Has BLM gone too far?

Author: BearMan

Posts

Total: 153
3RU7AL
3RU7AL's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 14,582
3
4
9
3RU7AL's avatar
3RU7AL
3
4
9
-->
@ILikePie5
Can we at least agree that CIVIL RIGHTS should give domestic citizens MORE protection than foreigners in an active WARZONE?

Isn't this just "common sense"?
I never disagreed with this lol. Rayshard Brooks got himself killed by resisting arrest, punching a cop, stealing a cop’s taser and shooting it at the cop. He would’ve been fine if he accepted arrest. There’s nothing more to it.
RESISTING ARREST IS NOT A CAPITAL OFFENSE.

I mean, do you understand what DRUNK means?
ILikePie5
ILikePie5's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 15,167
3
7
10
ILikePie5's avatar
ILikePie5
3
7
10
-->
@3RU7AL
The District Attorney pressing charges against Atlanta Police Officer Garret Rolfe, who shot a suspect who tried to use a taser on him while attempting to escape, recently charged other officers with “aggravated assault” for using a Taser in another incident. [LINK]

Notice they were not charged with "assault with a deadly weapon" or "attempted murder".
Garrett Rolfe is charged with felony murder lol. The DA is quoted saying that a taser was a deadly weapon in another case while simultaneously saying that it isn’t in this case. He’s a political hack who is in a runoff election.

They grabbed the taser after having it placed point-blank against their leg (I call that "self-defense").
After the dude assaulted the cops lol. The primary aggressor was Rayshard Brooks lol.

The gunshots were several seconds AFTER the taser fired it's ONLY cartridge.
Irrelevant. Rolfe was attacked by a deadly weapon and he responded properly even according to a Black Georgia Sheriff Alfonzo Williams.

Do you happen to know anyone who did something stupid while intoxicated?
I’ve seen countless intoxicated individuals get arrested peacefully on Cops and Live PD. Everything was going fine until Brooks decided to assault the cops. Even then the cops didn’t shoot him. They ran after him telling him to put the taser down. He turned and shot the taser at Rolfe after which Rolfe responded.

Why not give every citizen Qualified Immunity?
Does every citizen risk their life everyday by going to work to protect their neighborhoods?

Shooting someone who is running away from you is NOT self-defense.
Shooting someone who shoots at you with a taser is an act of self defense. The cops could’ve shot him before he turned around and fired the taser. Why didn’t they do that? He only shot after he was fired upon.
ILikePie5
ILikePie5's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 15,167
3
7
10
ILikePie5's avatar
ILikePie5
3
7
10
-->
@3RU7AL
RESISTING ARREST IS NOT A CAPITAL OFFENSE.

I mean, do you understand what DRUNK means?
I never said it was. But him doing it lead to his death 
3RU7AL
3RU7AL's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 14,582
3
4
9
3RU7AL's avatar
3RU7AL
3
4
9
-->
@ILikePie5
Why not give every citizen Qualified Immunity?
Does every citizen risk their life everyday by going to work to protect their neighborhoods?
You mean like hospital staff?
3RU7AL
3RU7AL's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 14,582
3
4
9
3RU7AL's avatar
3RU7AL
3
4
9
-->
@ILikePie5
RESISTING ARREST IS NOT A CAPITAL OFFENSE.

I mean, do you understand what DRUNK means?
I never said it was. But him doing it lead to his death 
Confiscating the man's vehicle and issuing a warrant would have been appropriate.
zedvictor4
zedvictor4's avatar
Debates: 22
Posts: 12,083
3
3
6
zedvictor4's avatar
zedvictor4
3
3
6
-->
@BearMan
Black Lives Matter is an inaccurate slogan that promotes racism simply by differentiating Black Lives.

Racism is not exclusive.

All Lives Matter would have been less discriminatory......Though the philosophical jury will always be out on this issue.
RationalMadman
RationalMadman's avatar
Debates: 574
Posts: 19,931
10
11
11
RationalMadman's avatar
RationalMadman
10
11
11
-->
@zedvictor4
All lives mattering is irrelevant. The cause focuses on bettering the lives of black people and doesn't ever claim that it believes other lives don't matter, there is no connection between the two.


3RU7AL
3RU7AL's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 14,582
3
4
9
3RU7AL's avatar
3RU7AL
3
4
9
-->
@zedvictor4
"If for the sake of Communism it is necessary for us to destroy 9/10ths of the people, we must not hesitate." "We must realize that our party's most powerful weapon is racial tensions. By propounding into the consciousness of the dark races that for centuries they have been oppressed by whites, we can mold them to the program of the Communist Party. In America we will aim for subtle victory. While inflaming the Negro minority against the whites, we will endeavor to instill in the whites a guilt complex for their exploitation of the Negros. We will aid the Negroes to rise in prominence in every walk of life, in the professions and in the world of sports and entertainment. With this prestige, the Negro will be able to intermarry with the whites and begin a process which will deliver America to our cause." Israel Cohen, A Racial Program for the Twentieth Century, 1912. Also in the Congressional Record, Vol. 103, p. 8559, June 7, 1957"
1912, yipes!

HistoryBuff
HistoryBuff's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 4,222
3
3
3
HistoryBuff's avatar
HistoryBuff
3
3
3
-->
@zedvictor4
Black Lives Matter is an inaccurate slogan that promotes racism simply by differentiating Black Lives.
this is an incorrect statement. The common example to try to explain this goes like this: Your house is on fire and you are trying to get people/the fire department to come and put it out. They respond "with well all houses matter, not just yours". Your house is the one on fire. pointing out the problem and trying to draw attention to it is not an attempt to tell people that their houses don't matter. But you are the one with the biggest, immediate problem. 

You are attempting to argue that drawing attention to the acute issues black people face is somehow racist. They aren't saying white lives don't matter. They are saying that black people's lives matter, because to politicians and society in general, they often don't.
Athias
Athias's avatar
Debates: 20
Posts: 3,192
3
3
9
Athias's avatar
Athias
3
3
9
-->
@HistoryBuff
this is an incorrect statement. The common example to try to explain this goes like this: Your house is on fire and you are trying to get people/the fire department to come and put it out. They respond "with well all houses matter, not just yours". Your house is the one on fire. pointing out the problem and trying to draw attention to it is not an attempt to tell people that their houses don't matter. But you are the one with the biggest, immediate problem. 

You are attempting to argue that drawing attention to the acute issues black people face is somehow racist. They aren't saying white lives don't matter. They are saying that black people's lives matter, because to politicians and society in general, they often don't.
"Black" is a corporate designation; it's neither an ethnicity nor a cultural demographic. The BLM is also based on a false narrative: "blacks" are victimized more by the police. The BLM has no proposed solutions because the issue with which it's allegedly concerned eludes them. They're not concerned about "black lives," or particularizing their narratives to "black lives" (look at the fact that their mission statement includes for lesbians, transgenders, and the fight against "patriarchy.") If anything, it's a lesbian separatist movement given the majority of those who participate in their protests.

3RU7AL
3RU7AL's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 14,582
3
4
9
3RU7AL's avatar
3RU7AL
3
4
9
-->
@HistoryBuff
Your house is on fire and you are trying to get people/the fire department to come and put it out. They respond "with well all houses matter, not just yours". Your house is the one on fire. pointing out the problem and trying to draw attention to it is not an attempt to tell people that their houses don't matter. But you are the one with the biggest, immediate problem. 
Well stated.
Greyparrot
Greyparrot's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 26,010
3
4
10
Greyparrot's avatar
Greyparrot
3
4
10
But you are the one with the biggest, immediate problem. 

Says who? BLM was founded on a lie. There is nothing in the DNA of a colored person that makes them a born victim.
Systemic racism is also a lie. Systemic racism against Blacks ended in 1964 and systemic racism against whites and Asians is now limited to a few universities and almost gone entirely due to public pushback.

Stop with the junk science.

The only lives BLM cares about are the 13 thugs a year killed by cops out of 3 million police encounters. Fuck BLM if that's the house they want to set on fire.
Greyparrot
Greyparrot's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 26,010
3
4
10
Greyparrot's avatar
Greyparrot
3
4
10
-->
@Athias
The movement - Black Lives Matter movement - has four basic objectives with respect to diminishing law enforcement.
1) They want to disenfranchise the law enforcement from the community.
2) They want to defund law enforcement.
3) They want to diminish their involvement in the community and their stature, and
4) they want to basically dissolve law enforcement.

And the reason is because police officers are protectors of the rule of the law, and the Black Lives Matter movement is a black nationalist revolutionary Marxist movement that is tied into a much larger international movement referred to as One World One Struggle.
The most telling things are the research we do where we pulled up the actual videos of the founders of the movement going out and giving speeches and talks to various community groups.
The Black Lives Matter movement has done everything consistent with having a war on police. The rhetoric is violent. You know, the most recent killings - the killer stated that part of the reason that he was inflamed enough to kill the police officers was because of the rhetoric from the Black Lives Matter movement.
The Black Lives Matter movement is based on a lie, and not just the lie that a pacific Michael Brown was gunned down in cold blood by Ferguson, Mo., police officer Darren Wilson in August 2014.
The idea that the U.S. is experiencing an epidemic of racially driven police shootings is also false, and dangerously so. Several studies released this year comparing rates of crimes and police encounters with whites and blacks show that police officers are far more likely to shoot whites than blacks. If this is systemic racism, it's certainly not against blacks.
Police critics have never answered the question of what they think non-biased policing data should look like, in light of the vast differences in rates of criminal offending between whites and blacks.
You would never know it from the activists, but police shootings are responsible for a lower percentage of black homicide deaths than white and Hispanic homicide deaths. Twelve percent of all whites and Hispanics who die of homicide are killed by police officers, compared to 4 percent of black homicide victims.
 In Chicago in 2016, 2,870 people, mostly black, were shot. If you believed the Black Lives Matter narrative, you would assume that the assailants of those black victims were in large part cops. In fact, the police shot 17 people, most of whom were threatening lethal force, accounting for 0.6 percent of the total. That's most certainly not the "systemic problem" we were led to believe by BLM.

Ron Martinelli is a former police officer, a police detective. He served some 25 years in the San Jose Police Department. He now testifies as an expert witness on police procedure in cases around the country. He was kind enough to join us via Skype from Mexico. Mr. Martinelli, thank you so much for speaking with us.



3RU7AL
3RU7AL's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 14,582
3
4
9
3RU7AL's avatar
3RU7AL
3
4
9
-->
@Greyparrot
THE WAR ON DRUGS IS A WAR ON MINORITIES.

"Look, we understood we couldn't make it illegal to be young or poor or black in the United States, but we could criminalize their common pleasure.  We understood that drugs were not the health problem we were making them out to be, but it was such a perfect issue for the Nixon White House that we couldn't resist it. - John Ehrlichman, policy advisor to Richard Nixon - [LINK]

THE WAR ON DRUGS IS A WAR ON PERSONAL PRIVACY.

THE WAR ON DRUGS IS A WAR ON PERSONAL PROPERTY.

THE WAR ON DRUGS IS WHY WE ARE NOW LIVING IN A POLICE STATE.
Greyparrot
Greyparrot's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 26,010
3
4
10
Greyparrot's avatar
Greyparrot
3
4
10
-->
@3RU7AL
There are a multitude of policies from both parties designed to destroy the Black nuclear family, which is also one of BLM's stated goals.

zedvictor4
zedvictor4's avatar
Debates: 22
Posts: 12,083
3
3
6
zedvictor4's avatar
zedvictor4
3
3
6
All lives mattering is irrelevant.
Yep I think that this clearly reflects the BLM mantra.

I hold that BLM is nothing more than contradictory racism.

By protesting against difference, you inadvertently or deliberately promote difference....And by violently protesting you just provoke animosity.

If you want to get ahead  in society then WORK at it and earn respect, and this applies to everyone irrespective of skin tone.
3RU7AL
3RU7AL's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 14,582
3
4
9
3RU7AL's avatar
3RU7AL
3
4
9
-->
@Greyparrot
@zedvictor4
@Athias
Check this out,

Systemic Racism is Over,

Skip to 256 seconds,
3RU7AL
3RU7AL's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 14,582
3
4
9
3RU7AL's avatar
3RU7AL
3
4
9
-->
@Greyparrot
From your link,

Another M4BL demand is “the retroactive decriminalization, immediate release and record ­expungement of all drug-related offenses and prostitution and reparations for the devastating impact of the ‘war on drugs’ and criminalization of prostitution.”
This sounds like a phenomenal idea.

Please explain why you might consider this an "anti-white" policy.
3RU7AL
3RU7AL's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 14,582
3
4
9
3RU7AL's avatar
3RU7AL
3
4
9
-->
@Greyparrot
From your link,

The group’s radical Marxist agenda would supplant the basic building block of society — the family — with the state...
This is a laughably cartoonish STRAWMAN.  Nobody is even considering "supplanting" "the family" (brave new world style).

They've advocated for stronger social connections and cooperation with neighbors, this is a role that has traditionally been served by local CHURCHES.

Are you suggesting that CHURCHES are teh EVIL?

...and destroy the economic system that has lifted more people from poverty than any other.
The United States is ranked 27th in terms of social mobility, if you are born poor, you have a much better chance of "working your way to the top" in the other 26. [LINK]

And if you want to get technical, I mean, you know, raw numbers and not "percentages", then CHINA WINS BY A LANDSLIDE in the contest of "lifted more people from poverty than any other".
Greyparrot
Greyparrot's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 26,010
3
4
10
Greyparrot's avatar
Greyparrot
3
4
10
-->
@3RU7AL
This is a laughably cartoonish STRAWMAN.

How about you actually read the manifesto on the marxist BLM site before you yell STRAWMAN in a crowded forum.

"We disrupt the Western-prescribed nuclear family structure requirement by supporting each other as extended families and “villages” that collectively care for one another, especially our children, to the degree that mothers, parents, and children are comfortable."

Greyparrot
Greyparrot's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 26,010
3
4
10
Greyparrot's avatar
Greyparrot
3
4
10
"We disrupt the Western-prescribed nuclear family structure requirement by supporting each other as extended families and “villages” that collectively care for one another, especially our children, to the degree that mothers, parents, and children are comfortable."


BLM purposefully put the word village in quotations because a village is a state, not a parent.  They purposefully use the word Collective (another euphemism for the communist state) and also purposely left out the word Father. That word is absent in 77% of black households as well.

Most Churches support Western culture and intact nuclear families. That's exactly not part of the BLM creed.
Greyparrot
Greyparrot's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 26,010
3
4
10
Greyparrot's avatar
Greyparrot
3
4
10
-->
@3RU7AL
The United States is ranked 27th

BLM isn't interested in reforming crony capitalism or making the USA more like Singapore or Hong Kong or New Zealand in terms of economic freedom.


All of those countries have minimal state interaction on the economic level.
3RU7AL
3RU7AL's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 14,582
3
4
9
3RU7AL's avatar
3RU7AL
3
4
9
-->
@Greyparrot
"We disrupt the Western-prescribed nuclear family structure requirement by supporting each other as extended families and “villages” that collectively care for one another, especially our children, to the degree that mothers, parents, and children are comfortable."
In exactly the same way members of a CHURCH help take care of each other's children and the sick and elderly and families in crisis.
3RU7AL
3RU7AL's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 14,582
3
4
9
3RU7AL's avatar
3RU7AL
3
4
9
-->
@Greyparrot
BLM isn't interested in reforming crony capitalism or making the USA more like Singapore or Hong Kong or New Zealand in terms of economic freedom.


All of those countries have minimal state interaction on the economic level.
The red-herring you've presented still does nothing to support your claim that, "the [USA] economic system has lifted more people from poverty than any other."
Greyparrot
Greyparrot's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 26,010
3
4
10
Greyparrot's avatar
Greyparrot
3
4
10
-->
@3RU7AL
In exactly the same way members of a CHURCH help take care of each other's children and the sick and elderly and families in crisis.

Please stop lying.


Most Churches support Western culture and intact nuclear families. That's exactly not part of the BLM creed.

"We disrupt the Western-prescribed nuclear family structure requirement by supporting each other as extended families and “villages” that collectively care for one another, especially our children, to the degree that mothers, parents, and children are comfortable."
Greyparrot
Greyparrot's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 26,010
3
4
10
Greyparrot's avatar
Greyparrot
3
4
10
-->
@3RU7AL
the [USA] economic system

Why do you have USA in brackets? Sounds like you are strawmanning something in there. It clearly could be referring to another economic system, such as [NoN CRONY] capitalism.



you know, the type of non-crony capitalism exhibited by the top 10 nations on this list perhaps. Or is your agenda narrative axe too thirsty for blood?

3RU7AL
3RU7AL's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 14,582
3
4
9
3RU7AL's avatar
3RU7AL
3
4
9
-->
@Greyparrot
"We disrupt the Western-prescribed nuclear family structure requirement by supporting each other as extended families and “villages” that collectively care for one another, especially our children, to the degree that mothers, parents, and children are comfortable."

They are specifically rejecting the idea that a family MUST have both a mother and a father in the home because such a high percentage of their men are incarcerated.

They are specifically advocating for building stronger ties with extended family members and neighbors.  EXACTLY LIKE A LOCAL CHURCH.
3RU7AL
3RU7AL's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 14,582
3
4
9
3RU7AL's avatar
3RU7AL
3
4
9
-->
@Greyparrot
Why do you have USA in brackets?
It's common practice to include brackets if a word is added to a quote.
Greyparrot
Greyparrot's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 26,010
3
4
10
Greyparrot's avatar
Greyparrot
3
4
10
-->
@3RU7AL
It's common practice to include brackets if a word is added to a quote.

Maybe you should stop making shit up then.


Or is your agenda narrative axe too thirsty for blood?
Greyparrot
Greyparrot's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 26,010
3
4
10
Greyparrot's avatar
Greyparrot
3
4
10
-->
@3RU7AL
EXACTLY LIKE

Support and disrupt are antonyms. Dictionary says your reasoning is wrong.