they are legitimately trained marxists, they just admitted it!
BLM must be stopped
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@Dr.Franklin
they are legitimately trained marxists, they just admitted it!
lol one person said something you don't like, so millions of people should be ignored. That sounds like a republican talking point.
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@Dr.Franklin
You say Marxist like it is a bad thing...
ofc they should stopped, it shouldn't have existed in the first place.
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@Dr.Franklin
we already did this one.
also not "they," she- Patrisse Cullors
also not "just" - 5 years ago. I'm sure the NY Post will keep "re-discover"ing this claim some more in the future.
also not "admitted" but declared. An admission is a response, an acknowledgement. Saying "admitted" implies guilt where no guilt is warranted. Cullors volunteered this uncontroversial biographical claim. Anybody who's taken a college macroeconomics class likely qualifies as a legitimately trained Marxist. A black lesbian saying she's taken an economics class should not be so terrifying to you, I wonder why it does?
What do you think "legitimately trained Marxist" means?
What is your plan for stopping BLM? Must implies an imperative. Would you kill to keep black lesbians from studying economics?
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@HistoryBuff
that was a co founder OF THE WHOLE MOVEMENT
also does that logic apply to cops?
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@Greyparrot
well it is
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@oromagi
Anybody who's taken a college macroeconomics class likely qualifies as a legitimately trained Marxist.
explain how that works exactly?
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@Dr.Franklin
@oromagiAnybody who's taken a college macroeconomics class likely qualifies as a legitimately trained Marxist.explain how that works exactly?
I'll answer your question after you have answered mine.
- What do you think "legitimately trained Marxist" means?
- What is your plan for stopping BLM?
- Would you kill to keep black lesbians from studying economics?
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@oromagi
What do you think "legitimately trained Marxist" means?
Marxists that are trained to demand marxist change
- What is your plan for stopping BLM?
i dont know, I said it MUST be stopped, how about we start by exposing these things and then stop listening to them
Would you kill to keep black lesbians from studying economics?
No
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@Dr.Franklin
that was a co founder OF THE WHOLE MOVEMENT
your point is? It is a massive movement with millions and millions of supporters. You think that the opinions of one person automatically invalidates the views of millions of people?
also does that logic apply to cops?
groups should be questioned based on what they do as a group. One member of BLM said in an interview once she was a marxist. There is zero evidence that the movement is marxist.
Cops harass and attack people of color all the time. It is not a rare or isolated thing.
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@HistoryBuff
the founder of a movement where millions donated to and millions support just admitted they were trained marxists
that is plently of evidence the movement is marxist, she admitted they were trained marxists
answer the quesiton: does that logic apply to cops
. You think that the doings of one person automatically invalidates the jobs of millions of people?
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@Dr.Franklin
MARXISM is "a method of socioeconomic analysis that uses a materialist interpretation of historical development, better known as historical materialism, to understand class relations and social conflict as well as a dialectical perspective to view social transformation. It originates from the works of 19th-century German philosophers Karl Marx and Friedrich Engels. As Marxism has developed over time into various branches and schools of thought, there is currently no single definitive Marxist theory"
So, for example, I am a trained Marxist. I studied the use of the Marxist dialectic in artistic critical theory. I am able to discuss The SImpsons as a Marxist critique of both the greedy bourgeoisie as represented by Mr. Burns as well as the consumption-numbed proletariat as represented by Homer Simpson. I've written essays decrying Newt Gingrich's patronizing perspective of the proletariat demonstrated by his praise of Forrest Gump as representative of what a good American should be (dumb, lucky, submissive, and uncurious).
Marxism is a method, a tool. It is not a political ideology. It is not a religious ideology. It doesn't mean anti-Capitalist, or anti-American, or anti-Christian. It doesn't mean Socialist, or Communist, or Marxist-Leninist (which is what FOX News mostly thinks Marxism means). Many, many people think Marxism is an ideology but that does not change the meaning of the word or the economic skill set it describes.
If you are not a trained Marxist, then your education is missing some pretty fundamental economic and critical theory.
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@Dr.Franklin
If they are legitimately trained, then presumably they are legitimate?
So what's the problem?
Perhaps you have a conditioned fear of others that are somewhat dissimilar to you.
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@Dr.Franklin
Marxists that are trained to demand marxist change
Uhh demanding change doesn't require any training whatsoever so... what you are describing just sounds like a Marxist... are you sure someone isn't using the phrase "trained Marxist" to make something sound scarier than it actually is?
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@Dr.Franklin
he founder of a movement where millions donated to and millions support just admitted they were trained marxiststhat is plently of evidence the movement is marxist, she admitted they were trained marxists
again, one person out of millions said this. So clearly all of them must be this.... I'm quite certain there are some neo-nazi or KKK republicans. So by your logic, all republicans are neo-nazis and KKK.
answer the quesiton: does that logic apply to cops
You found 1 person out of millions who said they were a marxist. So judging all of them by that is stupid. There are thousands upon thousands of racist/abusive cops. I mean we saw hundreds of videos of police abusing protesters recently. So judging them on a wider scale is certainly warranted because of larger scale of the issue.
Also, police are hired and trained by the government. They need to be held to the highest standards. If some random person in a crowd does something stupid, that is a bad thing. But they do not represent the government. they do not have the power and authority of the government. If police do stupid shit, they do represent the government. They do have that power and authority. They therefore need to be held to a much higher standard of behavior. Which they are not upholding.
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@HistoryBuff
your point is? It is a massive movement with millions and millions of supporters. You think that the opinions of one person automatically invalidates the views of millions of people?
there were also millions of nazis, commies, and socialists who though they were doing the right thing. having more people doesn't automatically validate your side.
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@HistoryBuff
oh wait you were talking about the person who admitted she was a marxist, yeah no she was just slightly more idiotic than all the other people in the movement.
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@WaterPhoenix
there were also millions of nazis, commies, and socialists who though they were doing the right thing. having more people doesn't automatically validate your side.
no one is claiming it does. But having one person say they have a specific ideology, does not in any way diminish the beliefs of millions of people. Especially considering virtually none of them have said they have that same ideology. BLM is about the rights of black people.
oh wait you were talking about the person who admitted she was a marxist, yeah no she was just slightly more idiotic than all the other people in the movement.
this kind of thinking is deeply problematic. Instinctually saying that everyone in a group is an idiot because you disagree with parts of what they say or believe is a terrible idea. This same kind of thinking helped get trump elected (ie powerful people rejected that he could win cause he's a racist dick and ignored the economic populism that was actually quite popular).
writing off millions and millions of people is stupid. The much better idea, is to try to show people why your plan will accomplish more than than the plan you think is stupid. So if you think BLM is dumb, then show why your ideology/plan can do more to help black people.
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@HistoryBuff
you disagree with parts of what they say or believe is a terrible idea.
oh no, i disagree with all of it.
So if you think BLM is dumb, then show why your ideology/plan can do more to help black people.
make everyone have an equal starting ground, if they're retarded don't give them anything to help them. college admissions are based on intelligence and intelligence alone, equity can go suck a dick. no reparations for anyone of any race or culture, reparations are the stupidest thing ever and the very word is a waste of space in the english language. don't defund the police, in fact, give them more funding. if someone breaks one of the rules then suspend them, if they don't then no one cares. arrest anyone who rioted or was involved with the riots and make them pay for all of the private property they destroyed. and that's basically it. this blm thing has gotten to a point where all lives matter is considered racist, we need to stop it. honestly, this looks like it's heading more towards anarchy than communism, either way, if any of those things happen, you can bet that i'm fleeing america.
writing off millions and millions of people is stupid.
this is not how logic works.
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@Dr.Franklin
-> @oromagiWhat do you think "legitimately trained Marxist" means?Marxists that are trained to demand marxist change
- That's like defining a trained parrot as a parrot who is trained to parrot. You aren't adding any context to the word Marxist which suggests that you don't have a ready understanding of the concept.
- What is your plan for stopping BLM?
i dont know
- So you lack any plan for action, which tells us that us that you haven't considered or else are heedless of the consequences of your call to action.
I said it MUST be stopped, how about we start by exposing these things
- Exposing what? As I've pointed out a couple of times before, Cullors freely offered this biographical insight five years ago, at the advent of BLM. This narrative of "exposing" and "admission" is a falsehood you are contributing- fake news.
and then stop listening to them
Well, we are all already free to stop listening to BLM right now. Look, I think people should stop watching The Bachelor but if I posted a forum titled "The Bachelor Must be Stopped" readers would rationally understand that to mean something rather more than "stop watching the Bachelor," right?
BLM's mission is fairly straightforward:
- to eradicate white supremacy and
- build local power to intervene in violence inflicted on Black communities by the state and vigilantes.
Personally, I'm fine with this mission. white supremacist are responsible for the majority of domestic terrorism since 9/11 and the mission of white supremacist is diametrically opposed to the mission of America as defined in the Declaration of Independence, the US Constitution, BIll of Right, Gettysburg Address, etc, etc, etc.
BLM has made a compelling case that the state and vigilantes regularly violate the civil rights of US Citizens based on skin color in clear contravention of 4th and 14th Amendment protections, at least.
Do I find much of the rhetoric and posturing of BLM overblown, irrational, and contrary to the stated mission? Yes, but that is true of every grass roots movement I've ever participated in or paid attention to. In the land of free speech, every word of wisdom comes encapsulated by nine idiocies.
Would you kill to keep black lesbians from studying economics?
I'm glad to hear it. Short of mass state & vigilante violence, I think your call to stop BLM is doomed to fail.
I find your argument 100% unconvincing.
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@WaterPhoenix
oh no, i disagree with all of it.
you disagree that black people should be treated as equals? I mean that is the core of their argument, so if you disagree with everything they believe, then you are a massive racist.
make everyone have an equal starting ground, if they're retarded don't give them anything to help them. college admissions are based on intelligence and intelligence alone, equity can go suck a dick.
oh god no. you can be very smart, but if you have no money to pay for university, then you are screwed. And the people who get the top jobs, usually come from only a handful of the most exclusive and expensive schools. So if you don't have the right connections and the right socio-economic background, you can forget about alot of upward mobility.
don't defund the police, in fact, give them more funding.
this is the problem though. politicians have been doing this for decades. They cut funding for other services and shovel that money onto police so they can have tanks and assault weapons. Now if there is any kind of problem, your only option is to call the police when in many cases they are not the right service for the job. So instead of helping homeless people get back on their feet, we send cops to harass them or arrest them.
this blm thing has gotten to a point where all lives matter is considered racist, we need to stop it.
all lives matter is the refrain of racists. If your house is on fire and you try to get people to come and help and they respond "well my house needs painting, all houses matter", that person is a dick. Your house is the one that is on fire. You obviously have an issue that requires attention. So every time you say "all lives matter" in response to someone saying black lives matter, you are the asshole refusing to help someone whose house is on fire because your house needs paint.
writing off millions and millions of people is stupid.this is not how logic works.
you didn't make any sense. millions and millions of people in america believe that racism is a serious issue that needs to be dealt with. You, and people like you, write all of them off as idiots and ignore them. That is stupid. they have a legitimate concern. You can disagree with how to address that concern, but ignoring them and the issue means you are proving to them that your ideology doesn't give a shit about them or the issues that concern them, guaranteeing they will never support your ideology/party.
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@HistoryBuff
you disagree that black people should be treated as equals? I mean that is the core of their argument, so if you disagree with everything they believe, then you are a massive racist.
sure buddy
oh god no. you can be very smart, but if you have no money to pay for university, then you are screwed. And the people who get the top jobs, usually come from only a handful of the most exclusive and expensive schools. So if you don't have the right connections and the right socio-economic background, you can forget about alot of upward mobility.
did you even read what i said, i said to not give any special priveliges for anyone, be it reparations or the compulsive need for equity democrats seem to have. i'm not against letting more people get into universities, i believe what determines a persons worth is how much they can contribute to society.
this is the problem though. politicians have been doing this for decades. They cut funding for other services and shovel that money onto police so they can have tanks and assault weapons. Now if there is any kind of problem, your only option is to call the police when in many cases they are not the right service for the job. So instead of helping homeless people get back on their feet, we send cops to harass them or arrest them.
this is such blatant media propaganda, do you really think anytime police are told to get rid of a homeless person begging in a place where they're not supposed to, the police harass them? of course they would arrest them, if someone's breaking the law, arrest them. also, police don't have tanks, at least, my county police department sure as hell doesn't. lastly, can i see some of the super important services politicians have cut in favor of funding the police?
all lives matter is the refrain of racists. If your house is on fire and you try to get people to come and help and they respond "well my house needs painting, all houses matter", that person is a dick. Your house is the one that is on fire. You obviously have an issue that requires attention. So every time you say "all lives matter" in response to someone saying black lives matter, you are the asshole refusing to help someone whose house is on fire because your house needs paint.
this is the most idiotic analogy i have ever heard. all lives matter means all races get equal treatment, keep in mind not equal outcome, equal starting ground. and also keep in mind this equal starting ground doesn't mean one side has an advantage equal, by equal i mean equal equal.
you didn't make any sense. millions and millions of people in america believe that racism is a serious issue that needs to be dealt with. You, and people like you, write all of them off as idiots and ignore them. That is stupid. they have a legitimate concern. You can disagree with how to address that concern, but ignoring them and the issue means you are proving to them that your ideology doesn't give a shit about them or the issues that concern them, guaranteeing they will never support your ideology/party.
i don't need people to support my ideology. i can believe what i want, why would i ever need them to support my ideology. "then don't bother them" you say. i didn't bother them, not before they started rioting and destroying property at least. i can deal with the media shoving "we support all races" up my ass all day. but when people are rioting WITHOUT MASKS and destroying private property, i get extremely, extremely, ticked. these guys are causing the death and destruction of innocent people's wellbeing and property, as well as costing millions maybe billions worth of damages. i'm not ignoring them, in fact, i am very concerned about them.
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@HistoryBuff
Stereotyping Republicans because one person said something, sounds like something a typical Liberal would do.
Is what I would say if I was stereotyping people. But it's only you.
Let's also make something clear. The statement itself to me, I have no issue with. I believe ALM supporters are deluded. BLM is ALM, but they believe in fighting to improve the quality of Black Lives. I have no problem getting behind the saying and the goal for BLM. There not black supremacists. I do have an issue with the organization overall
Dr. franklin is authright confirmed.
I disagree. with whoever who thinks BLM should be stopped. BLM is fighting for people's rights. We should change how BLM works except for its fundamentals. We shouldn't make governments completely invisible(anarchy) just because we hate the government. Changing the government, even if harder, should be much more helpful.
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@WaterPhoenix
you disagree that black people should be treated as equals? I mean that is the core of their argument, so if you disagree with everything they believe, then you are a massive racist.sure buddy
BLM is fighting for black people's rights. You claimed you disagree with everything they stand for. The only logical conclusion is that you are opposed to black people being treated as equal.
did you even read what i said, i said to not give any special priveliges for anyone, be it reparations or the compulsive need for equity democrats seem to have. i'm not against letting more people get into universities, i believe what determines a persons worth is how much they can contribute to society.
but the system is designed to give a small segment of the population a huge advantage. If you go to a prestigious school because your parents have the right connections, you are extremely likely to do better than someone who is much more talented, but wasn't able to get into a top notch school because they didn't have the money or connections. So you want to judge people based on outcome when that outcome is heavily weighted to the rich and connected.
this is such blatant media propaganda, do you really think anytime police are told to get rid of a homeless person begging in a place where they're not supposed to, the police harass them? of course they would arrest them, if someone's breaking the law, arrest them.
I'm not saying they harass or arrest them every time. But they simply do not have the tools to actually help them. They don't have the training or resources to resolve the underlying problem. dealing with homelessness is not a task that police should be handling.
also, police don't have tanks, at least, my county police department sure as hell doesn't.
I don't know where you live so I can't confirm the armaments of your local police force. In the early 90's the 1033 program started. This program allowed local police forces to apply to be given military equipment. Over 8,000 police departments have used the program to get military equipment. Some things given out in this program are night-vision goggles, machine guns, armored vehicles, bayonets, grenade launchers, and military aircraft.
Here is an article on the militarization of the police.
this is the most idiotic analogy i have ever heard. all lives matter means all races get equal treatment, keep in mind not equal outcome, equal starting ground. and also keep in mind this equal starting ground doesn't mean one side has an advantage equal, by equal i mean equal equal.
ok, but when only 1 segment of the population is on the receiving end of the racism, then your response is stupid. No one has ever questioned if white lives matter. Many, many people think that black lives don't. So attempting to distract from the issues black people face is how racist people attempt to avoid the issue. Much like my example of people refusing to help the guy whose house is on fire because their house needs paint. I mean, all houses matter right?
i don't need people to support my ideology. i can believe what i want, why would i ever need them to support my ideology.
because this is a democracy. If you think your ideas have merit, then you should want to show other people why they do so that your ideas can be used. If you just shit on people then they are obviously going to do something else and your ideology will be ignored.
but when people are rioting WITHOUT MASKS and destroying private property, i get extremely, extremely, ticked. these guys are causing the death and destruction of innocent people's wellbeing and property, as well as costing millions maybe billions worth of damages. i'm not ignoring them, in fact, i am very concerned about them.
if you actually care about those things, then you should want to do something to prevent the violence from starting. Sending in goons to shoot them might (and I emphasize might) be able to suppress the violence. But if you don't do anything about the reason those people are upset in the 1st place, then there will be more violence. You are guaranteeing it. And excessive police force is only making the issue worse, since that is one of their primary complaints.
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@Vader
Stereotyping Republicans because one person said something, sounds like something a typical Liberal would do.
fair point. People of all politcal stripes stereotype. But please don't pretend republicans don't do this too. I mean lots of people on the right are trying to paint Joe Biden as some kind of leftist. He is about as right as you can go without being a republican on alot of issues.
Let's also make something clear. The statement itself to me, I have no issue with. I believe ALM supporters are deluded. BLM is ALM, but they believe in fighting to improve the quality of Black Lives. I have no problem getting behind the saying and the goal for BLM. There not black supremacists. I do have an issue with the organization overall
that is totally fair. To be honest I don't really give a shit about the BLM organization. You can agree or disagree with how they do things. But the BLM movement has gone far beyond that organization. When people attempt to write off a movement with millions of people in it (i'm not saying you are, just to be clear) then they are idiots.
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@HistoryBuff
BLM is fighting for black people's rights. You claimed you disagree with everything they stand for. The only logical conclusion is that you are opposed to black people being treated as equal.
no they're fighting so that black people are on an equal standing ground. they're trying to make the outcome equal, always equal.
but the system is designed to give a small segment of the population a huge advantage. If you go to a prestigious school because your parents have the right connections, you are extremely likely to do better than someone who is much more talented, but wasn't able to get into a top notch school because they didn't have the money or connections. So you want to judge people based on outcome when that outcome is heavily weighted to the rich and connected.
this is why there are merit scholarships
I'm not saying they harass or arrest them every time. But they simply do not have the tools to actually help them. They don't have the training or resources to resolve the underlying problem. dealing with homelessness is not a task that police should be handling.
who should be handling homelessness
I don't know where you live so I can't confirm the armaments of your local police force. In the early 90's the 1033 program started. This program allowed local police forces to apply to be given military equipment. Over 8,000 police departments have used the program to get military equipment. Some things given out in this program are night-vision goggles, machine guns, armored vehicles, bayonets, grenade launchers, and military aircraft.Here is an article on the militarization of the police.
and it is completely 100 percent worth it. if i had rioters came to my neighborhood and burned down my house i'd bomb every single one of them. also, what other services have been defunded in favor of the police.
ok, but when only 1 segment of the population is on the receiving end of the racism, then your response is stupid. No one has ever questioned if white lives matter. Many, many people think that black lives don't. So attempting to distract from the issues black people face is how racist people attempt to avoid the issue. Much like my example of people refusing to help the guy whose house is on fire because their house needs paint. I mean, all houses matter right?
if the person who owns the house has commited a crime then another houseowner has more worth. i'm not saying all black people are delinquents, in fact, a lot of them are geniuses who contribute a lot to society. however, if an area has more crimes commited by black people than white people i would trust a white person there more than a black person. also, you statement of "no one has ever questioned if white lives matter" is very false, many white people have been persecuted for either how they look, their religion, or the race and background.
because this is a democracy. If you think your ideas have merit, then you should want to show other people why they do so that your ideas can be used. If you just shit on people then they are obviously going to do something else and your ideology will be ignored.
i feel my ideology of, "black live matter is a idiotic organization and should be stopped" isn't just my idea, and that many people think this. if they say it though they will most definitely get banned from wherever they said it. if i said "we should stop blm" in my school i would most defniitely get a suspension at the least.
if you actually care about those things, then you should want to do something to prevent the violence from starting. Sending in goons to shoot them might (and I emphasize might) be able to suppress the violence. But if you don't do anything about the reason those people are upset in the 1st place, then there will be more violence. You are guaranteeing it. And excessive police force is only making the issue worse, since that is one of their primary complaints.
these people want to enact communism, anarchy, and want to defund the police. there is nothing excessive with using fucking pepper spray against a mob of people burning everything they see, looting, causing billions of dollars in damage, and not wearing a mask. in fact they should be using tranqs by now, if you ask me. this police response is laughable, they call in the national guard, yet seeing as these riots are still happening, the national guard has a done a grand total of nothing. all these "heroic" photos circulating around of black people carrying other black people after police have tased them of some shit to the hospital fail to understand that these people are RIOTING ok? do you understand what that means? destruction of private property and general complete anarchy. god knows how much billions in damage that guy who got pepper sprayed has done. if i'm being honest though, the police probably will be defunded. trump hasn't really made a move on the protestors cause if he does he won't get elected for sure, but if these riots continue the police will probably be defunded.
god has forsaken this nation.
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@oromagi
why would she say shes a trained marxist instead of saying I have studied economics
and marxism lead to communism and other dangerous schools of though, its not a good thing
a trained marxist would be somebody who is trained in these areas to promote dangerous schools on Marxism, otherwise she is just an economist
I dont have a plan to take down BLM, must doesnt mean to act on it, it means it is neccessry
BLM's mission is fairly straightforward:
- to eradicate white supremacy and
- build local power to intervene in violence inflicted on Black communities by the state and vigilantes.
no its not-its goals on the website include
- dismalintling the nuclear family
- promoting donating to democrats
The Black community is not negatively affected by rogue vigilantes that kills 9 a year, it is affected by crime, low economic development and single motherhood
BLM doesnt know what white supremacy is,it thinks anything that doenst agree with them qualifies as racist
i dont agree with the majority of BLM members, there is no reason for me to support them