cynical if you like.

Haven't read the whole thread so don't know if you're a fellow cynic, religious nutter or just a moderate sort of questioning type person.

As ever.....GOD principle sound.....Floaty about bloke not so.

i thought "morality" is supposed to be objective and never changes

Abraham had multiple wives

not to mention King David

and King Solomon

Yes, the question of polygamy is an interesting one in that most people today view polygamy as immoral while the Bible nowhere explicitly condemns it. The first instance of polygamy/bigamy in the Bible was that of Lamech in Genesis 4:19: “Lamech married two women.” Several prominent men in the Old Testament were polygamists. Abraham, Jacob, David, Solomon, and others all had multiple wives. Solomon had 700 wives and 300 concubines (essentially wives of a lower status), according to 1 Kings 11:3. What are we to do with these instances of polygamy in the Old Testament?

“Sex is inherent function.”

It has a different meaning for many people and for some it’s not meaningful at all. It can express love, lust, power, validation, fulfilling a desire and with it can come a lot of baggage…heartbreak regret, sickness, violence, pain. For a Christian like myself I believe in the Biblical reasons for it. If ya believe it’s just for sexual pleasure then people are just objects for gratification. I believe God created sex for the pleasure of a married couple, man and woman. Sex then is about the relationship between the couple who    
God says becomes one in a covenant marriage. He created the male and female body to work together physically and to procreate. All this mirrors Christ and the Church.

“And this is 2022, and people still keep teaching 2000 year old biblical BS....One of the drawbacks of highly evolved systems of memory and manipulation.’

Gods Word never changes. Does not matter if it was when Christ lived on earth or today. Any marriage other than that of a woman and man who are equally yoked is outside Gods commandment. Christians who walk with Christ are not of this World, they are with Christ. What the world says about morality is not Gods commandments and we are to follow God not society.  

“Call me cynical if you like.”

I don’t know you and have no idea what your worldview is all about. Do you think you look at this in a cynical way? From what I have read I do believe your post is sincere, that you might be searching for answers.  

“Haven't read the whole thread so don't know if you're a fellow cynic, religious nutter or just a moderate sort of questioning type person.”

I have been called a lot of things in my life, some good, some bad. I am a believer in Christ Jesus and with that comes hatred from any people. It’s ok. Jesus said that he was hated by some and that his followers would also be hated for standing with Him. 

“Yes, the question of polygamy is an interesting one in that most people today view polygamy as immoral while the Bible nowhere explicitly condemns it. The first instance of polygamy/bigamy in the Bible was that of Lamech in Genesis 4:19: “Lamech married two women.” Several prominent men in the Old Testament were polygamists. Abraham, Jacob, David, Solomon, and others all had multiple wives. Solomon had 700 wives and 300 concubines (essentially wives of a lower status), according to 1 Kings 11:3. What are we to do with these instances of polygamy in the Old Testament?”


Polygamy is immoral and was not Gods design because it never represented the relationship between Christ and His bride…the Church. It was permitted by God in the Old Testament. It caused heartache for people and led them away from Him.  Ephesians 5:25-27

I believe at the time God allowed polygamy so that women were protected by a husband and not sent into slavery or prostitution. At that time it was difficult for women to support themselves as most were uneducated and untrained to do anything. The men in families stepped up to the plate to take care of their mothers, sisters etc. God told Adam and Eve to be fruitful and multiply. This also would happen faster if a husband had multiple wives. 

Monogamy was God plan starting in Genesis when he said that a man would leave his mother and father…marry and cleve to one wife. They should become one. At some point God restored back to monogamy. 

I just answered this question in the previous post. This was my post.

Polygamy is immoral and was not Gods design because it never represented the relationship between Christ and His bride…the Church. It was permitted by God in the Old Testament. It caused heartache for people and led them away from Him.  Ephesians 5:25-27

I believe at the time God allowed polygamy so that women were protected by a husband and not sent into slavery or prostitution. At that time it was difficult for women to support themselves as most were uneducated and untrained to do anything. The men in families stepped up to the plate to take care of their mothers, sisters etc. God told Adam and Eve to be fruitful and multiply. This also would happen faster if a husband had multiple wives. 

Monogamy was God plan starting in Genesis when he said that a man would leave his mother and father…marry and cleve to one wife. They should become one. At some point God restored back to monogamy. 

And the Bible is clear as to what sin is. His morality never changes. Every word of God proves true (Proverbs 30:5; John 17:17).

A. Sex is inherent function and GODS and marriage are separately contrived social concepts. And relative to the human ability to recall and manipulate, we came/come up with all sorts of other stuff too, including a diversity of recreational sexual activities..  And I do not accept anything as true, that is not already a fact. Belief is a bit of a silly and rather counterproductive word.

B. And it cannot be proven that a GOD said anything....The Bible/s were the words of people, compiled by people. So you might choose to believe, but this also proves nothing.

C. I would like to know answers for sure, but such answers do not lie in the pages of a much translated and transcribed book of 2000 year old Arabian folk tales. These at best should be regarded as naive hypotheses.

D. You won't get hatred from me, nor from most moderate people......How we are data programmed is more than likely what we will become ideologically, me and you both, and 7.9 billion other different versions. In terms of an emotional response "hatred" comes at the top of the scale, and is often glibly used out of context.

I think that it is quite clear that imdancin is no Einstein.

pretend they don't exist

Ye shall not round the corners of your heads, neither shalt thou mar the corners of thy beard.

Exactly. There is a huge disconnect between "true, fixed, unchanging point of reference" and the false, unfixed, and changing reference point provided by the Bible. The fact that slavery was codified in the OT (and never explicitly renounced) while modern Christians accept slavery as immoral speaks volumes of their 'objective/absolute morality'. 

Peter, I'm ready to move forward with that debate if you're available anytime in the near future.

“’Do not cut the hair at the sides of your head or clip off the edges of your beard."

“Do not trim off the hair on your temples or trim your beards."

"You shall not round off the hair on your temples or mar the edges of your beard."

"You must not cut off the hair at the sides of your head or clip off the edges of your beard."

"Ye shall not round the corners of your heads, neither shalt thou mar the corners of thy beard."

I'm not too familiar with, Leviticus, 'but,

The Bible is a bunch of books, and various purposes, I'd say.

Some is history, poetry, philosophical, ritual, some speaks of how the Jews back then structured their group to be set apart from the pagans about them, some of it are laws that people see as specifically related to people back then, some are laws that people believe still matter greatly today, some of the Bible says things like don't eat shellfish maybe because they often had parasites in that area/period I'm unsure, don't carelessly handle dead bodies and not wash yourself (Because dead bodies can be dangerous, disease and what).

I don't see the hair trimming as unreasonable, in context.

Why do some judges in the past wear wigs, would one then say because the law used to say they had to that anarchy is more reasonable than the law, because their old law books said they needed to wear wigs?

sure,

these rules did not ONLY apply to priests

and,

in modern times, christians like to claim "some rules are moral" and "some rules are ritual and or practical"

but, they have no biblical basis on which to make these fundamentally arbitrary claims

Myself I couldn't say what rules applied to priests or not,

Which rules it's reasonable to think applied then, not now,

Which are ritual, or moral, or moral by that time periods people,

I'd have to read and research a lot more than I care to.

I'd have to reread and think about the Bible and related writings, to have an opinion on what it might say about same sex people,

Though if a Theist or Theist brought up a 'single example, I'd probably find that easier to address, not asking for an example though.

The Bible says a lot of things, and was written by a bunch of different people, edited by a lot of different people,

Even if I was a Christian again, I'd have to take what it says with thought, reason, and research.

Though I'd argue Theism isn't 'solely based on the Bible,

i'm always willing to grant someone their AXIOMS

but you can't cherry-pick something when you claim it is the 110% truest purest word of your infallible god and "morality never changes"

Cherry picking is common of many, I'd think, regardless of religion.

People liking this or that constitutional bit of history, precedent, bit of logic in their head even if it contradicts some other bit of logic in their head.

I can understand disliking the claim of the Bible being perfect, given that it has various forms, and editions.

Without talking to the person making the claim, I don't know their reasons for their claim, myself.

trust me

i have lived my entire life surrounded by these types

and they just shrug it off

"it's obvious" they say

"if you don't see it, then you need to pray more" they say

Rules of the priesthood are man or church made. There is no priest rules in the Bible. 

Leviticus 21-22 ERV - Rules for Priests 

How do you account for Leviticus 21-22 ERV - Rules for Priests - The LORD said to - Bible Gateway then?

Old Testament and that would be for Rabbis, nothing in the New. There is a divide for a reason. If you want to discuss Christianity keep the Old Testament out of it.

What about the 10 Commandments?

Why even include the Old Testament, if it has no bearing on Christianity?

What about them they're for Jews. Jesus had two commandments again  you have to separate them, Christianity is not Judaism. It's my understanding the whole purpose of the stories in the Old Testament are to prove Christ's lineage. But almost nothing Christ taught is in the Old Testament. It was just basically Rome taking Jewish mythology to establish their pick as a son of God. 

I 'really don't think that's the way most of Christians view the Bible,

But maybe I'm mistaken.

Well that's why most Christians don't live their own religion. It's also why most couldn't tell you anything about the Nicaea  Council