US States Mafia DP2

Author: Vader

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#121
drafterman
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Note: When TheHammer/Seventh had the gall to say that he had never played with me, Town-Budda poured over years-old DDO games just to prove him wrong. Yet when asked to back up his claim that waiving NK's at MYLO is SOP, is what Mafia generally does, is what game theory and logic demands, he can't provide a single example.

We just have to take his word that it happens - like - all the time.
#122
Buddamoose
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@drafterman
Budda is both voting me because he thinks I'm scum and agreeing with Vaarka's assessment that I'm town!

I didn't agree with him. The posts were literally just made and you can't stop yourself from disgenuinely shading them. 

I started out voting for you. I reconsidered and tried to parse through possibilities. You continue to make yourself look scummier by disgenuinely recounting/blatantly lying. So that possibility was far less likely because now you've started acting scummy AF. 

I said

"That's what I've been trying to get him to consider" 

Note, my apologies for not using "was". For someone who couldn't tell the difference between a question and a statement despite a question mark being used, pointing out mistakes inigrammar is rather hypocritical and laughable.

On top of that, "trying to get him to consider" 

Doesn't mean agreeing with his assessment. Rather considering something means you think carefully about something BEFORE making a decision. 

 to think about carefully: such as
a: to think of especially with regard to taking some action
Considering something doesn't mean agreeance with it. Your lack of consideration does however highlight you are far from town. Because a part of ur VTNL advocacy should have been that, but wasnt. Indicating you knew ahead of time there were no flavors. Probably because you know ur not cop, and the chance of flavored cop when only one cop is present is minimal. 

First you fail to differentiate between a question and a statement when a question mark is used. Then you fail to comprehend probabilities. Then you fail to comprehend language? 

I get that manufacturing scum reads is difficult. But man, ur SR of me is grasping at straws and WIFOM'd AF beyond

"Oh EmM GeE I HaVe A GuiLtY"



#123
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@Buddamoose
Reference a single DDO game where mafia waived a kill at MYLO, or GTFO.
#124
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You're entire argument is built around this single point that you can't defend.
#125
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@drafterman
Yet when asked to back up his claim that waiving NK's at MYLO is SOP, is what Mafia generally does, is what game theory and logic demands, he can't provide a single example.

I never said it was SoP. I again, asked if it was. Because it not being SoP seemed foolish AF given the outlined arguments. 

Why TF would I look thru DDO's archives, when my point still stands regardless of whether or not I even find such a game on DDO. Whether or not it's been done on DDO is irrelevant to it's being largely beneficial to mafia when town VTNL's

#126
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👏Theory👏crafting👏means👏shit👏if👏you👏can't👏back👏it👏up👏with👏actual👏examples👏

#127
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@Buddamoose
Reference a single DDO game where mafia waived a kill at MYLO, or GTFO.
#128
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@drafterman
You're entire argument is built around this single point that you can't defend.

No it's not. I've already explained why that doesn't matter. Because for it to, SoP on DDO has to always be correct. And mafia players on DDO must never research anything regardimg mafia, or have never played elsewhere other than DDO so as for it to never occur to anyone playing here. 



#129
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@Buddamoose
Reference a single DDO game where mafia waived a kill at MYLO, or GTFO.
#130
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All the players here are from DDO. So whether or not they've played elsewhere or studied elsewhere, that gambit never made its way into DDO scum-play. Your argument literally depends on DDO players suddenly and spontaneously deciding to adopt that gambit - out of nowhere.

Reference a single DDO game where mafia waived a kill at MYLO, or GTFO.
#131
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@drafterman
Omg👏there👏is👏a👏whole👏game👏theory👏section👏dedicated👏to👏no👏killing👏

There are also numerous discussions dedicated to it. 

You👏also👏don't👏understand👏theory👏crafting👏

Theorycraft (or theorycrafting) is the mathematical analysis of game mechanics to discover optimal strategies and tactics. Theorycraft often involves analyzing hidden systems or underlying game code in order to glean information that is not apparent during normal gameplay.
Normal gameplay actually doesn't have a damn thing to do with theorycrafting. Your point of, "bring up a game on DDO where its been done" is irrelevant and tangential to the validity of the theories mathematical framework. 
#132
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@Buddamoose
Reference a single DDO game where mafia waived a kill at MYLO, or GTFO.
#133
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Normal gameplay actually doesn't have a damn thing to do with theorycrafting.
No shit, sherlock. That's exactly my point. What matters is actual gameplay. Save the theorycrafting for separate threads and stop clogging up this one. If you want to talk about actual gameplay then let's talk about actual gameplay. In other words:

Reference a single DDO game where mafia waived a kill at MYLO, or GTFO.
#134
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@drafterman
Your argument literally depends on DDO players suddenly and spontaneously deciding to adopt that gambit - out of nowhere

Ah, so because something has never been done in a particular location that means it will never happen. Shit i have to wonder how we have any technology at all today considering before it was made and implemented, tech hadn't been used anywhere. 

Such as irrigation. By this logic, irrigiation should be nonexistent because it wasn't done anywhere until it started being done.

By your logic, no lynches have ever occurred on DP1, because at one point it was SoP here and what was done was VTNL'ing. But yet, here we are with that SoP no longer being strict SoP and D1 lynches happen often. 
#135
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@Buddamoose
What reason do you have to believe that this sudden 180 on typical DDO scum behavior is going to happen right here, right now?
#136
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And notice, readers, how the scum goes from "This is 100% SOP that is mathematically proven to be the superior strategy that everyone does all the time, everywhere" to "well, it's never actually happened before, but it might!"
#137
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 Your argument literally depends on DDO players suddenly and spontaneously deciding to adopt that gambit - out of nowhere

Also, as I've pointed out twice now, it wouldn't be out of nowhere. I let the cat out of the bag on that one. 

No shit, sherlock. That's exactly my point. What matters is actual gameplay. 

Except, again, by this same logic SoP being VTNL should still be the standard. It took convincing people in game of the merits of lynching D1 as a standard to even get people to consider lynching D1 even some of the time barring a slip. 

Before it was implemented, all there was was theorycrafting on it and examples from other mafia communities. 

This is presenting a false dichotomy and a false standard of behavior thats inconsistent with how games evolve over time. It took months of pushing for D1 lynches in game for it to start being done barring a scum slip. 

This whole notion that analyzing game mechanics and optimal strategies in a game is "clogging" the DP and is pointless is delusional to how important that is to the game itself. 

Unless you want to argue that analyzing game mechanics and optimal strats to victory doesn't increaae odds of winning.

But at that point sure thing. Let's put together two separate basketball teams. Make sure none of the players on ur team understand optimal basketball strategy or mechanics/rules. While I'll make sure all my players do. Now watch as the team I put together spanks yours 100% of the time.

Ur angle is so lul and antithetical to playing games/competing to win. 



#138
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I let the cat out of the bag on that one. 
LOL.

"Hm, currently scum teams play sub-optimally. Let me publicly inform them about this better strategy, thus putting town at a disadvantage forcing them to lynch at MYLO and put the entire game at risk!"

So, even if you aren't scum, you are basically scum-siding.
#139
Vaarka
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So let me get this straight

Why are you trying to lynch each other? You guys are spamming at this point and I got tired of trying to read it
#140
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@Vaarka
We're not trying to lynch each other. I'm saying we should VTNL. Town has no basis for choosing me over Budda.

Budda wants to lynch me because he's scum trying for a mislynch at MYLO.
#141
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UVC

Drafterman (1/4) - Budda ← Vote here if you are dumb/scum
VTNL (1/4) - Drafterman ← Vote here if you are smart/town

#142
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Also, I have a guitly result on Budda.
#143
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@drafterman
And notice, readers, how the scum goes from "This is 100% SOP
Here is that inability to comprehend what a question mark signifies again. 
that is mathematically proven to be the superior strategy
It actually has been, hence why the cats been let out of the bag.
To "well, it's never actually happened before, but it might!"

Happened "here" before. But again, SoP used to be VTNL on D1 unless scum slip. Its now no longer. 

What reason do you have to believe that this sudden 180 on typical DDO scum behavior is going to happen right here, right now?

Idk, maybe cause i outlined mathematically that unless

-we're both cops
Or
-there is a specific player it would hugely benefit them to kill

Actually killing someone in this situation benefits town, while harming mafia? And mafia would sensibly no kill?

Sorry for letting the cat out of the bag on that one. I could see why you might want to cling to that SoP cause it largely benefits towns base win probability while hurting mafias base win probability.

Shit dude, my b for thinking players could comprehend simple probabilities for themselves and assuming people here we're otherwise aware of the no killing at MYLO. Especially since it was a specific topic of discussion during a beginners series game.

I guess according to you i gave players on DDO too much credit for being able to deduce basic probabilities. 

#144
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Budda's "argument" for why I'm scum is that I'm pushing for a NL at MYLO which hurts town and helps mafia, but only because he told mafia how they can leverage MYLO to their advantage, and despite the fact that I was pushing for the NL before he revealed this unbeatable scum-sided strategy.
#145
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@Buddamoose
If you're town, why are you telling scum how to play the game better?
#146
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@drafterman
So, even if you aren't scum, you are basically scum-siding.

No, I figured people here were intelligent enough to understand killing at MYLO is sub-optimal play. 

Wow the guy who points out this could backfire and be a lead-in to a gambit has to be scum because? So devilishly evil of me making town aware of no killimg as opposed to not being so and coming into next DP totally trusting a doc save claim with no NK. 

I must have missed the part in games where hiding important information from town was a towny thing to do. 

#147
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@drafterman
despite the fact that I was pushing for the NL before he revealed this unbeatable scum-sided strategy

First off, I never claimed it's unbeatable. And just because you VTNL'd before makes you town because? I also assumed you were intelligent enough to deduce probabilities so if anything you not pointing out that scum could no kill is itself actually scummy. 

Either you don't comprehend basic probabilities, or you decided those basic probabilities should be left undivulged. 

I must have missed the part where hiding prescient information like that from town is the towny thing to do. 

Not to mention, that's not why I'm finding you scummy. But please do keep blatantly lying about my posts. 


#148
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From Budda's own provided link:


Risks: Depending on player count and kill rate, the game may end up with an extra night phase due to a no-lynch in mylo, thus giving town additional opportunities to use investigative power roles, or even give the town an additional mislynch.

#149
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@Vaarka
If you're tired of reading walls of text between me and Budda, then step up and be more active yourself. Provide some analysis, some feedback. Put your vote somewhere. Play the game.
#150
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@TheHammer
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Let's go, guys.