Why is the US still involved with Israel

Author: TheUnderdog

Posts

Total: 39
#31
fauxlaw
fauxlaw's avatar
Debates: 77
Posts: 3,565
4
7
10
fauxlaw's avatar
fauxlaw
4
7
10
-->
@triangle.128k
1. The Temple Mont is not the entire land of Palestine.
The Temple  Mount is entirely within the area claimed by Palestinians. Their claim, notwithstanding, ignores the proper ownership of the Temple Mount, and its surrounding land which is within the entire area that is, today, East Jerusalem and was the Old City. I say that not as a Christian, though I am, but as an historian aware of property ownership and its historic rights, regardless of duration of time.

according to Christianity, God's chosen people are the Christians 
That is a blanket statement that is difficult to substantiate by scholarship. You confuse a distinction that is clearly evident in biblical text, and I speak of the most ancient texts, the Torah, and the Greek Septuagint, which both specify the House of Israel as chosen people; "Israel" being, not the political entity today, but the house of the prophet, Jacob, grandson of Abraham and Sarah, re-named Israel, and his twelve sons, one of whom was Judah, father of Jews. Christians, in the first century, consisted of converted Jews AND members of the other tribes, sons of Israel, and daughters, AND converted descendants of Ishmael, son of Abraham and Hagar, Sarah's maidservant and Abraham's concubine, AND converted gentiles [Romans, Greeks, etc.] which are, today, considered spiritually adopted children of the House of Israel [Jacob, not the country] It is this House of Israel who are "chosen people."

It truly is amazing how many so called "Christians" in the west, and so called "Jews" in the east have been indoctrinated in some other understanding, such as yours.
#32
triangle.128k
triangle.128k's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 502
3
2
6
triangle.128k's avatar
triangle.128k
3
2
6
-->
@fauxlaw
The Temple  Mount is entirely within the area claimed by Palestinians. Their claim, notwithstanding, ignores the proper ownership of the Temple Mount, and its surrounding land which is within the entire area that is, today, East Jerusalem and was the Old City. I say that not as a Christian, though I am, but as an historian aware of property ownership and its historic rights, regardless of duration of time.
The "proper ownership" of Temple Mont from a secular view is heavily disputable considering that there's differing interpretations and the like from various "Abrahamic religions." But from a Christian perspective, the Jews are dissenters against God and do not hold legitimacy in claiming the holy site. It therefore belongs not to the Israelis considering that it's a Jewish state that discriminates against Christians.


That is a blanket statement that is difficult to substantiate by scholarship. You confuse a distinction that is clearly evident in biblical text, and I speak of the most ancient texts, the Torah, and the Greek Septuagint, which both specify the House of Israel as chosen people; "Israel" being, not the political entity today, but the house of the prophet, Jacob, grandson of Abraham and Sarah, re-named Israel, and his twelve sons, one of whom was Judah, father of Jews. Christians, in the first century, consisted of converted Jews AND members of the other tribes, sons of Israel, and daughters, AND converted descendants of Ishmael, son of Abraham and Hagar, Sarah's maidservant and Abraham's concubine, AND converted gentiles [Romans, Greeks, etc.] which are, today, considered spiritually adopted children of the House of Israel [Jacob, not the country] It is this House of Israel who are "chosen people."
You're correct in that the House of Israel is not the poliitical state but rather chosen people, and this does not refute my point one bit. The Christian Church is now the New Israel, it is a continuation of Old Israel. The Jews dissent from from the Christian Churcch and blaspheme Christ in the Talmud. They have therefore been cut off from Israel and will remain so without conversion. 

The Church fathers and early Christians recognized this, only now do we have swarms of brainwashed Zionist "Christians" defending the interests of Jews above their own faith. Israel is a state that regularly persecutes Palestinian Christians; no true Christian would be supportive of this apartheid state.
#33
fauxlaw
fauxlaw's avatar
Debates: 77
Posts: 3,565
4
7
10
fauxlaw's avatar
fauxlaw
4
7
10
-->
@triangle.128k
But from a Christian perspective,
Is there but one perspective? Nope. Better understand that rapido-speedo

Nor is there a singular Jewish perspective. Palestinians? Let me count the ways...
#34
triangle.128k
triangle.128k's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 502
3
2
6
triangle.128k's avatar
triangle.128k
3
2
6
-->
@fauxlaw
Is there but one perspective? Nope. Better understand that rapido-speedo

And of we were to accomodate all perspectives, then the state controlling the land of Palestine would tolerate all faiths. The state proposed by the Arab League would have accomplished this while also allowing tolerance to the Jews in spite of their British-encouraged settlemments flaring up tensions with local Palestinians. The state of Israel, on the other hand, regularly persecutes Arabs - Christian and Muslim alike.

#35
TheRealNihilist
TheRealNihilist's avatar
Debates: 44
Posts: 4,920
4
9
11
TheRealNihilist's avatar
TheRealNihilist
4
9
11
-->
@TheUnderdog

Read this. Whiteflame part of course. 

They do give stuff in return. Israel is not the cause nor a big enough reason for why the US is bad in the middle east. It is the knack of presidents just loving to go to war with the middle east. I thought that would be obvious. 

#36
triangle.128k
triangle.128k's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 502
3
2
6
triangle.128k's avatar
triangle.128k
3
2
6
-->
@TheRealNihilist
Israel is not the cause nor a big enough reason for why the US is bad in the middle east.
It's not the only reason but lol it's definitely a reason up there, the vast majority of the middle east absolutely hates and loathes Israel. In return, that carries over to the United States.
#37
TheRealNihilist
TheRealNihilist's avatar
Debates: 44
Posts: 4,920
4
9
11
TheRealNihilist's avatar
TheRealNihilist
4
9
11
-->
@triangle.128k
It's not the only reason but lol it's definitely a reason up there, the vast majority of the middle east absolutely hates and loathes Israel. In return, that carries over to the United States.
Stemming from things that US can't even dream of solving so the best they can do is make sure Israel is safe just maybe making more deals instead of removing a successful Iran Nuclear Deal. 
#38
triangle.128k
triangle.128k's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 502
3
2
6
triangle.128k's avatar
triangle.128k
3
2
6
Stemming from things that US can't even dream of solving so the best
I'm not saying we would suddenly befriend everybody in the middle east but abandoning Israel certainly opens up a great amount of opportunity to improve our relations with other nations there. There's no reason for us to continue supporting Israel.
#39
Dr.Franklin
Dr.Franklin's avatar
Debates: 32
Posts: 10,673
4
7
11
Dr.Franklin's avatar
Dr.Franklin
4
7
11
oh and it is becuase of evangical christians who believe in a propechy in the book of Esther

they have higher approval ratings of israel then even Jews in the US!