HATE: YOUR MOST POWERFUL WEAPON

Author: 3RU7AL
Ethics
Philosophy
logiczombie
Libertarian
intp

Posts

Total: 45
Topic's author
#1
3RU7AL
3RU7AL's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 14,582
3
4
9
3RU7AL's avatar
3RU7AL
3
4
9
When women hate men, it's because they believe (falsely) that men have the "best deal" and the gain of one is at the expense of the other.

When "non-whites" hate "whites", it's because they believe (falsely) that "whites" have the "best deal" and the gain of one is at the expense of the other.

When "liberals" hate "conservatives", it's because they believe (falsely) that "conservatives" have the "best deal" and the gain of one is at the expense of the other.

And when "whites" hate "non-whites", it's because they believe (falsely) that "non-whites" have the "best deal" and the gain of one is at the expense of the other.

And when men hate "feminists", it's because they believe (falsely) that "feminists" have the "best deal" and the gain of one is at the expense of the other.

And when "conservatives" hate "liberals", it's because they believe (falsely) that "liberals" have the "best deal" and the gain of one is at the expense of the other.

ALL OF THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT OUR CORPORATE OWNERS NEED. 

THE POOR FIGHTING EACH OTHER FOR A SLIGHTLY LARGER CUT OF THE TOXIC GARBAGE HEAP.

Special thanks to @oldoneeye

Click to watch 3 minutes,

#2
Discipulus_Didicit
Discipulus_Didicit's avatar
Debates: 9
Posts: 5,758
3
4
10
Discipulus_Didicit's avatar
Discipulus_Didicit
3
4
10
Didn't watch your link and probably won't, but yeah this sounds pretty accurate to me.
#3
RationalMadman
RationalMadman's avatar
Debates: 574
Posts: 19,931
10
11
11
RationalMadman's avatar
RationalMadman
10
11
11
-->
@3RU7AL
Fascinating. You say this:
When "non-whites" hate "whites"
and this:

When women hate men
yet in these 2 cases, the most irrationality has come out in your conclusions. It is not hatred, but a seeking of making things fair. Ironically, hate-groups tends to form among the elite ethnicities, genders etc to maintain their supremacy as they get really agitated when equalisers show up.

Give me examples in history of 'hatred' towards the Elite and I'll give you at least at a ratio of 5:1, cases of the Elite themselves forming hate-groups in order to kick the struggling minority while they're down.

You are preaching nonsense based on the idea that what the Nazis did to the Jews is somehow equal to the emotional resentment that the latter may feel after the fact, towards the actions of former. What must be done to 'set a wrong right' often involves deeply passionate drive to get going, that doesn't equate to 'hate' it equates to anger perhaps. It is not the people who are hated, it is the corrupt system and imbalance.
Topic's author
#4
3RU7AL
3RU7AL's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 14,582
3
4
9
3RU7AL's avatar
3RU7AL
3
4
9
-->
@Discipulus_Didicit
Thanks.  The link is to an amazing George Carlin clip ("it's a big club, and you ain't in it").
#5
Discipulus_Didicit
Discipulus_Didicit's avatar
Debates: 9
Posts: 5,758
3
4
10
Discipulus_Didicit's avatar
Discipulus_Didicit
3
4
10
I mean there are literaly fully grown adults that unironically use toddler words like 'left' and 'right' in serious discussions about politics. If that alone doesn't raise a bunch of red flags right off the bat then you're pretty much hopeless.
#6
Discipulus_Didicit
Discipulus_Didicit's avatar
Debates: 9
Posts: 5,758
3
4
10
Discipulus_Didicit's avatar
Discipulus_Didicit
3
4
10
-->
@RationalMadman
yet in these 2 cases, the most irrationality has come out in your conclusions.

Do males or females actually have any advantage over eachother? Not really.

Does any particular race actually have any advantage over any others? Not really.

Do rich people have an advantage over those that are not rich? Yes, and advantage increases if the lower and middle classes distract themselves with petty nonsense believing that their neighbor is their enemy when in reality there is no enemy.
Topic's author
#7
3RU7AL
3RU7AL's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 14,582
3
4
9
3RU7AL's avatar
3RU7AL
3
4
9
-->
@RationalMadman
Give me examples in history of 'hatred' towards the elite and I'll give you at least at a ratio of 5:1, cases of the Elite themselves forming hate-groups in order to kick the struggling minority while they're down.
Well stated.

You are preaching nonsense based on the idea that what the Nazis did to the Jews is somehow equal to the emotional resentment that the latter may feel after the fact, towards the actions of former.
Do you believe that ALL modern-day Germans are "responsible" for the "plight" of modern-day Israelis (they seem to be doing reasonably well by most measures)?

What must be done to 'set a wrong right' often involves deeply passionate drive to get going, that doesn't equate to 'hate' it equates to anger perhaps. It is not the people who are hated, it is the corrupt system and imbalance.
I sort-of agree with you generally, but the core "problem" is "the broad-brush fallacy", NOT an entire category of our fellow humans ("whites", "germans", "non-whites", "women", or "men") and NOT an amorphous "system".

All of this HATE (anger) is being misdirected toward EACH OTHER and away from OUR OWNERS.
Topic's author
#8
3RU7AL
3RU7AL's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 14,582
3
4
9
3RU7AL's avatar
3RU7AL
3
4
9
-->
@Discipulus_Didicit
Do rich people have an advantage over those that are not rich? Yes, and advantage increases if the lower and middle classes distract themselves with petty nonsense believing that their neighbor is their enemy when in reality there is no enemy.
Well stated.

By the way, "middle class" starts at $100,000.00 per year.

Most "working class" people like to call themselves "middle class" which only exacerbates the "problem".
#9
bmdrocks21
bmdrocks21's avatar
Debates: 6
Posts: 2,798
4
6
11
bmdrocks21's avatar
bmdrocks21
4
6
11
-->
@3RU7AL
Perhaps a bit over-simplified, but I could definitely see all of these attempts at division being to insulate rich people. If you are too distracted by each other, you won't focus on them. Notice how they all support the ridiculous and purposely divisive "bLaCk LiVeS mAtTeR" movement and give millions to it. It is obviously in their interests to do so.


However, these corporations also lobbied to create a multicultural country and there are legitimate reasons for cultures to reject each other and not unite. Maybe there are metaphorical "bigger fish to fry", but cultural divisions are some of the deepest.
#10
RationalMadman
RationalMadman's avatar
Debates: 574
Posts: 19,931
10
11
11
RationalMadman's avatar
RationalMadman
10
11
11
-->
@Discipulus_Didicit
Do males or females actually have any advantage over eachother? Not really.

Does any particular race actually have any advantage over any others? Not really.
Rather than nitpick the biology and prove you wrong for the sake of it (semantically) which will prove advantages on both sides due to variation, let's stick with economics and history.

When the 'hatred' being referred to (which wasn't towards the men or whites, it was towards the system that favoured them) was around (and/or is around), there were undeniable advantages to being of a certain gender, ethnicity and sexual orientation and identification that were made most blatant by how much you lacked compared to the others at an age when you're blatantly too young to have remotely earned your advantages vs disadvantages in life.

I could go into the details but you're surely smart enough to know you're lying when suggesting that certain ethnicities and genders weren't favoured severely in many cultures throughout history (not always the same ethnicities but usually always males).
#11
RationalMadman
RationalMadman's avatar
Debates: 574
Posts: 19,931
10
11
11
RationalMadman's avatar
RationalMadman
10
11
11
-->
@3RU7AL
You are lying by saying that the hatred is towards modern-day anything in the sense of people hated for their ancestors' history, that hatred itself is usually only done in situations where the haters are the favoured, majority and/or elite ethnicity. People who truly loathe the injustice of Nazism don't go and be Nazis themselves towards people of German ethnicity, this would be idiotic and hypocritical. While some do (wrongly) do this, especially due to an older mentality of the poeple themselves being the enemy rather than the system they were forced to be a part of, they are hardly the norm or trend to be describing.
#12
Dr.Franklin
Dr.Franklin's avatar
Debates: 32
Posts: 10,673
4
7
11
Dr.Franklin's avatar
Dr.Franklin
4
7
11
hmmm rm makes fair points
Topic's author
#13
3RU7AL
3RU7AL's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 14,582
3
4
9
3RU7AL's avatar
3RU7AL
3
4
9
-->
@bmdrocks21
However, these corporations also lobbied to create a multicultural country and there are legitimate reasons for cultures to reject each other and not unite.
It's handy to gather some kindling if you're planning on starting a fire at some point.

It is a terrible feeling to know how deep the plan goes. How far back... It is disheartening to say the least, when you know the pulse of our current populace's pineal glands...petrified..calcified...off.

When you can find things like this in the congressional record (I have been collecting many proofs such as this that explain our 'now'), it is hard to imagine a humanity breaking free, without some kind of 'divine' intervention... :

"If for the sake of Communism it is necessary for us to destroy 9/10ths of the people, we must not hesitate." "We must realize that our party's most powerful weapon is racial tensions. By propounding into the consciousness of the dark races that for centuries they have been oppressed by whites, we can mold them to the program of the Communist Party. In America we will aim for subtle victory. While inflaming the Negro minority against the whites, we will endeavor to instill in the whites a guilt complex for their exploitation of the Negros. We will aid the Negroes to rise in prominence in every walk of life, in the professions and in the world of sports and entertainment. With this prestige, the Negro will be able to intermarry with the whites and begin a process which will deliver America to our cause." Israel Cohen, A Racial Program for the Twentieth Century, 1912. Also in the Congressional Record, Vol. 103, p. 8559, June 7, 1957"
1912, yipes!

Topic's author
#14
3RU7AL
3RU7AL's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 14,582
3
4
9
3RU7AL's avatar
3RU7AL
3
4
9
-->
@RationalMadman
When the 'hatred' being referred to (which wasn't towards the men or whites, it was towards the system that favoured them) was around (and/or is around),
Yes, but rarely is "rage against the amorphous SYSTEM" effective and it most commonly manifests as A BROAD-BRUSH FALLACY against some category of our fellow humans.

...there were undeniable advantages to being of a certain gender, ethnicity and sexual orientation and identification that were made most blatant by how much you lacked compared to the others...
And I agree with you.  HOwEver, the (average working-class) individuals who unwittingly enjoyed this "advantage" (lack of disadvantage) are NOT "responsible" for it.

The beneficiaries are not the INSTIGATORS.

Therefore, modern-day Germans should not suffer "guilt" over WWII.
Topic's author
#15
3RU7AL
3RU7AL's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 14,582
3
4
9
3RU7AL's avatar
3RU7AL
3
4
9
-->
@RationalMadman
People who truly loathe the injustice of Nazism don't go and be Nazis themselves towards people
Have you even heard of the West Bank and or the Gaza Strip?
Topic's author
#16
3RU7AL
3RU7AL's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 14,582
3
4
9
3RU7AL's avatar
3RU7AL
3
4
9
-->
@RationalMadman
While some do (wrongly) do this, especially due to an older mentality of the poeple themselves being the enemy rather than the system they were forced to be a part of, they are hardly the norm or trend to be describing.
Being outraged at an amorphous "system" is clearly another RED HERRING.

Inevitably that outrage will spill out onto the nearest (perceived) proxy.
#17
Greyparrot
Greyparrot's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 26,006
3
4
10
Greyparrot's avatar
Greyparrot
3
4
10
I could go into the details but you're surely smart enough to know you're lying when suggesting that certain ethnicities and genders weren't favoured severely in many cultures throughout history (not always the same ethnicities but usually always males).
One only has to look at the 300 million aborted Chinese women under China's one-child policy.
#18
Greyparrot
Greyparrot's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 26,006
3
4
10
Greyparrot's avatar
Greyparrot
3
4
10
-->
@bmdrocks21
I read an article about why corporate America and many establishment leaders from both parties want to defund the police. The article first showed how Educational administrative leaders were replaced with Marxists, then Generals in the Pentagon were replaced with Marxist sympathizers, then Intelligence agencies were replaced with people who could be controlled by the Marxist leadership. The powerful rich have everything to gain by fundamentally transforming the USA into a Marxist nation.

So the real reason the powerful rich actively want to defund to the police is so that they can replace the current police leadership with controllable police leaders.
#19
bmdrocks21
bmdrocks21's avatar
Debates: 6
Posts: 2,798
4
6
11
bmdrocks21's avatar
bmdrocks21
4
6
11
-->
@3RU7AL
Holy cow, 1912???

Basically predicted everything that has happened in the last century.

This is precisely what happens when you allow these people to infiltrate your educational system.
#20
bmdrocks21
bmdrocks21's avatar
Debates: 6
Posts: 2,798
4
6
11
bmdrocks21's avatar
bmdrocks21
4
6
11
-->
@Greyparrot
Sounds like something I heard on Tucker Carlson.

Higher education has been ruined, alphabet agencies can't be trusted, just look at our military- even that is becoming fruity and incompetent.

The DAs won't even prosecute a lot of the rioters.

This system needs purged now.
Topic's author
#21
3RU7AL
3RU7AL's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 14,582
3
4
9
3RU7AL's avatar
3RU7AL
3
4
9
-->
@RationalMadman
I could go into the details but you're surely smart enough to know you're lying when suggesting that certain ethnicities and genders weren't favoured severely in many cultures throughout history (not always the same ethnicities but usually always males).
Sure, in some spheres, "men" generally "appear" to have some "advantages".

But who exactly are you going to call on to mindlessly sacrifice their lives in battle?

Click to watch 4 minutes,

I wouldn't really call that an "advantage".

And you're missing the most important point.

Each male is not personally "responsible" for their "advantage", therefore there is no BLAME and no GUILT.
#22
Discipulus_Didicit
Discipulus_Didicit's avatar
Debates: 9
Posts: 5,758
3
4
10
Discipulus_Didicit's avatar
Discipulus_Didicit
3
4
10
-->
@RationalMadman
favoured severely in many cultures throughout history (not always the same ethnicities but usually always males).
There are a number of people I could name that are of a different 'disfavored' gender or race than I that have much higher living standards than I and put in less work to maintain said living standards. Shall I make a list of names for you? This doesn't prove that their groups are favored over mine and I am not saying they are, but I see no reason not to say it disproves the idea that I am favored over them.
Topic's author
#23
3RU7AL
3RU7AL's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 14,582
3
4
9
3RU7AL's avatar
3RU7AL
3
4
9
-->
@Discipulus_Didicit
...but I see no reason not to say it disproves the idea that I am favored over them.
I'm pretty sure you're conflating specific cases with statistical probabilities.

Zip-code Destiny:

The stories we tell about ourselves — stories of success and stories of failure — often have their beginnings in the distant past. Sometimes, they start in our childhoods. Sometimes, before we were even born.

This idea may sound poetic, but when it comes to economic mobility, there's evidence to back it up. Raj Chetty, an economist at Harvard, is responsible for some of the most powerful evidence, drawing on data from many millions of Americans.

Raj has found that early variables in your life, from the quality of your kindergarten teacher to the neighborhood you grew up in, can have lasting effects. And those effects often result in dramatically divergent outcomes in different parts of the country.

#24
ebuc
ebuc's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 4,935
3
2
4
ebuc's avatar
ebuc
3
2
4
.."Special thanks to @oldoneeye"...

I think he has some issues since hes also pushing 'The War on Hydroxychloroquine"' bit.

Regeneron is already mass-producing their antibody shot cocktail of covid19, because they are so confident of their product being valid and approved by authorities.

Regeneron made the HIV cocktail. As soon as I read this Hydroxychlorquine conspiracy by oldeeye I became suspicious of them.
#25
Discipulus_Didicit
Discipulus_Didicit's avatar
Debates: 9
Posts: 5,758
3
4
10
Discipulus_Didicit's avatar
Discipulus_Didicit
3
4
10
-->
@3RU7AL
Raj has found that early variables in your life, from the quality of your kindergarten teacher to the neighborhood you grew up in, can have lasting effects.
Having a daddy with $200 mil in the bank is also a relevant variable from the early life to be fair.
#26
RationalMadman
RationalMadman's avatar
Debates: 574
Posts: 19,931
10
11
11
RationalMadman's avatar
RationalMadman
10
11
11
-->
@3RU7AL
I'm not going to bring up Hamas to dismiss your ridiculous comparison. Instead, I am officially announcing that I have exposed the hypocrisy and nonsense in your theory. Post what you want, it is a right-wing echo chamber from here on out.
Topic's author
#27
3RU7AL
3RU7AL's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 14,582
3
4
9
3RU7AL's avatar
3RU7AL
3
4
9
-->
@ebuc
I think he has some issues since hes also pushing 'The War on Hydroxychloroquine"' bit.
Hey, I've never been afraid to talk to the loonies!

You might even dig-up some great conversations like this one.
Topic's author
#28
3RU7AL
3RU7AL's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 14,582
3
4
9
3RU7AL's avatar
3RU7AL
3
4
9
-->
@RationalMadman
I'm not going to bring up Hamas to dismiss your ridiculous comparison. Instead, I am officially announcing that I have exposed the hypocrisy and nonsense in your theory. Post what you want, it is a right-wing echo chamber from here on out.
Hamas is a MOBSTER ORGANIZATION in exactly the same way your own government is a MOBSTER ORGANIZATION.

I've never identified as "right-wing" and I think it's hilarious you're rushing-to-disqualify me as such (another indirect ad hominem attack).

Have the Israelis used excessive force?  Yes.

Have the Israelis committed war-crimes?  Yes.

Have the Israelis trampled human-rights?  Yes.

Does this make the Palestinian people "good"?  No. 

Does this mean the Israelis have committed the exact same acts as their WWII oppressors?  No.

Nobody's forcing you to participate in this conversation.
#29
ebuc
ebuc's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 4,935
3
2
4
ebuc's avatar
ebuc
3
2
4
-->
@3RU7AL
..."Hey, I've never been afraid to talk to the loonies!"..

I'm not sure that site is one or more person of any particular slant i.e. they may just be like a news outlet that has very few filters, or people of opposite persuasions and the have agreed to take turns posting from their particular point of view.  I you catch my drift there.

I do talk to all degrees of rational, or not, logical, or not, common sense, or not, types here at DArt and elsewhere. Have to deal with the cards of humanity I'm dealt. I'm on another that is always on my case for arguing so when I found this debate and DArt I was so happy to have a place that encourages arguing. :--)

I find you to be one of the more rationa, logical common sense types around here, and have convey that message to you in past.

I do find much of RMadmen to be good stuff, but then he will pull a sucker punch ---below the belt or off-kilter---  on your me or others.

Then he,like some others, will ask me questions even as they block me. Immature at best. I have my off-kilter days, but have not or would not ever block any one unless they were  incessant hassle to me, and even then I have not ever blocked anyone here or at Debate.org



#30
fauxlaw
fauxlaw's avatar
Debates: 77
Posts: 3,565
4
7
10
fauxlaw's avatar
fauxlaw
4
7
10
While the original presentation offerers plenty of evidence of hate, I see nothing in the original presentation that comes close to demonstrating that it is the most powerful weapon. I submit that it is closer to the weakest weapon. It is the weapon of last resort when all other worthy weapons have failed to overwhelm a declared enemy because that hate most often expresses in the form of personal attack, the weakest and most unsupportable argument. I submit that the most powerful weapon is hate's opposite: love. It overwhelms with the the potential result that an enemy becomes a friend.