Does God command babies be smashed and their women ripped open?

Author: Tradesecret

Posts

Total: 6
Tradesecret
Tradesecret's avatar
Debates: 2
Posts: 3,436
3
2
6
Tradesecret's avatar
Tradesecret
3
2
6
It has been suggested that God, even Jesus,  commanded babies to be smashed to pieces and their woman ripped open. And the verse used to support this suggestion is Hosea 13:16

Which says: 


"Samaria shall bear her guilt, because she rebelled against her God; they shall fall by the sword; their little ones dashed in pieces, and their pregnant woman ripped open". (ESV) 

The question which needs to be explored is this verse evidence that God commanded babies to be smashed and woman ripped open?" And the answer is no. 

Is there a command within this verse? No. This is a verse in a context of a book by the OT prophet Hosea.  Hosea, like most of the OT prophets spoke by way of prophecies, and his language was one like a lawsuit by a complainant, God  against the defendant, Israel. In these lawsuits, the prophet would outline the charges and then outline the judgment that would come upon them - should the defendant not repent of their sins.  

In this particular verse, Hosea describes a punishment for the people of Samaria because of their rebellion against God. At the time, Samaria, like any other defendant has the right to confess their sins and throw themselves on the mercy of God.  What is interesting is it is not a commandment by God. In fact it is merely a warning. A warning of what will occur should they not repent.  God is putting Samaria on NOTICE - if you keep doing what you are doing, you will be harmed. 

Samaria of course did not want God's help.  Nor would they have asked God for help. They wanted to keep doing what they were doing - rebelling against God. And God despite their rebellion against him, still was warning them to come back to him. To repent of their sins - and to trust him. But they did not do this. They just became more and more rebellious - and turned their backs further and further away from God. Rejecting him completely- - they did not want his assistance and they thought that they did not need his help.  

When people do not want God's help, in fact if they insist that they hate God for all sorts of reasons, he is cruel they say and evil, is there any obligation on his part to assist them? If he did help them, would they be grateful or would this cause them to be even more resentful.  

In this scenario - just like other acts of judgment - God simply let them keep going - and doing what they wanted to do.  He took his hand of protection away from them. They did not want it anyway. He simply gave them what they wanted. So when armies - who go about conquering the world, like Babylon, Assyria, Greece, Egypt, etc come marching in too take over and abuse - and exploit - nations which by the way are not under the same obligations as Israel was under the law, then it stands to reason they will be devastated and destroyed. These horrible acts outlined by Hosea of what would happen to Samaria would have been prohibited if this was Israel attacking these people. Hence it is quite reasonable to assume that it was the enemies of God - with their own evil practices who would come in and lay siege to Samaria and kill the babies and pregnant woman. 

Evil pagan - non Godly nations seeking power and riches from poor nations. God in this prophecy was warning Samaria of the evil that comes from rebelling against him. The recklessness of not wanting God to help or assist them. They would reap what they had sown. 

So it is absolutely incorrect to suggest that God or Jesus commanded anyone to be ripped open and slaughtered. This verse actually reveals the reverse of that lie.  God warned them - but they just told him to Piss off.  And so he left them to defend themselves according to their wishes and desires.  
Stephen
Stephen's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 8,615
3
2
2
Stephen's avatar
Stephen
3
2
2
The question which needs to be explored is this verse evidence that God commanded babies to be smashed and woman ripped open?" And the answer is no. 

 I say you will be playing semantics before long. But try this for starters.



(1 Samuel) 15:3

3 Now go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy all that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys.’”

So while your chosen verse only indicates what maybe  god will  cause to happen, (1 Samuel) 15:3 looks like and reads like a direct command FROM GOD to kill "children and infants," to me. what about you?

We won't go into the sanctioning by god the murder of Jobs children where God boasts to Satan about Job's goodness, but Satan argues that Job is only good because God has blessed him abundantly. Satan challenges God that, if given permission to punish the man, Job will turn and curse God. Job 1:12 The LORD said to Satan, “Very well, then, everything he has is in your power",  and all ten children end up dead .

Or will we mention 

Psalm 137:9  "Blessed shall he be who takes your little ones  and dashes them against the rock!"

MisterChris
MisterChris's avatar
Debates: 45
Posts: 2,897
5
10
11
MisterChris's avatar
MisterChris
5
10
11
Seems like a normal Tuesday to me
Tradesecret
Tradesecret's avatar
Debates: 2
Posts: 3,436
3
2
6
Tradesecret's avatar
Tradesecret
3
2
6
-->
@Stephen


(1 Samuel) 15:3

3 Now go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy all that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys.’”

So while your chosen verse only indicates what maybe  god will  cause to happen, (1 Samuel) 15:3 looks like and reads like a direct command FROM GOD to kill "children and infants," to me. what about you?

We won't go into the sanctioning by god the murder of Jobs children where God boasts to Satan about Job's goodness, but Satan argues that Job is only good because God has blessed him abundantly. Satan challenges God that, if given permission to punish the man, Job will turn and curse God. Job 1:12 The LORD said to Satan, “Very well, then, everything he has is in your power",  and all ten children end up dead .

Or will we mention 

Psalm 137:9  "Blessed shall he be who takes your little ones  and dashes them against the rock!"
Hi Stephen,

Thanks for those verses. But let us keep to the topic at hand.  Do you take the view that Hosea 13:16 is an example of God commanding babies and women to be killed or ripped open? I actually intend to get to those other verses - but one passage at a time please.  And those other verses I will address in new topics. 




n8nrgmi
n8nrgmi's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 1,499
3
2
3
n8nrgmi's avatar
n8nrgmi
3
2
3
God promotes "dashing' infants, not "smashing" them.  see, i can play games with bible verses too!
secularmerlin
secularmerlin's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 7,093
3
3
3
secularmerlin's avatar
secularmerlin
3
3
3
-->
@Tradesecret
It would appear that the Yahweh is not actually commanding anything and also that the Yahweh would consider the ripping open and dashing against rocks in question to be just acts. I'm not sure that is particularly better and certainly does not paint a picture of the Yahweh's moral character that I would call positive.