The Free Will-Omniscience Dilemma

Author: PressF4Respect

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BrotherDThomas
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@ethang5



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ethang5,

OMG! Obviously you have healed somewhat to finally be able to return after Jesus and I Bible Slapped you and Silly®️in our post #11 of this thread, praise Jesus’ miracles! 

I am truly sorry that I had to expose your complete Bible ignorance again, but it comes with the territory of your complete ineptness of the scriptures where you base your propositions upon your assumptions, hearsay, and subjective opinions, instead of the Bible itself.  Surely you can understand this simple premise, okay?

I got a lot of messages that stated I was to hard upon you in always making you the Bible fool like in my post #11, and other posts as well, and to back off so you can catch your breath.  But, in prayer with Jesus last night He said screw those namby pamby messages and go full bore with you because you ineptness of the Bible is giving His Christianity a bad name! Therefore, who am I to argue or state that Jesus is wrong,  so I will continue showing just how Bible ignorant you and many other pseudo-christians are in this forum, praise!


This section is where you put your insidious and child like excuses to try and explain away your embarrassing Bible Slapping experience given to you by Jesus and myself in said post, where I gave you a lot of lines so you can bring forth a "plethora" of your old worn out material of lame excuses. Use extra lines if need be, okay?

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Signed: ____________________________ (ethang5)



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PressF4Respect
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@Athias
It isn't hard determinism because your delineation hasn't substantiated how making these choices is independent of my will. Once again, you're focusing on that which one will do, rather than that which one can do.
If we know what the outcome will be in advance, then we know for a fact that you chose that outcome. If we know you choose A, then it is impossible for you to choose B, as that would violate the very result we observed. This applies to every single choice that everyone will ever make. You are therefore causally locked in place.

And the causality problem isn't a problem because you have misunderstood cause and effect. The effect isn't God's knowing about my decision. God is omniscient; therefore, his knowing is an unaffected constant. The cause is my decision, and the effect is my action. One can analyze in retrospect the series of decisions of that could have led up to an action or event. But it would still be one's decision, informing free will. Free will doesn't inform a uninhibited elastic future. It informs one's capacity to make a decision or take an action using his or her discretion.
I was referring to when ethang5 said:
It is not God's omniscience that causes you to do X, it is your doing X that causes God to be omniscient about it.
That statement says that the cause is "you doing X" and the effect is "God is omniscient about it".

ethang5
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@PressF4Respect
The problem with saying that God knows X because you chose X is that it implies some sort of backwards causality between the cause (your decision) and the effect (God knowing about your decision).
No. For God, neither His knowing your decision was "first". The only causality is your decision causing God to state what your decision was.

Another problem you would face even if God is merely the observer is that once the result of a choice is known,...
Sorry. God has always known. And His knowing does not precede your decision. Neither does it affect your decision. You seem to be thinking that God is locked on the river of time the way you are.

...it is causally impossible for the events leading up to that choice to not result in that choice.
Right, because decisions have results. Why would the same events leading up to that choice result in different choices? That isn't logical. The events leading up to that choice could have been different, but then God would have "seen" the difference and still have mentioned your actual choice.

It would be causally impossible for the events of any choice to not result in that choice, thus resulting in a single chain of events (the ones that do end up happening). This would lock you into a position of hard determinism. 
Nope. God doesn't "see" potentialities or possibilities, He sees actualities. When God says you will die in 2015 for example, form His vantage point, you have already died, not because His comment locks it in, but because that IS what happened. You, stuck in time, find it difficult to see it from God's timeless perspective.

Tell me what you think these verses mean, especially the bolded part.

Rev 13:7 - And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.
Rev 13:8 - And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

How could Jesus have been slain from the foundation of the world?
ethang5
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@BrotherDThomas
Hey Dee Dee, a thesaurus would help you. Really, spamming the same silly thing over and over makes you look clueless. Or is that the effect you're going for? If it is, you're doing a bang up job.

Don't you guys at Landover Baptist learn any other tricks? What? Is the thread topic toxic to you? Do you have monitors who watch that you stay on script? Hey, Dee Dee, where is your fellow elder Stephen?

Lol!
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@ethang5


ethang5,

I am so happy that my brutal Bible Slapping you Silly®️ has not taken away the use of your fingers, where you  continue to type away in making yourself the continued Bible fool within this forum!   Hmmmm, let me see, you are in the The Free Will-Omniscience Dilemma thread and what does that remind me of, hmmmmmm, %$#@*&! OH YEAH! THIS IS THE THREAD WHERE I BIBLE SLAPPED YOU SO SILLY®️ THAT YOU HAD TO TAKE SOME TIME OFF BEFORE YOU SHEEPISHLY RETURNED TO THIS FORUM! LOL!

Thats it!  My post #11 within this thread blatantly shows you to be the number 1 Bible ignorant fool AGAIN!  Listen, I completely understand in why you have to RUN AWAY from my post #11 in embarrassment, that easily refutes your laughable post #5, I mean, this post of yours was a real "knee slapper" at your expense again! LOL!

My favorite part of your inept dissertation into the world of Bible ignorance was the section where you stated that Jesus, in general, was not a decision maker, of which I had to show you various passages that in fact, He was a decision maker!  Oh my, I was thinking, how can anyone that calls himself a Christian be so dumbfound relative to the scriptures, then I reminded myself, it was ethang5, so it is expected!   Seriously, was this part your favorite as well, barring your laughable word salads? 

Here is the link below where I was Biblically addressing one of your most embarrassing and horrific displays of Bible ignorance that this forum has ever seen!
https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/4329-the-free-will-omniscience-dilemma?page=1&post_number=11.   Let me know if you want me to school you even further in the post in question, because seriously, I do not like it when members laugh at you!  Let me help you, okay!


NEXT?


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ethang5
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@BrotherDThomas
Dear Gentle Reader, notice how the Landover Baptist seem to be poisonous to Dee Dee? I guess mentioning it breaks his 4th wall.

Hey homer, stop praising yourself, it is obvious even you don't think that highly of yourself. And again, when you have nothing intelligent to say, posting silliness is not a worthy substitute.
BrotherDThomas
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@ethang5

Ethang5,

Is your post #36 above the best that you can do to hide from you being BIBLE STUPID AGAIN in your post #5, of which I had to easily BIBLE SLAP you SILLY®️ in my post #11?  This is barring the fact of your comical blabber word salads, and you using the same old tiring and warn out statements relative to "when you have nothing intelligent to say,  nada, nada, nada, nada. The only time the term silliness is worthy is when it relates to your post #5 within this thread that is so embarrassing that  you are still RUNNING AWAY from it like it didn't exist, but it does! DUH.

I think highly of Jesus in that through His inspired words, that obviously you have never read, allowed me to continue to make you the number 1 Bible ignorant fool upon this forum, of which, congratulations are in order once again! 

Unfortunately, the truly Bible ignorant like yourself can't realize that you are bringing a small Boy Scout pocket knife to my fully loaded Abrams M-1 tank when in discussion relating to your outright inexperience to Bible axioms. I understand that your equally ignorant pseudo-christian crowd told you to speak up and stop remaining silent to me because it was embarrassing to them as well, but look where it has gotten you!  As if your idiocy towards the Bible wasn't enough, then you compound your problem with your subsequent posts that continue to show you RUNNING AWAY from your memorable BIBLE STUPID post #5!!!  LOL

Ethang5, you are just too predictable which makes it so easy for us to easily make you the number 1 Bible fool pseudo-christian at DEBATEART, sorry. :(


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PGA2.0
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@Stephen
Please could you give me notification that you have responded to my posts? I almost missed this one.

[A.] He was the federal head.   [B.] Thus, he represented Eve and us in his decision.
A. That status of "head" as you have put came AFTER and not before. I pointed this out above. 

"and he will rule over you.” Genesis 3:16
1) The principle of firstborn as having preeminence is prevalent throughout the Bible.
2) God gave Adam the command to not eat of the fruit of the tree of knowledge for when he did he would die. That was before Eve was formed.
3) The biblical principle is to speak of the man, not the woman as the head.

Descendants of Adam ] This is the book of the generations of Adam.

When Adam had lived one hundred and thirty years, he became the father of a son in his own likeness, according to his image, and named him Seth.

Then the days of Adam after he became the father of Seth were eight hundred years, and he had other sons and daughters.

The family line is usually traced through the male lineage.

4) God gave Adam the task of naming the animals and his helper, showing that she had a subordinate role under him as the head. The woman was a helpmate suitable for him. Notice the order, "for him" not "for her."

Genesis 2:16 The Lord God commanded the man, saying, “From any tree of the garden you may eat freely; 17 but from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat from it you will surely die.”
18 Then the Lord God said, “It is not good for the man to be alone; I will make him a helper suitable for him.” 

God formed every beast of the field and every bird of the sky, and brought them to the man to see what he would call them; and whatever the man called a living creature, that was its name. 20 The man gave names to all the cattle, and to the birds of the sky, and to every beast of the field, but for Adam there was not found a helper suitable for him. 21 So the Lord God caused a deep sleep to fall upon the man, and he slept; then He took one of his ribs and closed up the flesh at that place. 22 The Lord God fashioned into a woman the rib which He had taken from the man, and brought her to the man. 23 The man said,
“This is now bone of my bones,
And flesh of my flesh;
She shall be called Woman,
Because she was taken out of Man.”

5) The sin is accounted to Adam, not Eve sin he was the federal head, not her.

“Have I covered my transgressions like Adam, By hiding my iniquity in my bosom,

But like Adam they have transgressed the covenant; There they have dealt treacherously against Me.

For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ all will be made alive.

Our sins are attributed to Adam as the head or representative. He is the first Adam. Jesus is also the federal head of all those who did not fall like the first Adam.

So also it is written, “The first man, Adam, became a living soul.” The last Adam became a life-giving spirit.

Over and over the man is given the prominent role, even naming the helper woman.

B.  Stop making things up.  There is no biblical reference or evidence that Adam had, or was given any type of authority over Eve,  before  the"knowing" went on between the serpent lord and Eve in the absence of the Adam.

Your long-winded wordy argument isn't worth the time it has taken you to write it. 
Sure there is. See my previous statements and Scriptural passages. Not only this, but the Son becoming flesh and blood. He would know the order. There are many passages that confirm Genesis and Adam's role. 

1 Timothy 2:12-14 (NASB)
12 But I do not allow a woman to teach or exercise authority over a man, but to remain quiet. 13 For it was Adam who was first createdand then Eve. 14 And it was not Adam who was deceived, but the woman being deceived, fell into transgression.

Adam was the one held responsible for the Fall just as Jesus is the one who is responsible for our restoration and reconciliation before God. There are many comparisons and contrasts between the two representatives.

Romans 5 makes this clear.

2 Therefore, just as through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men, because all sinned— 13 for until the Law sin was in the world, but sin is not imputed when there is no law. 14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam until Moses, even over those who had not sinned in the likeness of the offense of Adam, who is a type of Him who was to come.
15 But the free gift is not like the transgression. For if by the transgression of the one the many died, much more did the grace of God and the gift by the grace of the one Man, Jesus Christ, abound to the many. 16 The gift is not like that which came through the one who sinned; for on the one hand the judgment arose from one transgression resulting in condemnation, but on the other hand the free gift arose from many transgressions resulting in justification. 17 For if by the transgression of the one, death reigned through the one, much more those who receive the abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness will reign in life through the One, Jesus Christ.
18 So then as through one transgression there resulted condemnation to all men, even so through one act of righteousness there resulted justification of life to all men. 19 For as through the one man’s disobedience the many were made sinners, even so through the obedience of the One the many will be made righteous. 20 The Law came in so that the transgression would increase; but where sin increased, grace abounded all the more, 21 so that, as sin reigned in death, even so grace would reign through righteousness to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Through one man - Adam - death is attributed, even though Eve was the first to take of the fruit. That is because Adam was the head. Through the transgression of the one - Adam - many die. Again sin and guilt are attributed to Adam as the head, the one representing us before God, just as Jesus, as the last or second Adam is the one who represents us before God. ONE sin resulted in condemnation. That is the sin of Adam. Death reigned from the transgression of the one man - Adam. 

But I want you to understand that Christ is the head of every man, and the man is the head of a woman, and God is the head of Christ.

ethang5
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@BrotherDThomas
Ethang5, you are just too predictable...
Lol!! OK homer.

Your repetitive shtick isn't predictable at all.

Oh man! Can the class say clueless? I thought it could.
PressF4Respect
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@ethang5
No. For God, neither His knowing your decision was "first". The only causality is your decision causing God to state what your decision was.
What do you mean by "state"?

Sorry. God has always known. And His knowing does not precede your decision. Neither does it affect your decision. You seem to be thinking that God is locked on the river of time the way you are
So if God always knew what you were going to do, then how would you possibly be able to do anything else? You'd have to fall in line with what God sees in temporal space. Even with God's timelessness, this would still be the case.

Right, because decisions have results. Why would the same events leading up to that choice result in different choices? That isn't logical. The events leading up to that choice could have been different, but then God would have "seen" the difference and still have mentioned your actual choice.
Yes, this is part of my argument.

Nope. God doesn't "see" potentialities or possibilities, He sees actualities. When God says you will die in 2015 for example, form His vantage point, you have already died, not because His comment locks it in, but because that IS what happened. You, stuck in time, find it difficult to see it from God's timeless perspective.
So in his viewpoint, everything has already happened since the beginning of time. If every event has already happened at the very beginning of time, then all events would already be determined, correct?

Tell me what you think these verses mean, especially the bolded part.

Rev 13:7 - And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.
Rev 13:8 - And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

How could Jesus have been slain from the foundation of the world?
  1. Isn't Revelation 13:7 talking about the Antichrist?
  2. Correct me if I'm wrong, but when it says the Lamb that is slain, doesn't it mean it in the context of Revelation 5:6? "And I saw between the throne (with the four living creatures) and the elders a Lamb standing, as if slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God, sent out into all the earth."



Athias
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@PressF4Respect
If we know what the outcome will be in advance, then we know for a fact that you chose that outcome. If we know you choose A, then it is impossible for you to choose B, as that would violate the very result we observed. This applies to every single choice that everyone will ever make. You are therefore causally locked in place.
Causally locked by what? My decision. How does that exclude my free-will?
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@Athias
Causally locked by what? My decision. How does that exclude my free-will?
It's causally locked by God's observation of temporal space, not your decision. Your decision would also be locked in, as well as the event preceding it, as He has seen all of the temporal space as soon as time began. Since the events that play out can't contradict what He saw, all events would thus be causally locked.
PressF4Respect
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@EtrnlVw
@PGA2.0
Sorry, I almost forgot about you two, lol.
PressF4Respect
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@EtrnlVw
Interesting. I've never actually considered the possible ramifications of God lacking omniscience (as I thought God's omniscience is commonly accepted amongst Christians). You certainly do make some credible points. I'll have to look into it further.

Also, seeing as you believe the bible has faults, what would you say to those who adhere to the doctrine of Sola Scriptura, or even the doctrine of Prima Scriptura?
PressF4Respect
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@PGA2.0
There were many interesting things in your thread, but the one that stood out the most (to me) was this:
Yes, Adam's choice was predetermined. God knew Adam would eat. God had a plan for Adam eating the fruit. God allowed Adam the choice of eating or not eating. It was Adam's choice. Adam chose. We are influenced by Adam's choice. Now we too understand good and evil. We understand what it is like to do evil. Adam did not understand this until he ate. 
If Adam's choice was predetermined, then was it really his choice to eat?
BrotherDThomas
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@ethang5


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ethang5,  


YOUR PITIFUL AND SORROWFUL QUOTE REVEALING THAT YOU HAVE RAN OUT OF EXCUSES IN RUNNING AWAY FROM MY POST #11 WITHIN THIS THREAD:

Added 06.10.20 09:12PM
--> @BrotherDThomas 
Ethang5, you are just too predictable...
Lol!! OK homer.

Your repetitive shtick isn't predictable at all.

Oh man! Can the class say clueless? I thought it could. 


As if the membership cannot see that you have used every smoke screen available, by dodging  the questions, changing topics, not addressing the topic, but rather running away from it, and being silent towards your infamous uneducated and embarrassing post regarding the topic of this thread.  Unfortunately for you in front of our members,  I had to Bible Slap you Silly®️ in correcting your jabberwocky word salad post that debases Jesus the Christ as shown below!  BLASPHEME!



The following link is what ethang5 has to turn into when he cannot address my godly posts, but rather he runs away from them instead:


Ethang5, this section is once again provided to you, where you are to put your insidious and child like excuses to try and explain away your embarrassing Bible Slapping experience given to you by Jesus and myself in said post above.  I gave you a lot of lines so you can bring forth a "plethora" of your old worn out material of lame excuses to run away from my Bible Beating you senseless again:

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Signed: ____________________________ (ethang5)

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Athias
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@PressF4Respect
It's causally locked by God's observation of temporal space, not your decision. Your decision would also be locked in, as well as the event preceding it, as He has seen all of the temporal space as soon as time began. Since the events that play out can't contradict what He saw, all events would thus be causally locked.
No, it's not. It's causally locked by its order in the sequence. God's mere observation doesn't affect the sequence at all because God is not the agent in the sequence (omnipotence notwithstanding.) God observes one's making a decision and the event/action produced from that decision. Should the person not make a decision which produces a certain event/action, then it won't be observed.

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@PressF4Respect
Interesting. I've never actually considered the possible ramifications of God lacking omniscience (as I thought God's omniscience is commonly accepted amongst Christians). You certainly do make some credible points. I'll have to look into it further.

Thanks, yeah TBH God doesn't have to be omniscient, those are just made up terms and often times confuses people. It's not really lacking, only in terms of what we assert about God but God is not really lacking anything. God indeed is a maximal being but again these are just attributes we little earthlings like to force on God. God knows as much as can be known and God can do anything that can be done, God will always be God to us no matter what we believe God is lacking, the Creator is under no obligation to meet our requirements and standards.

If I had to evaluate each of the "Omni's" I would say God being omnipresent is probably the most accurate depiction, the rest are baloney.

Also, seeing as you believe the bible has faults, what would you say to those who adhere to the doctrine of Sola Scriptura, or even the doctrine of Prima Scriptura?

I think it's cute but it gets in the way of reality, when people box themselves in with concepts like these they lose sight of the details and the facts. The scripture is a compilation of many different aspects and perfection is just not in the cards, it was written and recorded by fallible men living within imperfect cultures, ways of life and opinions and much of it reflects the age and culture of the time period they lived in.
There are things within scripture that are perfect and there are things within scripture that are imperfect.... there are things within the Bible that are useful and there are things that can be discarded. Learning to distinguish what is useful in scripture and accepting what can be discarded plays a big role in intellectual honesty and integrity and believing the Bible is a big perfect book is silly and immature. Often times it leaves people having to justify things within the Bible that simply don't need to be justified and no one is forcing anyone to accept that the Bible has to be perfect and if they don't they're somehow a heretic or an unbeliever that is nonsense.
I've been reading the Bible on my own accord since I was a young kid, I've been applying all things applicable since I was a kid and so I'm not condemning the Bible I think it's beautiful in many ways and many times you'll see me defend its contents when there is good reason to defend it. If anyone in this forum deserves to be labeled a Bible thumper it is me, I've put the time in and paid my dues but I'm not going to sit here and claim it's perfect and everything within it needs to be accepted as God's perfect word. 

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@PressF4Respect
The irrationality of your proposal is assuming God is compelled to act on either His Omniscience, or His Omnipotence, to affect our free will. And, as Ethang noted, it is still our choice, hopefully knowing that one choice will align with God's will, and others will not. That decision does not need to be left to chance, and, therefore, no probability is really at play, but only if we are in tune with what is God's will. Obedience to Him is not limiting our free agency. Rather it expands it.

Every time we make a bad decision, there are limitations that are directly related to the severity of the bad result that are imposed on us. Any limitation restricts our ability to make free choices. The more bad than good decisions made, the more restrictions we impose on ourselves until we ave become slave to bad decisions. The opposite is true for making good decisions; our free will expands.
ethang5
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What do you mean by "state"?
Say.

So if God always knew what you were going to do, then how would you possibly be able to do anything else?
Sorry Press, but the question makes no sense. It's like asking, " If you chose Trump, then how would you possibly be able to chose anyone else? You were able to choose someone else, but you chose Trump.

God knows what you're going to do because THAT IS WHAT YOU DID. You were able to do something else, but you didn't. If you can't understand that then maybe we have to accept that you are incapable of understanding it.

You'd have to fall in line with what God sees in temporal space. Even with God's timelessness, this would still be the case.
I see no conundrum. What God sees in temporal space IS what you did. He sees it BECAUSE that is what you did. You're still incorrectly thinking that God "sees" it first, THEN, you do it. No. God is not stuck in time like you are. Gos is there with you right now as you're making that decision five years from now. God is not predicting, He is stating a fact.

Right, because decisions have results. Why would the same events leading up to that choice result in different choices? That isn't logical. The events leading up to that choice could have been different, but then God would have "seen" the difference and still have mentioned your actual choice.

Yes, this is part of my argument.
Your argument isn't logical.

So in his viewpoint, everything has already happened since the beginning of time. If every event has already happened at the very beginning of time, then all events would already be determined, correct?
No. Incorrect. Events are determined only AFTER they happen. God sees the undertinined events as they happen, and He's not looking into the future, for Him, there is no "future".

Rev 13:8 - And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

How could Jesus have been slain from the foundation of the world?

  1. Isn't Revelation 13:7 talking about the Antichrist?
My question was about 13:8. The Lamb is Christ, and it says He was slain from the foundation of the world. Please tell us what you think that phrase means.

2. Correct me if I'm wrong, but when it says the Lamb that is slain, doesn't it mean it in the context of Revelation 5:6? "And I saw between the throne (with the four living creatures) and the elders a Lamb standing, as if slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God, sent out into all the earth."

I'm asking for your understanding of the phrase, slain from the foundation of the world. Please tell us what you think that phrase means. If you don't know, that's no sin.

I'm asking you because this verse, (and others like it) show hat to God, events are neither past, present, or future. God does not time travel, He is simultaneously at every point in time all the time. It is even more accurate to say Time exists IN God, rather than God exists IN time.


Even before He was crucified, Jesus said He had already overcome the world. Abraham was saved by Jesus' death though Jesus lived 4,000+ years after Abraham.

Perhaps we just have to agree to disagree. But just once I'd like a person advancing your argument to tell me HOW God's simple knowledge impedes free will. They act as if it is obvious, so never explain it.
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@BrotherDThomas
As if the membership cannot see that you have used every smoke screen available, by dodging  the questions, changing topics, not addressing the topic, but rather running away from it, and being silent towards your infamous uneducated and embarrassing post regarding the topic of this thread.
Let me guess Dee Dee. They didn't teach you about run-on sentences at Landover did they?

What is it about compulsion and obsession that makes you geniuses feel you simply have to post when you have nothing intelligent to say?

I wonder if you're bored locked in your shtick? Or even if you're conscious of being locked in? You've convinced me that you're totally deluded. So I can toss you for lolz with no pangs of conscience. Sort of like drowning a kitten that's already dead.

After Hari, I thought the gravy train was over, then I get the gift of you Dee Dee. I must be doing something right.
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@ethang5



ethang5,


Find your fastest running shoes, and RUN AWAY once again from your post above that signifies you in being the number 1 Bible ignorant fool on DEBATEART Religion Forum.

NEXT?
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ethang5
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@BrotherDThomas
What is it about compulsion and obsession that makes you geniuses feel you simply have to post when you have nothing intelligent to say?

You must have not seen that question Dee Dee, because we know you never dodge or run away. Right?
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@ethang5



ethang5,

Shhh, what part of you running away from the link below didn't you understand? Huh?  Reading comprehension problems again? :(



NEXT?


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ethang5
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@BrotherDThomas
You saw the question but ran away.

What would the morons at Landover think if they saw you running and dodging questions Dee Dee? Tsk, tsk.
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NEXT?

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ethang5
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@BrotherDThomas
Dear Dee Dee,

You've spammed the same thing to several threads more than ten times and I can only flag you for spam ten times a day. Tomorrow, I will continue flagging your genius posts. OK?
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ethang5
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@BrotherDThomas
So why are you spamming Dee Dee. If you get banned for it, will it be because Jesus said something?

Lol.
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NEXT?


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