People who Don't Wear Masks in a Pandemic are Absolute Morons

Author: BearMan

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@3RU7AL
If the Vietnam war was based on lies, they never would have forced thousands of Americans into foreign battlefields.

So, I'm guessing the Vietnam war MUST have been based on GODSHONESTTRUTH??

NEWS FLASH: "the government" doesn't give a sh*t about me or you.

I wasn't responding to you.

NEWS FLASH: The government is forced to care about its people, even though it truly doesn't give a sh*t


It's kind've obvious that you are ignoring the post with actual sources, and you are trying to salvage what is left of your demolished case.
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@BearMan
Once again, it took me one google search to find hundreds of results.









It is clear you know almost nothing about the topic at hand. All it takes is a google search to prove you wrong. And I know exactly what you're going to say. You will insult my sources whilst you have given absolutely NONE.
Pick ONE you can't just gish-gallop your way through this.

JUST READING THE HEADLINES =/= RESEARCH.
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@BearMan
It's kind've obvious that you are ignoring the post with actual sources, and you are trying to salvage what is left of your demolished case.
Rush to declare victory much?
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@3RU7AL
You told me to provide "mountains of research"?


They aren't headlines, three of them are from Universities.


NOT PROVIDING SOURCES=/= RESEARCH

NOT KNOWING ANYTHING ABOUT YOUR TOPIC=/= INTELLIGENCE

You can't debate without know stuff about your topic. You haven't provided one source, yet you continue to critique mine. You told me to pick one and yet provide "mountains of research". I am betting if I provided one, you would have

1. Said it was unreliable
2. Said it was only ONE resource.
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@3RU7AL
Naw, you just already lost.


Why? I provided sources that directly contradicted your "facts" (that you made up). Your only case against masks is that they don't work 100% which is basing your argument off an illogical fallacy. You haven't provided any sources whatsoever.


You lose, fine sir.


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@BearMan
The exclusive measure of an argument (rhetoric) is its ability to CONVINCE others.

Simply "declaring victory" is shockingly naive.
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@BearMan
From your own source,

If someone carrying the virus is wearing a cloth mask, that mask blocks most of the respiratory droplets they’re exhaling which is where the virus lives. Instead of propelling those droplets away from you, the mask keeps them from traveling more than a few feet. Thus, we get the recommended social distancing guideline of six feet. [YOURLINK#1]

First of all, cough and sneeze droplets are much larger and much more infectious than respiratory droplets (so cough and sneeze into your sleeve like you normally do).

Second of all, respiratory droplets average in sizes about 1 micron.

Respiratory droplets the size of 1 micron circulate freely for hours indoors.

So it's impossible to contain respiratory droplets within a range of "a few feet".

AND EVEN IFF it was possible to contain these respiratory droplets within the range of "a few feet",

IFF that "few feet" is, let's say, A CHECK-OUT COUNTER or a DOORWAY were every single customer passes, EVERY SINGLE CUSTOMER (their clothes, hair, and skin) WILL BE CONTAMINATED WITH THE PLAUGE.
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@BearMan
From your own source,

THE CLAIM:

“The spread of the virus really goes down in areas where people wear masks and it goes as down as four-to-five times reduced risk of infection when people in the community are wearing a mask than when they’re not wearing a mask,” says Dr. Dweik. [YOURLINK#1]

THE SCIENCE SUPPORTING THIS CLAIM:

We have demonstrated a simple optical measurement method to evaluate the efficacy of masks to reduce the transmission of respiratory droplets during regular speech. [LINKTOACTUALSTUDYNOTOPINIONPIECE]

OPTICAL MEASUREMENT does not address the RATHER IMPORTANT question of "how much virus does it take to infect another person".



THE EXACT SAME STUDY CONCLUDES:

What didn’t work, according to the study, were bandanas, knitted masks and neck fleeces, which are popular with runners for cold weather running and, now, coronavirus safety while exercising. [YOURLINK#1]

THE EXACT SAME STUDY CONCLUDES:

The study’s neck fleece data caused a bit of stir with many news outlets picking up on the results that those fleeces actually performed worse than wearing no mask at all

According to the study’s authors, it seems that the porous material that makes up the neck fleece breaks the larger respiratory droplets into smaller droplets instead of blocking them which allows them to linger in the air a little longer. [YOURLINK#1]

NOT TO BOG YOU DOWN WITH DATA TLDR:

Speech droplets generated by asymptomatic carriers of severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2) are increasingly considered to be a likely mode of disease transmission. Highly sensitive laser light scattering observations have revealed that loud speech can emit thousands of oral fluid droplets per second.

In a closed, stagnant air environment,

[Basically a sealed box, not a shop or restaurant where human breath and normal movement continuously agitates the air.]

they disappear from the window of view with time constants in the range of 8 to 14 min, which corresponds to droplet nuclei of ca. 4 μm diameter, or 12- to 21-μm droplets prior to dehydration. These observations confirm that there is a substantial probability that normal speaking causes airborne virus transmission in confined environments. [LINKTOACTUALSTUDYNOTOPINIONPIECE]

However, the possible role of small speech droplet nuclei with diameters of less than 30 μm, which potentially could remain airborne for extended periods of time (1289), has not been widely appreciated. [LINKTOACTUALSTUDYNOTOPINIONPIECE]

"how much virus does it take to infect another person"

The independent action hypothesis (IAH) states that each virion has an equal, nonzero probability of causing an infection. Validity of IAH was demonstrated for infection of insect larvae by baculovirus (15), and of plants by Tobacco etch virus variants that carried green fluorescent protein markers (16). IAH applies to systems where the host is highly susceptible, but the extent to which IAH is valid for humans and SARS-CoV-2 has not yet been firmly established. [LINKTOACTUALSTUDYNOTOPINIONPIECE]

each virion has an equal, nonzero probability of causing an infection.

EVERY SINGLE VIRON CAN CAUSE INFECTION.

EVERY SINGLE BREATH IS DEADLY.

IF YOUR MASK IS NOT AIRTIGHT AND HUNDREDS OF PEOPLE ARE BREATHING THE SAME AIR YOU WILL ENCOUNTER AT LEAST ONE VIRON.
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@3RU7AL
I never said bandanas or other weird masks work. I said N95 and Surgical Masks do. You countered this by saying there is valves that expell breathing unfiltered. I countered this by saying that nobody is standing right in front of the valve, and not all masks have valves.


You think that since some masks don't work, all masks don't work and you shouldn't wear one. The reason we wear masks AND enforce social distancing is because masks have their fair share of faults, and only prevent the virus from spreading to other people. Governments have already noticed what you noticed and enforced more rules. Sadly, this isn't China and we can't do contact tracing because of hard MAGA supporters and leftists each.

It is clear that your "facts" are wrong because not every person has the virus, and they have gone outside. I have not ever had the virus, and I followed every single rule the government showed. The pure existence of these people undermines your entire case, that masks and social distancing do help.


It is clear that you are completely wrong with your "facts" which are actually just opinions you have. Goodbye. Case closed.
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@BearMan
I never said bandanas or other weird masks work. I said N95 and Surgical Masks do. You countered this by saying there is valves that expell breathing unfiltered. I countered this by saying that nobody is standing right in front of the valve, and not all masks have valves.
Ok, so we agree that some masks prevent some spread of some virons, some of the time.

It doesn't matter if you're "not standing in front of the valve".  The virons contaminate the air.  Often circulating for several hours.

Most people are not wearing masks that even slightly mitigate the spread of virons.

Even single viron is potentially deadly.
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@BearMan
You think that since some masks don't work, all masks don't work and you shouldn't wear one.
Real world.

You are a good citizen (88 years young), wearing a proper mask.

You go into a gas-station-convenience-store.

You touch the door to open it.

You look around.

About half the customers are wearing home-made, cloth masks or scarves or bandanas.

Does that mean that I have half the risk of contracting the plague?

NO.  NO IT DOES NOT.  BECAUSE IT ONLY TAKES ONE VIRON TO INFECT YOU.
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@BearMan
I am betting if I provided one, you would have

1. Said it was unreliable
2. Said it was only ONE resource.
Leap to conclusions much?
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@BearMan
It is clear that your "facts" are wrong because not every person has the virus, and they have gone outside.
I specifically noted INDOORS.

Sunlight (ultraviolet) apparently kills virons dead.
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@BearMan
Governments have already noticed what you noticed and enforced more rules.
Gyms are opened and bars are closed.

Churches are limited to 25 individuals and restaurants are limited to 25% capacity.

None of this makes sense.
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@BearMan
I have not ever had the virus, and I followed every single rule the government showed.
YOU DON'T KNOW THAT.

YOU COULD BE "ASYMPTOMATIC".

HAVE YOU EVER HEARD OF EPISTEMOLOGICAL LIMITS!!!
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@3RU7AL
First off, virus particles aren't alive, you would know this if you took 6th grade science.

Second, most supermarkets now are indoors, meaning that most people who go shopping go indoors. Not everyone who goes shopping has the virus, or ever had the virus including myself. This means somewhere in your proof, you are wrong.


Third, I never said cloth masks work. Social Distancing, N95, and surgical masks do. Yet we have to consider that not everyone has access to those masks. I have masks, some people do not. 

Finally, masks and social distancing do help prevent the spread of the virus. There are just different types of masks, which limits how far the virus goes instead of pushing out filtered air. This is why we also use social distancing, and limiting the amount of people in the line.

Just because some masks don't work as much as others, does NOT mean that you shouldn't wear one. The term "face covering" is very debatable and the governments need to stop using that term. The United States should've been better prepared in handing out masks, but instead we downplayed the virus and 213 thousand people are dead.

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@BearMan
The pure existence of these people undermines your entire case, that masks and social distancing do help.
I never claimed, "these people don't exist".

Therefore, "the pure existence of these people" is immaterial to my case.
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@3RU7AL
YOU DON'T KNOW THAT.

YOU COULD BE "ASYMPTOMATIC".

HAVE YOU EVER HEARD OF EPISTEMOLOGICAL LIMITS!!!
I do know that. I already took a blood test, they found no COVID antigens. That was like a week ago. I haven't been out since.
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@3RU7AL
It is clear that you are trying to prove that EVERYONE who has gone indoors with other people have gotten the virus, which is false. Since these people exist, your case is not sound.
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@BearMan
It is clear that you are completely wrong with your "facts" which are actually just opinions you have.
Please be slightly more specific.

Please identify a single "fact" (claim) I've made that you specifically doubt.
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For the record, I have come across people who have tested positive for COVID-19, I've literally been inside their house, but wore a mask and was careful with what I touched.


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@3RU7AL
It sounds like it protects neither.

It sounds like a cynical social experiment.

IF YOUR MASK IS NOT AIRTIGHT AND HUNDREDS OF PEOPLE ARE BREATHING THE SAME AIR YOU WILL ENCOUNTER AT LEAST ONE VIRON.


Both of these are wrong. 

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@BearMan
It is clear that you are trying to prove that EVERYONE who has gone indoors with other people have gotten the virus, which is false. Since these people exist, your case is not sound.
I appreciate your attempt at a STEEL-MAN, but I would not make that leap myself.

I would say that (IFF) a contagious person has been in the same room (store/gym/restaurant) as a susceptible person (within a 6 to 8 hour window) (THEN) their chances of encountering at least one viron are extremely high (AND) their chances of encountering at least one viron are NOT mitigated by either wearing or not wearing a mask.

This means that while NOT EVERYONE IS INFECTED, wearing a prophylactic mask will not protect you from exposure to dangerous plague virons.

(IFF) you tested negative (THEN) (EITHER) you were not in the same room with a contagious person (within a 6 to 8 hour window) (OR) exposure to sunlight destroyed the virons on your person before they entered your body.
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@BearMan
For the record, I have come across people who have tested positive for COVID-19, I've literally been inside their house, but wore a mask and was careful with what I touched.
Simply testing positive for COVID-19 does not mean you're contagious forever-and-ever.
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@BearMan
Both of these are wrong. 
Please challenge my axioms and or point out a specific logical error and or provide a counter-factual.

Simply gain-saying is unproductive.
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@3RU7AL
Simply testing positive for COVID-19 does not mean you're contagious forever-and-ever.
No, they had COVID at the time

Please challenge my axioms and or point out a specific logical error and or provide a counter-factual.

Simply gain-saying is unproductive.
If this was a debate I would, sadly it isn't and if it was your case is in pieces. I don't even know what you're trying to argue at this point. I'm saying we should wear masks, and your counter is that some masks don't work?
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@BearMan
Simply testing positive for COVID-19 does not mean you're contagious forever-and-ever.
No, they had COVID at the time
EVEN BETTER.

THIS PROVES THE COVID PLAGUE IS NOT NEARLY AS INFECTIOUS AS WE'VE BEEN TOLD!!!!

My position that "even one viron can be deadly" was taken directly from one of the scientific studies you cited.
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@BearMan
I'm saying we should wear masks,
You've convinced me.

When should we stop wearing masks?

Shouldn't we be concerned for the 600,000 people who die every year from flu?

Shouldn't we be concerned for the thousands of people who die every year from tuberculosis?

Why would we wear masks for one deadly disease and not wear masks for EVERY DEADLY DISEASE?

Don't you care about the cute-tiny-baby-children and or the elderly?
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@3RU7AL
EVEN BETTER.

THIS PROVES THE COVID PLAGUE IS NOT NEARLY AS INFECTIOUS AS WE'VE BEEN TOLD!!!!

My position that "even one viron can be deadly" was taken directly from one of the scientific studies you cited.

Naw it's just that masks work.

You've convinced me.

When should we stop wearing masks?

Shouldn't we be concerned for the 600,000 people who die every year from flu?

Shouldn't we be concerned for the thousands of people who die every year from tuberculosis?

Why would we wear masks for one deadly disease and not wear masks for EVERY DEADLY DISEASE?

Don't you care about the cute-tiny-baby-children and or the elderly?
When you are sick, wear a mask. This is how it is in plenty of Asian countries. I don't know why Westerners refuse to adopt this. Wash your hands for 20 seconds, wear a mask when you're sick, and refrain from touching a lot of things in public, EVEN when you aren't in a pandemic.
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@BearMan
Naw it's just that masks work.
Please publish this important finding in your nearest scientific journal.

You might be leaping to conclusions again, better get peer-reviewed.