Mafia games are not self-regulating.

Author: RationalMadman
Law
Threats
rules
safety
Police

Posts

Total: 36
Topic's author
#1
RationalMadman
RationalMadman's avatar
Debates: 574
Posts: 19,931
10
11
11
RationalMadman's avatar
RationalMadman
10
11
11
I have seen first-hand with bsh1 that what is said in  Mafia games can get you punished. This is actually correct. 

I was told by Ragnar that it's okay for a user I'll happily name in this OP but can't so that it's not a callout thread, that they'd tase my genitals IRL as a passing joke in a mafia game to highlight that I 'owed them' some information and they'd torture me for it if this was IRL (they genuinely said this). Because the user is Ragnar's favourite, it's been oushed away as a passing joke.

I will be sure to show many others this comment if ever they compliment this fucktard teacher's pet user and I promise that this comment will not be forgiven until this user admits what they said was a threat, was wrong and that it in no shape or form deserves leniency.
Topic's author
#2
RationalMadman
RationalMadman's avatar
Debates: 574
Posts: 19,931
10
11
11
RationalMadman's avatar
RationalMadman
10
11
11
In order to justify to me that Mafia games are not subject to CoC, I was told by Ragnar that a racist pedophile who was banned for 90 days for this (only permanent as he bypassed via alts) was held under a lenient light for what he saod in magia games. I guess this is justified now. 
Topic's author
#3
RationalMadman
RationalMadman's avatar
Debates: 574
Posts: 19,931
10
11
11
RationalMadman's avatar
RationalMadman
10
11
11
I will not stand for this abuse whatsoever. That's all I will say. I quit this website for real now until rules are established. Idc to ask for a 'ban', this is beyond forgiveness or anything.
#4
Crocodile
Crocodile's avatar
Debates: 22
Posts: 1,156
3
4
10
Crocodile's avatar
Crocodile
3
4
10
-->
@RationalMadman
I agree. If you said that, then you would probably get a temp ban.

But, everyone has favorites so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
#5
Vader
Vader's avatar
Debates: 30
Posts: 14,984
5
8
11
Vader's avatar
Vader
5
8
11
-->
@RationalMadman
I thought you didn’t like bsh
#6
ILikePie5
ILikePie5's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 15,158
3
7
10
ILikePie5's avatar
ILikePie5
3
7
10
-->
@Vader
Pretty sure he has everyone blocked anyways. No one cares about anything he has to say
#7
Barney
Barney's avatar
Debates: 53
Posts: 3,463
5
9
10
Barney's avatar
Barney
5
9
10
-->
@RationalMadman
@Crocodile
Mafia is a social deduction game where people apply targeted pressure and figuratively kill each other to advance the game. By partaking in the game, you implicitly consent to the game-play. Much like if you play Call of Duty, your avatar is probably going to get shot.

Making matters worse,  users have special roles with special powers. A user might be assigned the role of suicide bomber, and we mods are not going to ban them from the site for terrorism when they use said role; nor if they pretend to have it as part of their game-play. This applies to various other roles, to which someone may slip in a phrase to imply they have it.

With having not banned Wylted for his behavior in Mafia (even when I would have liked to), the claim that this is only happening due to favoritism is rendered absurd.

All of this is when the user in question was in fact already publicly given a soft warning ("please tone it down in future"). Which makes this thread feel like a demand to ban anyone who makes an ugly hypothetical comment in Mafia.

This is not to say CoC violations in Mafia are not reviewed, but they need to be a lot worse for us to step in. Examples:
  • If someone excessively doxes (speculation about timezone is just research), I'll step in.
  • If someone makes a threat to track you down in real life over the content of the game, I'll step in.

I of course do advise killing people in game for what they say. Give me the in game role of vigilante, I'll probably shoot the rudest person if I don't have active reason to suspect someone else of being scum (pretty sure as scum I've used night kills for this too).
#8
Crocodile
Crocodile's avatar
Debates: 22
Posts: 1,156
3
4
10
Crocodile's avatar
Crocodile
3
4
10
-->
@Barney
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Topic's author
#9
RationalMadman
RationalMadman's avatar
Debates: 574
Posts: 19,931
10
11
11
RationalMadman's avatar
RationalMadman
10
11
11
-->
@Barney
@ILikePie5
Solely for finishing my debates I have returned. Both for my own ego's sake, yes, but also because I don't see a reason to waste my opponent's time and effort, especially if they've worked hard. Additionally, after some time to meditate, truly calm down and deal with other shit, I have realised that I merely need to avoid mafia completely as I was previously and also definitely stay off the Discord and I'll be fine. (I am busy IRL atm, it was part of the stress that led me to take this unbelievably sick threat by Oromagi all the more seriously than really it may have been meant).

To be very frank with you, I do not for a single second believe or understand your perspective here and in the future I am certain you will look back on this and question what on Earth led you to have such a lapse in judgement. While not so severe this time around, you outright admit that your leniency on Wylted is part of what ended up with him still being around (and which Mr. "I like Pie" who says nobody cares what I say is simply salty about being reminded was a user that he helped win Survivor games and was buddy-buddy with).

Out of respect for you and also out of an urge to leave this on a note that doesn't imply I am just a crybaby trying to stain the reputation of this website, let's carefully analyse what you're saying and show how you are the one disrespecting the sanctity of DART's rules and moderation's intergity, not me.

  1. Even if we set morality completely aside, to pressure players in Mafia to have to waste nightkills and lynches on players who are violating the Code of Conduct (CoC) of this website is absurd. Do you understand that? You are forcing players to need to waste strategic moves and erroneously get rid of otherwise suboptimal players-to-remove because of your lack of enforcement. That is outrageous to suggest is fair on those players who have the power to play much smarter 'for the win' in those games.
  2. What was said to me was in no shape or form a playful reference to an in-game action. He even specifically said 'IRL' it seriously scared, enraged and much else for me as the game was full of players like Mr. "I like Pie" here who jeered him on and taunted me more and more, leading me to irrationally refuse to give in and claim when in the end I actually should have done before the last vote came. I felt humiliated, threatened and extremely stressed (also due to factors outside of the game but it all added up).
  3. You are suggesting that somehow CoC are less severely applied in Mafia games yet absolutely nothing in the CoC states this at all.
That's all I have to say on the matter. You do have favourites and this is partly due to that (I am glad a user posting here agreed with me). This drama is so severe that User_2006 felt a need to quit the site (whether or not he's made a new account) despite still being involved in the game. That is how disgusting and wrong what has happened here is. Do I regret making this big drama? This time no, I don't. This is vile and you need to start enforcing your rules in those threads or 'forum games' will become the easiest thing for any other debate website or curious viewer of this website with some malignant agenda, to use to smear campaign DART. That's all, goodbye.
#10
ILikePie5
ILikePie5's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 15,158
3
7
10
ILikePie5's avatar
ILikePie5
3
7
10
That's all, goodbye.
Have a nice day.
#11
Barney
Barney's avatar
Debates: 53
Posts: 3,463
5
9
10
Barney's avatar
Barney
5
9
10
-->
@RationalMadman
it seriously scared, enraged and much else for me 
I'm sorry you're scared. However, this is part of why the CoC directly stipulates employment of a reasonable person standard.

Unless I'm missing context from some other dialog you had with the user in question, no suggestion of any intent to track you down was made. What I see is a hypothetical statement reflecting on a bizarre scenario which would never happen in real life, even were you two to somehow meet.


absolutely nothing in the CoC states this at all
"The specific consequence will depend on the severity and frequency of the violations, along with user history, context, and other relevant factors."

If you wish all targeted references to violence to in mafia to result in an auto-ban, start a MEEP about it (seriously, I'll fully support your efforts, and abide by whatever people want). You could do another question to prevent any bullying of people in Mafia.  Etc.


You do have favourites and this is partly due to that
You can repeat that claim a dozen more times, and it won't make the standard applied to many users suddenly be about that (I lost count of how many he insulted me complaints we used to get over mafia).
Topic's author
#12
RationalMadman
RationalMadman's avatar
Debates: 574
Posts: 19,931
10
11
11
RationalMadman's avatar
RationalMadman
10
11
11
-->
@Barney
I have an extremely vivid imagination and this is both a blessing and a curse. Let me tell you that when I read something gory, I imagine it there, in reality, especially if I'm already stressed. Furthermore, I can tell you that me aside, others with similar imagination-depth and reading comprehension skills would not leave reading what he wrote not imagining it happening. This isn't about a physical safety issie, it's about a mental one.

You can turn this on me and say 'poor baby RM quit the site for your mental safety' or you can drop the act, be humble and admit you misjudged the situation. The CoC is 80+% for protecting emotional distress and displeasure of users as a result of how others use the platform and interact with the other users. It is this majority-context issue that was most severely violated. I don't think you understand that some people truly imagine what they read out there in front of them, the entire fictional literature industry is funded by them/us.

Topic's author
#13
RationalMadman
RationalMadman's avatar
Debates: 574
Posts: 19,931
10
11
11
RationalMadman's avatar
RationalMadman
10
11
11
-->
@Barney
Why is it ok to say that just because it's a mafia game? Why is it ever okay to say what he said???
#14
ILikePie5
ILikePie5's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 15,158
3
7
10
ILikePie5's avatar
ILikePie5
3
7
10
Why is it ok to say that just because it's a mafia game? Why is it ever okay to say what he said???
No one but you sees it as a legitimate threat dude. 
Topic's author
#15
RationalMadman
RationalMadman's avatar
Debates: 574
Posts: 19,931
10
11
11
RationalMadman's avatar
RationalMadman
10
11
11
-->
@ILikePie5
Even if the threat is not legitimate, why is it okay to say what he said at all?
#16
ILikePie5
ILikePie5's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 15,158
3
7
10
ILikePie5's avatar
ILikePie5
3
7
10
Even if the threat is not legitimate, why is it okay to say what he said at all?
First Amendment. Specifically Brandenburg v. Ohio
Topic's author
#17
RationalMadman
RationalMadman's avatar
Debates: 574
Posts: 19,931
10
11
11
RationalMadman's avatar
RationalMadman
10
11
11
-->
@ILikePie5
I am actually not alone in seeing it as unacceptable, even Crocodile posted here and the drama clearly was a factor in User_2006 quitting his account.

When you say phrases like 'literally noone' you fail to understand that on this website, my threads do actually gain traction and people (even haters of me) do pay attention and care what is said and thought about. You are correct that originally it was just a thing that a minority of people in the game (because the game was majority toxic and/or indifferent) cared about. I am actually happy to be out of that game only because I don't want to type anymore in that environment with you and Oromagi. You are both extremely toxic players and people, he's just passive-aggressive about it.

It was Oromagi who coined the term 'ratman' and who even just calls me 'rat' at times. He knows it pisses me off but does it anyway, he is a sadistic person who engages in his sadism in a slow, controlled manner. This was one of the first times that the real him shone through in an outburst that I do believe is due to him being drunk/high for all I know. That is not an excuse, it is an explanation.
Topic's author
#18
RationalMadman
RationalMadman's avatar
Debates: 574
Posts: 19,931
10
11
11
RationalMadman's avatar
RationalMadman
10
11
11
-->
@ILikePie5
First Amendment doesn't fucking apply to a privately owned website, on top of that it is not a first amendment right to say that you will put a taser to someone's genitals IRL or even that you want to, especially if you're expressing that want directly to the person.

I do not need your BS, stay off my thread. 
#19
ILikePie5
ILikePie5's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 15,158
3
7
10
ILikePie5's avatar
ILikePie5
3
7
10
You are both extremely toxic players and people
You’re entitled to your opinion. No one has had a problem with us for a couple of years except you.
#20
ILikePie5
ILikePie5's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 15,158
3
7
10
ILikePie5's avatar
ILikePie5
3
7
10
First Amendment doesn't fucking apply to a privately owned website, on top of that it is not a first amendment right to say that you will put a taser to someone's genitals IRL or even that you want to, especially if you're expressing that want directly to the person.

I do not need your BS, stay off my thread. 
Mod already said it was fine so it was fine. And maybe you should actually read the precedent set in the court case.
Topic's author
#21
RationalMadman
RationalMadman's avatar
Debates: 574
Posts: 19,931
10
11
11
RationalMadman's avatar
RationalMadman
10
11
11
-->
@ILikePie5
No one has had a problem with us for a couple of years except you.
That is a complete lie but if you do actually believe that it is not my responsibility to make you realise how disliked you are, I am not a bully like you. Go and believe you are liked, just know that it's not by me and I don't go to your threads or whatever and cause you hassle or say noone cares what you say, any opportunity that I get to say that.
Topic's author
#22
RationalMadman
RationalMadman's avatar
Debates: 574
Posts: 19,931
10
11
11
RationalMadman's avatar
RationalMadman
10
11
11
-->
@ILikePie5
Mod already said it was fine so it was fine. 
That is not how it works unless your definition of 'fine' is that he got away with it.
#23
ILikePie5
ILikePie5's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 15,158
3
7
10
ILikePie5's avatar
ILikePie5
3
7
10
That is a complete lie but if you do actually believe that it is not my responsibility to make you realise how disliked you are, I am not a bully like you. Go and believe you are liked, just know that it's not by me and I don't go to your threads or whatever and cause you hassle or say noone cares what you say any opportunity that I get to say that.
Let’s see. Who hates me? You. Anyone else? And I’m not the one blocking people cause I’m triggered.
#24
ILikePie5
ILikePie5's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 15,158
3
7
10
ILikePie5's avatar
ILikePie5
3
7
10
That is not how it works unless your definition of 'fine' is that he got away with it.
Well guess what? What the mod says is practically final. You don’t have to like, but the action has been taken.
Topic's author
#25
RationalMadman
RationalMadman's avatar
Debates: 574
Posts: 19,931
10
11
11
RationalMadman's avatar
RationalMadman
10
11
11
-->
@ILikePie5
Yes, others do too but they are quiet about it. 

When you say 'hate' you are changing the word 'dislike'. I actually am starting to resent you deeper than just dislike though, the more you are interacting with me on this thread. The reason I do not 'hate' you, aside from how little you matter to me, is that I know you are a toxic personality who cannot help what you are doing. You are not actually out to hurt me, you are out to hurt and rile up anyone who is weak and an easy target. The evidence is in the history of your posts and frequency with which you spam this emoji for no apparent reason:

😂😂😂😂


You enjoy people feeling laughed at by you. You relish in their agony as they type a lot to battle your few lines of humiliating bullying but the difference between your usual victim and me is that I know you are doing this, I am typing for others to read. Now, I will stop as I have said enough, you are irrelevant to this thread and your perspective on this is undeniably biased.
Topic's author
#26
RationalMadman
RationalMadman's avatar
Debates: 574
Posts: 19,931
10
11
11
RationalMadman's avatar
RationalMadman
10
11
11
-->
@ILikePie5
Well guess what? What the mod says is practically final. You don’t have to like, but the action has been taken.
This is a debate website, there are MEEP referendums on the code of conduct and enforcement of it and on top of all of that, I have explained very clearly why it is not me 'disliking' the action that makes it wrong but clear-cut elements of hypocrisy and genuine distress of victims that need a serious rule-enforcement change for people not just like myself but like speedrace when Wylted/Singularity was racist to him and whoever else suffered under trolls in Mafia games.

This is not about you, you literally are not involved in this thread. Shake your pom-poms for Ragnar all you want and tell me no-one cares what I say, while caring what I say and replying to me. It doesn't matter to me.
Topic's author
#27
RationalMadman
RationalMadman's avatar
Debates: 574
Posts: 19,931
10
11
11
RationalMadman's avatar
RationalMadman
10
11
11
-->
@Barney
Has your mind changed on enforcing when someone keeps harassing me in my thread and I ask them to leave me alone? If not, please display your lack of bias. The reason I am asking you this publicly is that I see no reason to keep things hush-hush. 
#28
ILikePie5
ILikePie5's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 15,158
3
7
10
ILikePie5's avatar
ILikePie5
3
7
10
Yes, others do too but they are quiet about it. 

When you say 'hate' you are changing the word 'dislike'. I actually am starting to resent you deeper than just dislike though, the more you are interacting with me on this thread. The reason I do not 'hate' you, aside from how little you matter to me, is that I know you are a toxic personality who cannot help what you are doing. You are not actually out to hurt me, you are out to hurt and rile up anyone who is weak and an easy target. The evidence is in the history of your posts and frequency with which you spam this emoji for no apparent reason:

😂😂😂😂


You enjoy people feeling laughed at by you. You relish in their agony as they type a lot to battle your few lines of humiliating bullying but the difference between your usual victim and me is that I know you are doing this, I am typing for others to read. Now, I will stop as I have said enough, you are irrelevant to this thread and your perspective on this is undeniably biased.
Wow that’s some serious analysis. My emoji use makes me a terrible person? Ya you’re like the only one I know who has a bunch of people blocked because you ‘dislike’ them. You’re entitled to your opinion. Don’t expect that you won’t hear the opposing viewpoint you hold, because if it isn’t me, it’s another. There will always be people with opposing viewpoints. Deal with it. You can’t hide forever from opposing viewpoints
#29
ILikePie5
ILikePie5's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 15,158
3
7
10
ILikePie5's avatar
ILikePie5
3
7
10
This is a debate website, there are MEEP referendums on the code of conduct and enforcement of it and on top of all of that, I have explained very clearly why it is not me 'disliking' the action that makes it wrong but clear-cut elements of hypocrisy and genuine distress of victims that need a serious rule-enforcement change for people not just like myself but like speedrace when Wylted/Singularity was racist to him and whoever else suffered under trolls in Mafia games.

This is not about you, you literally are not involved in this thread. Shake your pom-poms for Ragnar all you want and tell me no-one cares what I say, while caring what I say and replying to me. It doesn't matter to me.
Post your referendum. I’ll be a waiting to vote.
#30
ILikePie5
ILikePie5's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 15,158
3
7
10
ILikePie5's avatar
ILikePie5
3
7
10
Has your mind changed on enforcing when someone keeps harassing me in my thread and I ask them to leave me alone? If not, please display your lack of bias. The reason I am asking you this publicly is that I see no reason to keep things hush-hush. 
It’s called a forum for a reason.