Technology Mafia - Endgame

Author: Bullish

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Danielle
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If the mod says "no insults" at the start of the game, you should be allowed to mod kill for violating the rules. If the rules were not agreed upon by the player, it seems a lil bastard. I have no idea what the rules said (I probs should have looked that up, as I am known to get a lil too honest myself :p ). 

I'm glad the town won even though I barely got to play. I don't like the "town wasn't really active" on day phase 1 bit because I was prodding activity, but everyone refused to stop focusing on (whomever warren replaced - that1?) who turned out to be innocent. What a waste of time. We could have pressured more people for claims if/when the Skittles lynch wasn't going to happen -- instead everyone was obsessing over the inactive player. I agree with killing an inactive player if there is nowhere else to go, but the town didn't even try. That's my 0.02 cents. Maybe that wasa calculated effort on mafia's part and if so, good job. Supa I knew you were scum! Hmf. 

I have a good idea for three concept games. This theme (from what I saw) seemed pretty good compared to some others. Good game everyone. 
Speedrace
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@Danielle
Supa I knew you were scum! Hmf. 
Haha
Vader
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Also someone told me I am a bully because I went after BearMan in the endgame. I want to make something very clear

My experience with BearMan in mafia has been

---> Him making an attempt to doxx someone to expose their identity
---> Him conceding games because of a 1hr time extension
---> His inactivity plus lazy lynches

His NP actions were good, I am not denying that. But he has been a lazy player and him not waiting was lazy
Lunatic
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@Danielle
 I don't like the "town wasn't really active" on day phase 1 bit because I was prodding activity, but everyone refused to stop focusing on (whomever warren replaced - that1?) who turned out to be innocent. What a waste of time. We could have pressured more people for claims if/when the Skittles lynch wasn't going to happen -- instead everyone was obsessing over the inactive player.
Agreed. Let the mod replace the inactive, and if they don't get replaced by the next phase, it is more likely they are just lurking and then should be lynched.
Vader
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@Danielle
Supa I knew you were scum! Hmf. 
I thought you had a pregame role because of Bullish's lack of denial of pregame roles. One of the main reasons I wanted to kill you
Lunatic
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poor danielle is either lynched or killed early in every game she plays
ILikePie5
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I personally don’t care about name calling and insults. I had no problem with Supa calling me names. For all we know it could’ve been a legitimate mafia strategy to frustrate town and force them to mess up somehow creating a mislynch. 
BearMan
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@Vader
--> Him making an attempt to doxx someone to expose their identity
First of all, you don't got a clue at what actually happened. IP logging is not doxxing in any way shape or form.

---> Him conceding games because of a 1hr time extension
The scum team wanted to do it anyway.

---> His inactivity plus lazy lynches
I won, and they weren't lazy lynches.


BearMan
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@skittlez09
Essentially what is happening here is that expert mafia SupaDudz is critiquing my play that I didn't even hear skittlez's case. It was already our plan to lynch skittlez and I didn't really care about the justification he was giving as the neighborhood already agreed to do it. This would be the case if any single one of the people were alive. Pie would've done it, oromagi would've done it. I just happened to be the on kept alive.

We didn't need a case for skittlez because we wouldn't believe it anyway. I had a good solid group and they all agree to lynch skittlez. If skittlez wasn't mafia, oh well we've been played. I don't understand why SupaDudz really cares. Mafia wouldn't have had a chance if they didn't get invited into the neighborhood.


BearMan
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@Vader
Oh crap tagged wrong guy
ILikePie5
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@BearMan
Id say your night actions were spot on. Your reads allowed you to be spot on. You could be talked out of your reads which is the the only problem I saw which is why I said to lynch first.

Your play this game was probably best of any town this game in terms of Night Actions
Bullish
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@Lunatic
Excessive? I was literally warned about just one lol. Also what about supadudz? I don't think he should have been threatened for mod kill either, but he said much worse than I did lmao.
He didn't call someone a cunt. Talking shit about people's gameplay is fair, you're just insulting to insult.

This is 100% a you problem. It's recent too. You've played my games, we've played games together, I've never felt that you behaved out of line. And all of a sudden, several games in a row, you blow up on That1User, drafter blocks you, and you get modkilled. If you've got problems in real life don't bring it into a game.

Bear stopped responding to you after that comment. Intel called you out. It was clearly having an impact on my game, I had to at least issue a warning.

Also you didn't mention that in any rule prior to the game starting.
I keep the ruleset short because I've never had a game where someone I even felt the need to issue a warning to (other than inactivity). This is my ruleset: https://www.debate.org/forums/games/topic/45852/1#1830971

I was talking about the night with Magic and YYW. You were verbally against it when YYW started talking about RBG dying and Magic started to complain. I didn't even disagree with Mikal in the convo in your screenshot, and I didn't threaten to break rules and quit mafia because of the political talk policy we agreed to. Fact is YYW left because you and magic were against talking about RGB. I had to take mod action because I can't exactly leave a game I'm modding. Talking about politics is also completely different from insulting someone personally.

Why would I submit a night action when you told me I would be getting mod killed? You never responded to me, so it was clear I was getting mod killed, there was literally no point in submitting the action at that point
I didn't tell you I was modkilling you, I said you'd be modkilled if you continue to break the rules. You were the one who started the outside game talk. You were the one who literally told me you intend to break the rules "as a matter of principal." There's no excuse to respond to rule breaking by breaking more rules.
Bullish
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There was no pre-game action. The real reason for the delay between PMs and DP1 was so mafia could come up with fake claims. I just threw in "pre-game actions" as a generic reason.
Bullish
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@Speedrace
Mafia was tech typically associated with or used for bad things. The roles your enabler affected are marked in the OP.
BearMan
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If anything I should've been modkilled cuz I admit I was being excessive lol. I didn't think Lunatic was being obsessive.
Also BearMan is the one who conceded a mafia game because his scum buddy got lynched. It's a fair criticism to make
I disagree with the Lunatic modkill. It's perfectly fine to have bouts with other players. Nobody really cares, this isn't a site for three year olds.
Vader
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Essentially what is happening here is that expert mafia SupaDudz is critiquing my play that I didn't even hear skittlez's case.
Yep
It was already our plan to lynch skittlez and I didn't really care about the justification he was giving as the neighborhood already agreed to do it. This would be the case if any single one of the people were alive.
Again, you went into it with a blind assumption that he was scum. You had no evidence to suggests he was town besides him having more communication with you, which isn't indictive of scum play. You have to analyze the people, the claims, the behavior, and the defense. You also have to understand your role doesn't town confirm people at all. 
Pie would've done it, oromagi would've done it. I just happened to be the on kept alive.
They would've waited for both cases to be made before voting.

We didn't need a case for skittlez because we wouldn't believe it anyway. I had a good solid group and they all agree to lynch skittlez. If skittlez wasn't mafia, oh well we've been played. I don't understand why SupaDudz really cares. Mafia wouldn't have had a chance if they didn't get invited into the neighborhood.
Yes you do. Every needs a case and a defense lmao. You think someone who is falsely accused of murder can't have a case? That's bs. You need to analyze every option and hear skittlez defense. Yes skittlez just said "it ain't me," but that's his town play as well. You had all the time in the world too lynch

Bullish
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@BearMan
If you felt there was no need for the initial warning that's fine, but I can't compromise modkilling him for talking about the game in another thread cause that's a matter of game integrity.
Vader
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@BearMan
Tbh he was probably gonna make the case later on in the DP as well
Bullish
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@BearMan
In-game rules are stricter than site rules, because when you commit to a mafia game you're pretty much forced to interact with everyone there, whereas on the site you can just ignore or block someone.
Lunatic
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@Bullish
He didn't call someone a cunt. Talking shit about people's gameplay is fair, you're just insulting to insult.
Why is cunt worse than any other amount of swears lol? Supa was calling people retarded. No no no, bullish let's be honest here. This is a pride thing. I called you out on a sh1tty rule and that pissed you right off and you wanted to show how much of a hardass you are. 

This is 100% a you problem. It's recent too. You've played my games, we've played games together, I've never felt that you behaved out of line. And all of a sudden, several games in a row, you blow up on That1User, drafter blocks you, and you get modkilled. If you've got problems in real life don't bring it into a game.
It's not recent, I talk abrasively when I play mafia. Usually only after someone dishes it to me first. If someone can dish it, they can take it. Bear called me a sh1tty mafia player so I called him a cunt nugget, and we moved on. I interact with wylted the same way, he will call me an idiot or a retard, and I will cus him out too. Me and wylted don't dislike each other based on that exchange in the slightest, because were adults and it doesn't continue after that. And no this isn't new, I can site examples going back a year ago, to 8 years ago. I have a sailors mouth when I play, if you don't like that, that's fine. Let me know in advance and I won't sign up for a game with someone who has an issue with it. I told drafter the same thing in the last game. By the way the last game the interaction between me and drafter had nothing to do with insults. Drafter blocked me because he was sick of having the same pro longed argument we've had for a year, and also that was part of my scum strategy to earn town cred. If you are going to grasp for straws, at least do your research. That1user I appologized too, but I think I was justified in my anger to her because she outted our janitor claim without waiting for our permission. 

So yeah bullish, this is a YOU problem. You are the one threatening bans because of something YOU don't like. This is how I play, and seeing as how you apparently knew this is how I play, seeing as you cited two examples you didn't like, you should have said something to me about it before the game started so I wouldn't waste mine and your time.


Bear stopped responding to you after that comment. Intel called you out. It was clearly having an impact on my game, I had to at least issue a warning.
I stopped responding too after that lol. You are making it sound like I continued it unneccesarily, but the game moved forward fine and we secured a lynch. If people can dish it they can take it. If they are willing to move on, I am too. You trying to pin this all on me makes no sense. Bear himself has said multiple times he thinks a mod kill over that was ridiculous. I obviously don't have beef with him because I said he was a cunt nugget once. I think you are the snowflake here sir.

I keep the ruleset short because I've never had a game where someone I even felt the need to issue a warning to (other than inactivity). This is my ruleset:

You had to go back and find a ruleset from 5 years ago to post justify your ban lol. And still doesn't exclude supa from that. You could have just copied and pasted that in your sign ups thread.

I was talking about the night with Magic and YYW. You were verbally against it when YYW started talking about RBG dying and Magic started to complain. I didn't even disagree with Mikal in the convo in your screenshot, and I didn't threaten to break rules and quit mafia because of the political talk policy we agreed to. Fact is YYW left because you and magic were against talking about RGB. I had to take mod action because I can't exactly leave a game I'm modding. Talking about politics is also completely different from insulting someone personally.
I wasn't against YYW talking about it, I was trying to nip it in the butt before became an issue because Danielle told us Magic was feeling depressed over the death of RBG and she didn't want to talk about it. YYW obviously didn't know when he joined and instantly started talking about it. I wasn't telling him he shouldn't talk about it, I was trying to defuse a situation so we wouldn't lose two mafia players, both magic and YYW left after that. Magic came back after a bit. I actually agreed with YYW about the whole thing, we even talked about this when you brought it up last friday. No where did I threaten to ban anyone though over the issue. You trying to make me out to be a hypocrite is laughable.

I didn't tell you I was modkilling you, I said you'd be modkilled if you continue to break the rules. You were the one who started the outside game talk. You were the one who literally told me you intend to break the rules "as a matter of principal." There's no excuse to respond to rule breaking by breaking more rules.

The outside game talk thing is ridiculous btw, nothing I said was affiliation indicative lol. That was you just being salty that I dared defy your mod decision. I am saying why is there a point in submitting a night action if I am going to get modkilled anyway?
Lunatic
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@Bullish
Bullish, this is an ad populum argument, but the fact that almost every player even the "victim" here thinks the ban threat was ridiculous shows that this is a YOU problem.
Bullish
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Why is cunt worse than any other amount of swears lol? Supa was calling people retarded. No no no, bullish let's be honest here. This is a pride thing. I called you out on a sh1tty rule and that pissed you right off and you wanted to show how much of a hardass you are. 
I just explained to u why it's different, it's cause you insulted him personally rather than his game play.

This is also the 2nd time you brought up the pride thing. In all out discord convos what have I ever done that made you think I was prideful? After I lose a live game I don't say "I told you so" to the town and I don't blame my scumbuddies. You're projecting. The fact you go out of your way break more rules after I warned you is a prideful action.

It's not recent
yeah it is, or at least you've gotten worse. I've played many games with you over the years, never had a problem. I don't know exactly what went down in your PM with That1, and like you said you apologized, and for the record I was on YOUR side with the drafter thing. I expected you to say "cool" and move on, like the couple of other players I gave warnings to, but YOU can't swallow your pride.

In my last game Poker mafia, I gauged the player pool whether they wanted RM in or not, because RM had a history of negative influences in games. It makes no sense you keep calling me a "snowflake" because you didn't even insult me. Like I said to bearman mafia rules are stricter because the players committed to play and are forced in interact with eachother, unlike on the website in general. You have now had a negative streak in games and it's my job to nip it. All you had to do was not call other players cunt.

You had to go back and find a ruleset from 5 years ago to post justify your ban lol.
So? my rules haven't changed in 5 years and no one had broken them in 5 years.

I wasn't against YYW talking about it, I was trying to nip it in the butt
No, you were definitely against him talking about it, and he was specifically mad that he couldn't talk about it because of 1 other person. And the result was he left, then came back and agreed to not talk about politics.

The outside game talk thing is ridiculous btw, nothing I said was affiliation indicative lol
Doesn't matter. You don't talk about the game outside the game. What you said could also be meta analyzed to mean you and Bear weren't faking the argument. Nothing in Bear's neighborhood PM was alignment indicative, but there's a reason that's a role instead of just something everyone can do.
Lunatic
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@Bullish
I just explained to u why it's different, it's cause you insulted him personally rather than his game play.


Even if you discount "personal insults" towards the whole town, which he called idiotic multiple times, denying that supa insulted anyone is ridiculous. You just decided to be less offended by what he said haha.

This is also the 2nd time you brought up the pride thing. In all out discord convos what have I ever done that made you think I was prideful? After I lose a live game I don't say "I told you so" to the town and I don't blame my scumbuddies. You're projecting. The fact you go out of your way break more rules after I warned you is a prideful action.
Your pride being hurt is self evidenced by the fact that you are not responding to others calling you out for the same stuff, and for the fact that I've proven that others have "crossed the same line" that I supposedly did. More likely, you are pissed over the misunderstanding with the politics thing in the discord and are carrying it over here. You obviously have some hurt pride in regards to me, seeing as you brought up 3 things from other games to use as ammo. I just refuse to believe you are that much of an idiot, it makes more sense that this is personal lol. If you were trying to get under my skin, it didn't work though. My death ultimately contributed to towns win, so thankyou for being a bastard mod :)


yeah it is, or at least you've gotten worse. I've played many games with you over the years, never had a problem. I don't know exactly what went down in your PM with That1, and like you said you apologized, and for the record I was on YOUR side with the drafter thing. I expected you to say "cool" and move on, like the couple of other players I gave warnings to, but YOU can't swallow your pride.
Lmao I have not gotten worse, I have always been this way. If anything I am more tame than I used to be. Seriously, go through some of my old mafia games, especially the ones around 2013-2014. I was a HUGE asshole lol. Maybe you haven't played in as many games with me as  you think, but I am an aggressive asshole. I am that way in live mafia sometimes too, though not as much lately since I am modding more often than playing. Part of the main reason I like playing mafia is that you can be aggressive with people and clean slate it going into the next game.

In my last game Poker mafia, I gauged the player pool whether they wanted RM in or not, because RM had a history of negative influences in games. It makes no sense you keep calling me a "snowflake" because you didn't even insult me. Like I said to bearman mafia rules are stricter because the players committed to play and are forced in interact with eachother, unlike on the website in general. You have now had a negative streak in games and it's my job to nip it. All you had to do was not call other players cunt.
I am aggressive in most of the games I play in. If you or another player has a problem with that, they are more than free to tell me in advance I will respectfully not sign up in the same games as them. No one has mentioned to me that it's been a big enough problem yet, so it's a non issue. I even told the same thing to drafter, and he said:

If I didn't care what you had to say I wouldn't be responding to you, nor would I have unblocked you. Whatever happened in the game happened in the game.

Drafter realizes it was just a mafia game and doesn't hold on to the grudge lol. You using him as ammo makes no sense.

So? my rules haven't changed in 5 years and no one had broken them in 5 years.
So you expected everyone to refer to a list of rules you made for a game 5 years ago? What were we supposed to go looking for that on our own? lol

No, you were definitely against him talking about it, and he was specifically mad that he couldn't talk about it because of 1 other person. And the result was he left, then came back and agreed to not talk about politics.
Now you are just lying to spin your own narrative of events. I didn't kick him out of the discord, he left. I barely said anything at all, just more like "woah, let's be careful here" because I didn't want to lose two mafia players. If they wanted to continue talking about it I wouldn't have done anything about it. YYW left on his own accord.

Doesn't matter. You don't talk about the game outside the game. What you said could also be meta analyzed to mean you and Bear weren't faking the argument.
Most mods don't take this that seriously, you chose to do so because I was already on your sh1t list. In fact it's pretty common that dead players will communicate with the mafia after they die lately. It happens all the time. No other mod really cares if it doesn't effect the game. Meta arguments are sh1t, almost as bad as mod psychology. If someone wanted to use that, it's their own risk. Your mod intervention on the issue could have insinuated that bear was confirmed town after you mod killed me too. But no, the meta argument only works when it works in favor of your argument huh?
Bullish
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Even if you discount "personal insults" towards the whole town, which he called idiotic multiple times, denying that supa insulted anyone is ridiculous. You just decided to be less offended by what he said haha.
How many more times do I have to explain to you it's different to insulting game play and calling someone a cunt?

Your pride being hurt is self evidenced by the fact that you are not responding to others calling you out for the same stuff,
I have literally responded to them in this very thread.

Maybe you haven't played in as many games with me as  you think
Perhaps, but I'm honestly speaking to the fact my experience with you has never been this bad.

If I didn't care what you had to say I wouldn't be responding to you, nor would I have unblocked you. Whatever happened in the game happened in the game.
That doesn't contradict anything I said, as mod I care about what happens in the game, not what happens outside of it.

So you expected everyone to refer to a list of rules you made for a game 5 years ago?
No, it's the exact opposite, I don't expect anyone to refer to that ruleset. 5 years of no one breaking rules has lead me to believe they don't need to.

I barely said anything at all, just more like "woah, let's be careful here"
Our version of events are different then because I definitely remember you directly saying "no" to talking about politics.

Most mods don't take this that seriously, you chose to do so because I was already on your sh1t list.
That's wrong. You and Danielle are like the only players from when I first started playing on DDO, you've got history here and I have always respected you as a player, even back on DDO I some times deferred to you on mod actions and practices, and on DART I always ping you for my games. I have always been serious about game integrity. I always randomize roles unlike some mods on DDO and I've gotten into arguments with other mods over it.

Look, if you think my insults rule is stupid then ok, but I can't have you leaving this thinking I'm being prideful or have a vendetta against you.
Bullish
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@Lunatic
Look, if you think my insults rule is stupid then ok, but I can't have you leaving this thinking I'm being prideful or have a vendetta against you.
Refer to my first modded game on this site when I modkilled 2 players for inactivity.
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Part of the main reason I like playing mafia is that you can be aggressive with people and clean slate it going into the next game.
Fr me and Luna will really go at it and then DM each other or talk in the Endgame like nothing ever happened lol
Lunatic
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@Bullish
How many more times do I have to explain to you it's different to insulting game play and calling someone a cunt?
How is calling someone an idiot or a stupid ass not a personal insult?

I have literally responded to them in this very thread.
Chris, Speed, Danielle, supa, and pie all had dis-agreements with your decision too, you didn't mention anything to them. You only briefly responded to bearman lol.

Perhaps, but I'm honestly speaking to the fact my experience with you has never been this bad.
Probably because you haven't insulted me first. I only respond that way if someone throws the first punch. I rarely insult people, though but I am very aggressive and an asshole. Bearman threw the first punch, and I responded. He dropped it, I dropped it. It didn't have to be a big deal until you made it one.

That doesn't contradict anything I said, as mod I care about what happens in the game, not what happens outside of it.
The whole point is that you are using my asshole playstyle as if its detracting seriously from the game. You used drafterman as ammo, I am just showing you that drafterman himself doesn't take it to heart the same way bearman and wylted didn't. The only person who seems seriously offended here is you.

So you expected everyone to refer to a list of rules you made for a game 5 years ago?
No, it's the exact opposite, I don't expect anyone to refer to that ruleset. 5 years of no one breaking rules has lead me to believe they don't need to.
Then you should clarify again that this rule is a big rule since you modkilled over it. Modkilling is pretty sreious, it rarely happens these days even on serious offences. If this is such an important rule than you need to post it, bold it, and make it known that this is something you will take seriously. I wouldn't have wasted my time if I knew it was a rule. I will get mod killed in any game this is a rule, because that's how I play. I won't sign up for games if I know this in advance.

Our version of events are different then because I definitely remember you directly saying "no" to talking about politics.
Yes they are very different. I would never say that.

That's wrong. You and Danielle are like the only players from when I first started playing on DDO, you've got history here and I have always respected you as a player, even back on DDO I some times deferred to you on mod actions and practices, and on DART I always ping you for my games. I have always been serious about game integrity. I always randomize roles unlike some mods on DDO and I've gotten into arguments with other mods over it.

Look, if you think my insults rule is stupid then ok, but I can't have you leaving this thinking I'm being prideful or have a vendetta against you.
It's more of a recent vendetta, than an old one. If you think I was telling people that they shouldnt say whatever they want in my discord, which I didn't do, that justifies it.
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@Speedrace
It's the same with me, I've said multiple times on DDO "what happens in mafia stays in mafia," but not every player thinks like that. As mod in a community with a small player pool I'm trying to maximize player utility. I have a line, I issued a warning first, no one was offended in the end anyway, there shouldn't be drama.
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How is calling someone an idiot or a stupid ass not a personal insult?
Supa was speaking to gameplay in both those instances.

Chris, Speed, Danielle, supa, and pie all had dis-agreements with your decision too, you didn't mention anything to them. You only briefly responded to bearman lol.
Yeah they all had the same fundamental issue which I addressed to Bearman. For your insults I issued a warning, not a modkill. The modkill was for multiple reasons including that one, the chief reason being outside game talk.

Probably because you haven't insulted me first. I only respond that way if someone throws the first punch. I rarely insult people, though but I am very aggressive and an asshole. Bearman threw the first punch, and I responded. He dropped it, I dropped it. It didn't have to be a big deal until you made it one.
I'm also speaking to your interaction with other players. I read every post in every game I'm in and every game I mod, I've never had the reaction I had when I saw you call bear a cunt. It didn't have to be a big deal until you talked about the game in RM's thread. All you had to do was not call anybody a cunt.

Then you should clarify again that this rule is a big rule since you modkilled over it. Modkilling is pretty sreious, it rarely happens these days even on serious offences. If this is such an important rule than you need to post it, bold it, and make it known that this is something you will take seriously. I wouldn't have wasted my time if I knew it was a rule. I will get mod killed in any game this is a rule, because that's how I play. I won't sign up for games if I know this in advance.
ok that's fair

Yes they are very different. I would never say that.
Well it's my memory vs yours then, since there's no text record.

I'll believe you if you believe me when I say that I don't have a vendetta against you and would never let pride cloud my modding decisions.
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I try to have the same philosophy with mafia as well. I have lots of big mafia arguments with people I like the most on the site. Nothing happens out of it for the most part. However there are some times where people do the same thing or put me over the edge to which I carry something onto site