Should Biden do a 180 and pick Colin Powell as his VP?

Author: Imabench

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RationalMadman
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@HistoryBuff
Are you only what your job is on paper? For all I know you are unemployed, no offence. You are not just your job.

Vice President does a lot behind the scenes and is a major eyes and ears to stop the President being backstabbed or media-smeared in ways that the President alone could never handle. There is a reason why experience as VP is considered so extreme that 14 VP have later become President (and will be 15 if Biden makes it). It is extremely parallel on the behind the scenes stuff with the President themselves' work, often needing to meet very high ranking officials on behalf of the President, more so than the secretary of state does. The VP is an extremely trusted individual, on par with the secretary of state in how high their rank and the trust placed in them can give them access to (but below the President).

This is extremely serious to suggest that they are just a tie breaker and a face on a ticket.
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@RationalMadman
Im not questioning the competency of Harris. Im saying that fundamentally, the first quality for the VP selection next to Biden was that whoever the selection was, she would have to be a woman. It was already implied that the VP selection also had to be a competent person who could stand in as Prez should something happen to Biden, but the field was narrowed down specifically on the issue of gender, so my belief is that in light of all that is going on, it would not be such a big issue if that parameter to narrow down the field instead be based on race
HistoryBuff
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@RationalMadman
Vice President does a lot behind the scenes and is a major eyes and ears to stop the President being backstabbed or media-smeared in ways that the President alone could never handle.
no, a VP can be important if important people in the administration decide to let them be. There is absolutely nothing in the job description that makes them important. In the same way an advisor can be critically important if they are listened to, but are nothing if they are ignored. The VP is an empty job unless people choose to let him do stuff. 

There is a reason why experience as VP is considered so extreme that 14 VP have later become President (and will be 15 if Biden makes it). 
It's not so much about being experience as it is about paying your political dues and name recognition. You support a powerful politician when he runs for president, then a few years later is your turn. You also get the benefit of lots of people knowing who you are already. 

This is extremely serious to suggest that they are just a tie breaker and a face on a ticket.
that is exactly what they are, unless someone with real power chooses to let them be more. 
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@Imabench
This is the exact corrupt face-value politics that has CAUSED PEOPLE to be this furious with the system. That is all I will say. Sick of everything being about playing a game with optics and pseudo-value reputation.
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@RationalMadman
 Sick of everything being about playing a game with optics and pseudo-value reputation.
It was arguably optics and pseudo-value representation to begin with though
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For someone who spends a lot of hours everyday posting here about equality and respecting the unfairly downtrodden, you sure spit on VP and over-glorify what it means to be a politician of a certain rank vs another when you say some have 'real power' and that the second highest rank in the nation is a fancy placeholder who is essentially enslaved to the ones with 'real power'.
ok. but unless the president dies, the "second highest rank" in america has absolutely 0 power. There is nothing in the job description that makes them important. They cast tie breaking votes and step in if the president is dead. Since those things don't come up very often, their entire role is based on electoral math. 

I am done talking to you, you are a poser not a real left-wing lover of equality and mutual respect between all of any rank, background and whatever else. You judge on face value and talk so low and cynical of some things yet you say the right-wing shouldn't do this. Hypocrisy is all I am seeing.
what are you even talking about? how does the position of the VP have anything at all to do with left/right? I am describing how a political position functions. that is not a left/right issue. 

Respect all, even a vice president and don't suggest it's a bullshit rank to artificially please people and that you're okay with that if you want to be seriously taken as someone who gives a shit about politics and doesn't see it as a real-life videogame.
Again, i don't know what you mean. Can you dispute what I am saying about the VP? If the president decides he doesn't want the VP to do anything, does he have any power at all?

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I am done posting in this thread. My anger got the better of me and I apologise. I have said my piece and leave it at that.
Danielle
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No, Biden should pick Elizabeth Warren, but he's going to pick Kamala Harris. 
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@Imabench
 it would not be such a big issue if that parameter to narrow down the field instead be based on race

It would because he already committed to picking a woman, so this implies there aren't any competent black women or women of color. Stacy Abrams and Kamala Harris are both desperate to be VP, the latter being more experienced and a better asset to Joe. He needs a pitbull on the campaign trail and she's the best candidate for that these days. 
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@HistoryBuff
VP should be fundamentally selected based on competence and loyalty, any other reason is corrupt unless to reverse another corruption in a subtle way.


how is it corrupt? That is all the position of VP is for. Other than casting a tie breaking vote in the senate, it is doesn't do anything at all. It's almost sole job is to "balance the ticket" to try to get voters that would otherwise dislike the presidential candidate. Since the role of VP has no power and doesn't actually do anything in government, there is no reason for the position to be based on merit. Because they have nothing to do anyway. 

All the more reason that democracy is a sham. When ever a system is built on majoritarian consensus, pandering is inevitable.
HistoryBuff
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@Danielle
No, Biden should pick Elizabeth Warren, but he's going to pick Kamala Harris. 
I'm not sure warren adds any value at this point. She couldn't even win her own state. She doesn't really have much in the way of support. most of the left now distrusts her for her moving right during the campaign and her attempts to knee cap bernie (while almost entirely letting biden off the hook). 

Stacy Abrams and Kamala Harris are both desperate to be VP, the latter being more experienced and a better asset to Joe. He needs a pitbull on the campaign trail and she's the best candidate for that these days. 
Honestly, I don't see how kamala adds anything at all to his campaign. She had very little support and dropped out early. Her history as a prosecutor is probably more of a hindrance than a benefit. I don't see there being very many people who would refuse to vote for biden, but would want to vote for kamala. 
HistoryBuff
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@Athias
All the more reason that democracy is a sham. When ever a system is built on majoritarian consensus, pandering is inevitable.
how is that a sham? Ruling by the consensus of the majority is what democracy is. Yes that involves pandering. Yes that is messy. But I'm not aware of any system that is better. At least in a democracy the rulers have to try to appeal to the people. In other forms of government there is no such requirement. 

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Colin Powell would have my vote. Michelle Obama is probably the choice Biden should make.
Athias
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@HistoryBuff
how is that a sham? Ruling by the consensus of the majority is what democracy is. Yes that involves pandering. Yes that is messy. But I'm not aware of any system that is better. At least in a democracy the rulers have to try to appeal to the people. In other forms of government there is no such requirement. 
There's a group of 20 people. 18 men, and two women. Since the decisions of this group are handled by the democratic process, one member proposes a referendum on whether the 18 men should rape at least one of the women. The one who proposed the referendum makes his appeal, and the two women make their appeals. A vote is taken and 11 out of the 20 people who were party to this process voted on raping at least one of the women. Assuming that the two women voted against the proposition, that also means that not only would the women have to be victimized as a result of being party to that particular democratic process, but also the seven men who voted against it will be forced to victimize at least one of the  women.

So what is my point? If a system of political interaction does not reflect a moral economy, then it is by NO MEANS a "better" system.
Imabench
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@Danielle
I agree with History that Warren isnt really a good pick for VP at this point, let alone the best. 

She does not have the progressive vote behind her as the primary clearly indicated. Hell, just by moving from a Medicare-For-All plan to a transitional plan she hemorrhaged at least half the people who were supporting her up until that point and went to Bernie's camp. There also wasnt a bloc in Warren's base that Biden didnt already do decent with himself, so a Warren selection hardly adds anything to the ticket he doesnt already have. 

On the opposite side, Warren would immediately push the GOP to rally more around Trump then consider switching to Biden or staying home. Apart from Pelosi, Hillary, and Bernie, I cant think of anyone else who as VP would piss off Republicans more just by being on the ticket. Part of the equation of selecting a VP is to bring more people to your side then you push to the other side, Warren is definitely one of the people that would push people more to the GOP then they would bring anyone towards Biden. 

Someone mentioned before that Powell is 83 years old which so far is the best piece of evidence Ive heard against selecting him as VP since he would be older than Biden. 
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@Barney
Colin Powell would have my vote.
I can see how he makes sense politically to continue to try to peel off voters from moderate republicans. But picking a republican to be VP for an already right wing democrat is a giant middle finger to his own party. It is entirely possible that it will only further convince the left that Biden is a right wing candidate who will do nothing to fight for their interests (and in many cases will actively fight against their interests). In that case, he is likely to lose alot more votes on the left than whatever gains he may get on the right.

But right this minute, that doesn't seem to be likely. Trump's authoritarian crack down on peaceful protesters is doing a pretty good job of showing that trump cannot be allowed to run the country.


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@Athias
So what is my point? If a system of political interaction does not reflect a moral economy, then it is by NO MEANS a "better" system.
what system, in the entire history of mankind, has included a moral economy (and would therefore be better)? What would such a system look like? How would we decide what is moral and what is not? There is some pretty big disagreements about what is moral. 

democracy has flaws because humans have flaws. I don't see any way that any hypothetical system could possibly be perfect. I'm not aware of any system that we could implement that would be better than democracy. 
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@Imabench
Someone mentioned before that Powell is 83 years old which so far is the best piece of evidence Ive heard against selecting him as VP since he would be older than Biden. 
i'm not sure about that. One of the things that progressives are concerned about is that biden will pick a young ,right wing, neo-lib running mate. Then biden runs for 1 term and essentially hands power to that neo-lib running mate. That means you are looking at like 12 years where the democratic party continues to actively antagonize and fight against progressives while pandering to republicans. 

If biden picks a running mate who is also older and unlikely to make their own run at president in 4 years, it would make people on the left a bit less nervous. They know biden will ignore what they want. They know biden will actively fight against what they want just to show right wing people how "reasonable" he is. If he hand picks another person who will do the exact same thing for years to come, it might further antagonize the left. 
Athias
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@HistoryBuff
what system, in the entire history of mankind, has included a moral economy (and would therefore be better)? What would such a system look like? How would we decide what is moral and what is not? There is some pretty big disagreements about what is moral. 
Disagreements on morality doesn't affect morality. Unlike democracy, morality isn't subject to consensus because it's an expression of logic and reason. How would it look like? Anarchy.

democracy has flaws because humans have flaws.
Then why not be the subject of a dictator? What's to stop anyone from justifying the cruel acts of a dictator by claiming, "a dictator has flaws because humans have flaws"?

I don't see any way that any hypothetical system could possibly be perfect.
No one is talking about perfection. Only a system where one is free to and responsible to act his own discretion.

I'm not aware of any system that we could implement that would be better than democracy. 
Anarchy (or anarchocapitalism.)



HistoryBuff
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@Athias
Disagreements on morality doesn't affect morality. Unlike democracy, morality isn't subject to consensus because it's an expression of logic and reason. How would it look like? Anarchy.
strongly disagree. Morality is inherently subjective. It is very different to different people. There is no such thing as objective morality. 

democracy has flaws because humans have flaws.
Then why not be the subject of a dictator? What's to stop anyone from justifying the cruel acts of a dictator by claiming, "a dictator has flaws because humans have flaws"?
because in a dictatorship you are subject to the whims of 1 individual. If they are cruel or choose to do bad things, no one has any recourse to do anything about it. In a democracy if a leader does something cruel or evil, a person can attempt to convince enough people that this was wrong and have that leader replaced or the policy changed. You are never going to have a government that can act in the benefit of every single individual in the country because no 2 people agree on exactly what that would be. A democracy gives people the ability to have their say on the policies of the country to try to have their government represent the wishes of as many people as they can. 

No one is talking about perfection. Only a system where one is free to and responsible to act his own discretion.
so.... anarchy? you think that is the closest to perfect we can get?

Anarchy (or anarchocapitalism.)
I did a bit of quick reading on precisely what this entails and it sounds terrible. It sounds like a system that, much like communism, cannot possibly work in the real world. It would quickly transform into an oligarchy where the rich control all the levers of power with the fun twist of there being no mechanism to vote them out. 


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strongly disagree. Morality is inherently subjective. It is very different to different people. There is no such thing as objective morality. 
Experience is subjective. Therefore, morality is subjective as well. However, my claim wasn't that it wasn't subjective; my claim is that it isn't subject to consensus. Now if you're attempting to use the term "subjective" in a manner synonymous to the description "prone to whim," then you are incorrect.

because in a dictatorship you are subject to the whims of 1 individual.
Would it then be "better" to be subject to the whims of multiple individuals?

If they are cruel or choose to do bad things, no one has any recourse to do anything about it. In a democracy if a leader does something cruel or evil, a person can attempt to convince enough people that this was wrong and have that leader replaced or the policy changed.
And if they can't convince enough people? What if most of the group endorses the engagement of cruel act as exampled by my hypothetical above?

You are never going to have a government that can act in the benefit of every single individual in the country because no 2 people agree on exactly what that would be.
In anarchy, one would be able to serve one's benefit because one is one's own sovereign.

A democracy gives people the ability to have their say on the policies of the country to try to have their government represent the wishes of as many people as they can. 
How is this the case when you say "no 2 people agree on exactly what that would be." So whose wishes are being represented? And what if that wish is evil?

so.... anarchy? you think that is the closest to perfect we can get?
I think anarchy is ideal.

I did a bit of quick reading on precisely what this entails and it sounds terrible. It sounds like a system that, much like communism, cannot possibly work in the real world.
Why is that?

It would quickly transform into an oligarchy where the rich control all the levers of power with the fun twist of there being no mechanism to vote them out. 
An oligarchy is not anarchy. And why would it quickly transform to an oligarchy where the rich control all levels of power?


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@Athias
An oligarchy is not anarchy. And why would it quickly transform to an oligarchy where the rich control all levels of power?
Because absolutely no rules stop them abusing their social influence, physical power or intellectually gained and guarded secrets.
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@Athias
Experience is subjective. Therefore, morality is subjective as well. However, my claim wasn't that it wasn't subjective; my claim is that it isn't subject to consensus. Now if you're attempting to use the term "subjective" in a manner synonymous to the description "prone to whim," then you are incorrect.
I mean subjective in the sense that it is different and unique to every person. That means that no matter what system you come up with, someone will always feel it is immoral. someone will always feel the system is antithetical to what they believe/want.

Would it then be "better" to be subject to the whims of multiple individuals?
if it is what the majority of people in the country believe is the right and moral thing to do, then yes. What other possibility is there? You cannot have a system where everyone is happy with it. There will always be people who disagree with the system. The best you can hope for is to do the most good for the most people. 

And if they can't convince enough people? What if most of the group endorses the engagement of cruel act as exampled by my hypothetical above?
then this is extremely unfortunate. The people who being oppressed should either work to convince people that their position is correct. If they cannot and do not wish to live with the consequences, then they would need to try to find a place somewhere more tolerant to their views. But I fail to see how anarchy would prevent the situation you described. Someone is going to have to decide what the rules are for the society, and if there are no rules then they can rape whoever they want whenever they want without consequences.

In anarchy, one would be able to serve one's benefit because one is one's own sovereign.
That is simply not true. No one is ever entirely sovereign. You will always be beholden to others. You will have a boss, a neighbor, a co-worker, etc who will have power over you. The only way to be truly sovereign would be to have no meaningful interaction with others. As long as humans are interdependent (which is always going to be the case) then you can't ever be truly sovereign. 

How is this the case when you say "no 2 people agree on exactly what that would be." So whose wishes are being represented? And what if that wish is evil?
like i said, you can only ever try to do the most good for the most people. so you represent the wishes of as many people as you can. If those wishes are evil, then the society is evil and it certainly wouldn't be an improvement to have an evil society without a central government to restrain that evil. 

An oligarchy is not anarchy. And why would it quickly transform to an oligarchy where the rich control all levels of power?
because money is power. in the absence of another form of power (ie an elected government) that power will go somewhere. It is human nature to want wealth and power over others. It doesn't matter what else you do, you cannot change the underlying fact of human nature. If you create a system where there is not an organized source of power, then someone will find a method to gain that power. Maybe they use their wealth to bribe whatever body makes rules. Maybe they will simply pay lots of people to do what they want thus making them self a de facto king. Since you haven't specified how rules would be decided and enforced I can't say how specifically they would gain power, but they would find a way. They always do. 
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@RationalMadman
Because absolutely no rules stop them abusing their social influence, physical power or intellectually gained and guarded secrets.
What informs their social influence? Physical power? And intellectually gained and guarded secrets?

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@Athias
Natural IQ and strength DNA differences combined with luck of being born to powerful and influential families, areas etc.
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I mean subjective in the sense that it is different and unique to every person. That means that no matter what system you come up with, someone will always feel it is immoral. someone will always feel the system is antithetical to what they believe/want.
Then what about the moral philosophy of individualism which preserves your description of subjective?

if it is what the majority of people in the country believe is the right and moral thing to do, then yes. What other possibility is there? You cannot have a system where everyone is happy with it. There will always be people who disagree with the system. The best you can hope for is to do the most good for the most people. 
So using my example from before, you're stating that in any and all decisions involving political participation, it is better to submit to the whim of the majority even if that whim involves rape (or any immoral act?) Why should any individual invest in a political process where he or she will fall through the cracks and be excluded? As you said, "the best [one] could hope for is to do the most good for the most people"? What if one is not part of the "most people"?

By the way, what is the "most good" if you argue that morality is subject to someone else feeling it immoral?

then this is extremely unfortunate. The people who being oppressed should either work to convince people that their position is correct. If they cannot and do not wish to live with the consequences, then they would need to try to find a place somewhere more tolerant to their views. But I fail to see how anarchy would prevent the situation you described. Someone is going to have to decide what the rules are for the society, and if there are no rules then they can rape whoever they want whenever they want without consequences.
No consequences? What makes you presume that there are no consequences in anarchy? Take this for example: I live in a society where there is no functioning centralized government. Suppose I intend to rob my neighbor. What are some considerations I ought to make before robbing my neighbor? First, I consider the moral philosophy to which I subscribe. Is it right to rob my neighbor? But should I bear no moral concerns, then maybe I ought to consider practical concerns. Do I consider the ramifications of robbing those who live so close to me? Do I consider the physicality of those who reside in my neighbors' homes? Do I consider their skill, if any, in the martial or pugilistic arts? What about weapons?

Every action one considers, one must consider the consequences "rules" or "no rules."

That is simply not true. No one is ever entirely sovereign. You will always be beholden to others. You will have a boss, a neighbor, a co-worker, etc who will have power over you.
How?

The only way to be truly sovereign would be to have no meaningful interaction with others.
Why?

As long as humans are interdependent (which is always going to be the case) then you can't ever be truly sovereign. 
Why would one's being sovereign exclude their depending on others?

If those wishes are evil, then the society is evil and it certainly wouldn't be an improvement to have an evil society without a central government to restrain that evil. 
If the society is evil, why would members of government be any less evil?

because money is power. in the absence of another form of power (ie an elected government) that power will go somewhere. It is human nature to want wealth and power over others. It doesn't matter what else you do, you cannot change the underlying fact of human nature.
How are members of government immune from this proclivity?

If you create a system where there is not an organized source of power, then someone will find a method to gain that power.

Maybe they use their wealth to bribe whatever body makes rules.
These two statements contradict. You're stating that in a system where there isn't an organized source of power, someone will use their wealth to bribe an organized source of power.

Maybe they will simply pay lots of people to do what they want thus making them self a de facto king.
How does a democratic government prevent this now?

Since you haven't specified how rules would be decided and enforced I can't say how specifically they would gain power, but they would find a way. They always do. 
So the imposition of rules are useless because "they'd" always find a way, right?

And in anarchy, resolution of disputes would be handled through mediation and contracts.
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@RationalMadman
Natural IQ and strength DNA differences combined with luck of being born to powerful and influential families, areas etc.
What informs the power and influence of the families, areas, etc. you referenced?

Abused psychometrics like I.Q.? And does "strength DNA" have as much influence in the advent of anabolic steroids?
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@Athias
Then what about the moral philosophy of individualism which preserves your description of subjective?
I'm not certain I understand your question, so if this doesn't answer it, please clarify for me. morality is in the eye of the beholder. it is individualistic by nature. Society, by it's nature, is collectivist. We are all parts of a much greater whole. The only way to prevent this is to destroy society and keep everyone in their own separate bubbles where they don't interact in a meaningful way. since this is obviously impossible, we can only proceed with reality the way it is. 

So using my example from before, you're stating that in any and all decisions involving political participation, it is better to submit to the whim of the majority even if that whim involves rape (or any immoral act?) Why should any individual invest in a political process where he or she will fall through the cracks and be excluded? As you said, "the best [one] could hope for is to do the most good for the most people"? What if one is not part of the "most people"?
what alternative is there? either we have communally agreed upon rules of conduct, which will necessarily fail some people, or we don't have any communally agreed rules of conduct and people are free to injure each other at will (which fails virtually everyone). 

Every action one considers, one must consider the consequences "rules" or "no rules."
ok, and if lots of people decide they do want to harm their neighbor, what does your hypothetical society do about it? For that matter, what happens if a large group in this society decide to band together to harm a smaller group in this society? Who is going to stop them?

That is simply not true. No one is ever entirely sovereign. You will always be beholden to others. You will have a boss, a neighbor, a co-worker, etc who will have power over you.
How?
you will always be beholden to others because you have indivisible ties to them. you are beholden to your boss because you need money to survive. if you piss off your boss you will be punished. You are beholden to your bank. They hold the loan on your house. If you piss them off they take your house or your car. You are beholden to the other members of your community. You need to be able to live and work together. If you piss them off they may decide to beat the shit out of you. You can't ever be totally sovereign. Other people will always have a say in what you do and how. The only way to change that is to cut yourself off from all others so that no one cares what you do. 

If the society is evil, why would members of government be any less evil?
because governments need to consider the wishes of as many of their citizens as possible in order to win an election. a minority is by definition, not going to be enough to win. But they may certainly be a large enough block to be important in an election. It is dangerous to ignore the suffering of voters. In a society where the people with power don't need to worry about an election, they don't have to give a shit what people think.

How are members of government immune from this proclivity?
they aren't. but that is why we insist on laws to try to prevent them from abusing this power. And if they do abuse it we vote them out of office or arrest them. In a society without these sorts of levers for average people to use, they would be powerless to push back on this sort of abuse. 

These two statements contradict. You're stating that in a system where there isn't an organized source of power, someone will use their wealth to bribe an organized source of power.
no, you haven't explained precisely how your hypothetical society would function so it is hard for me to generalize. If your proposed society included any sort of rule making, then people could be bribed. If there is no formal rule making, then all they have to do is hire thugs and they are now king.

Maybe they will simply pay lots of people to do what they want thus making them self a de facto king.
How does a democratic government prevent this now?
using formalized power, ie police, the military. 

So the imposition of rules are useless because "they'd" always find a way, right?
i'm still trying to get a firm handle on exactly how you think this society would function. so if this isn't relevant to your idea, then you may need to clarify.

And in anarchy, resolution of disputes would be handled through mediation and contracts.
ok, and who enforces those contracts or the results of the mediation. if the mediator says i'm wrong and I say "fuck you" and hire 30 guys to go burn their house down or just threaten his family, who is going to stop me? Or for that matter, what if I just bribe the mediator? You said there is no laws so it would presumably be fine to do that. 
Athias
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I'm not certain I understand your question, so if this doesn't answer it, please clarify for me. morality is in the eye of the beholder. it is individualistic by nature. Society, by it's nature, is collectivist.
Society is not fundamentally collectivist. Society streamlines the constellation of subjective values through interaction and transaction. Morality sets the standard in which these interactions and transactions serve a mutual benefit. The fundamental basis of society is the individual, since the starting point is building a form of cohesion between two or more subjects. And to do that, analysis of the individual's stake in the arrangement is necessary.

Individualism is the only moral philosophy that both acknowledges and respects the subjective, as well as any subject's function in his or her own experience.

We are all parts of a much greater whole.
Which "whole" is that? And what makes it "greater"?

The only way to prevent this is to destroy society and keep everyone in their own separate bubbles where they don't interact in a meaningful way. since this is obviously impossible, we can only proceed with reality the way it is. 
You've inferred "impossibility" because you've imputed a non sequitur. An individualistic society can function on the respect of individual autonomy. Individuals will interact and transact when it serves their benefit.

what alternative is there? either we have communally agreed upon rules of conduct, which will necessarily fail some people, or we don't have any communally agreed rules of conduct and people are free to injure each other at will (which fails virtually everyone). 
Or we can let the market handle "rule-setting" and leave it to an individual's discretion to follow them or not. Take this forum for example: each member joins agreeing to a set of stipulated rules. Your participation is contingent on accepting or declining these rules. The site's administrators employ moderators to ensure the maintenance of this site by seeing that the rules are followed. In the event that rules aren't followed, they can extend the administrators' proxy by penalizing and/or ostracizing (banning.) Perhaps you're thinking "how is this different from government?" Participation on this site is willful. One is not tagged with a social security number (a.k.a. bond number) at birth and conscripted. Second, should I decided that I no longer wish to abide by the rules of this site, then I'm free to leave with no less than that with which I came in. In other words, the forum cannot seize my property. Third, the forum's stipulated rules aren't codified with the threat of violence. That is, the forum cannot detain me or kill me. Last, I'm free to roam the internets for forums with rules which suit my tastes without deprivation.

Internet interaction is a microcosm of how anarchy works. And with essential services and even interaction being automated through the internet, that microcosm is increasing in scope. Sure, you'll have your trolls, loons, hackers, hustlers, etc. But there will also be intelligent and thoughtful individuals, "moderators," and security mercenaries (Kapersky, Norton, AVG, Malwarebytes, etc.) sustaining the integrity of interaction and transactions. If one subscribes to this Hobbesian delusion that man cannot be left to his own devices, then no system of government will ever "work" because the practices and ideas sustaining said government are a product of man.

ok, and if lots of people decide they do want to harm their neighbor, what does your hypothetical society do about it? For that matter, what happens if a large group in this society decide to band together to harm a smaller group in this society? Who is going to stop them?
The neighbor can defend himself. He can hire mercenaries to defend him and his land. He will however not be bound by a system which justifies a larger group doing him harm.

you will always be beholden to others because you have indivisible ties to them. you are beholden to your boss because you need money to survive.
I need "money"; I don't need a boss. So then how am I beholden to my boss?

if you piss off your boss you will be punished. You are beholden to your bank. They hold the loan on your house. If you piss them off they take your house or your car.
And in the event that I own both my house and car, to whom am I beholden then?

You are beholden to the other members of your community. You need to be able to live and work together.
I need services; I don't need any particular member of my community.

If you piss them off they may decide to beat the shit out of you.
They can try.

You can't ever be totally sovereign. Other people will always have a say in what you do and how.
That which others do may be taken into consideration when making a decision, but that doesn't change that the decision is mine.

The only way to change that is to cut yourself off from all others so that no one cares what you do. 
Or... we can entertain the notion that "caring" about that which I do doesn't give another authority over that which I do.

because governments need to consider the wishes of as many of their citizens as possible in order to win an election. a minority is by definition, not going to be enough to win. But they may certainly be a large enough block to be important in an election. It is dangerous to ignore the suffering of voters. In a society where the people with power don't need to worry about an election, they don't have to give a shit what people think.
A transient indulgence which occurs every four years and six years, after which they are no longer beholden to their campaign promises.

they aren't. but that is why we insist on laws to try to prevent them from abusing this power.
And who enforces these laws? Who sustains them? The same people from the aforementioned evil society?

And if they do abuse it we vote them out of office or arrest them.
But society is evil, what use would that serve?

no, you haven't explained precisely how your hypothetical society would function so it is hard for me to generalize. If your proposed society included any sort of rule making, then people could be bribed.
Look above. And judging by your statements, is it fair to presume that one could infer from your argument that any system of government is prone to abuse?

If there is no formal rule making, then all they have to do is hire thugs and they are now king.
Who is the king of the internet?

using formalized power, ie police, the military. 
And it's impossible to pay off cops and soldiers?

i'm still trying to get a firm handle on exactly how you think this society would function. so if this isn't relevant to your idea, then you may need to clarify.
Look above.

ok, and who enforces those contracts or the results of the mediation.
No one does. The contract is sustained by perpetuated participation.

if the mediator says i'm wrong and I say "fuck you" and hire 30 guys to go burn their house down or just threaten his family, who is going to stop me?
Who's to stop you now? Especially if you don't alert your target?

Or for that matter, what if I just bribe the mediator?
What good does bribing the mediator do? The mediator is there to help resolve a dispute. One's agreement or disagreement with the resolution has nothing to do with how much the mediator is getting paid. But let's say I catch wind of this supposed bribe and alert my fellow community members that this mediator takes bribes, what would that then do for his reputation?

One of the common responses to the posit of anarchy is to test its "perfection" with outlandish scenarios. I'm not arguing that life is perfect in anarchy. I'm arguing that accountability, responsibility, and authority are where they should be in anarchy.