Exploration of the Religious Thinker: Interview #2 - Rosends

Author: RationalMadman
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Welcome back seekers of divine truth, our journey continues!

This time we have the mysterious Rosends to discuss Judaism and all that it entails with us.

In the words of Orthodox Jew Rosends, God is neither good nor evil:

 These are human labels which we use to try and wrap out finite brains around an infinite concept.

Wow! 
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@rosends
As a fellow finite human being, what do you feel led you further down the path to divine truth than the average human being?

Do you find the path to be linear or more web-like in nature?
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@RationalMadman
"what do you feel led you further down the path to divine truth than the average human being?"

Am I further down that path? If I have a received religious understanding -- not one that I developed on my own, but that I subscribe to as a matter of theological dogma, does that push me down a path, or just put me in a category?

"Do you find the path to be linear or more web-like in nature?"

Calling it a path intimates that there is a goal, an end or at least a way of progressing. But if my understanding is that the nature of God cannot be understood, is there any path at all? Sure, certain esoteric and mystical branches of Judaism aim to "understand" the nature of God, but even they admit that they are trying to come terms with things on a level very separate from the "truth" which no human can access.
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@rosends
If no human can access truth and there is no real destination or even a path, then how can your destination be Judaism and how can God's ethos be sufficiently described in the scriptures of Judaism?
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@RationalMadman
"If no human can access truth and there is no real destination or even a path, then how can your destination be Judaism and how can God's ethos be sufficiently described in the scriptures of Judaism?"

Who said that Judaism is my destination? It is my identity and belief system. The scriptures in Judaism describe actions and behaviors and record statements, rules and events, many of which hinge on God's preference. Does that describe an ethos?
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@rosends
So am I correct in saying that you regard Judaism as a way of life, a choice more than a duty?

I ask as you identified as Orthodox, implying severe devotion to the cause and I presumed you to hold Judaism as an ultimate truth of sorts.

I will go ahead and ask you another question, assuming that you are indeed less Gnostic than first presumed:

This journey that you speak of, is it one that we ought to all take or rather one that you pity those who don't take it?
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@RationalMadman
"So am I correct in saying that you regard Judaism as a way of life, a choice more than a duty?"

It is a way of life (in addition to a religion) but no, it is no choice. It is an identity incumbent upon me by birth. Though there are Jews by choice, I am one by birth so I am who I am.

"I ask as you identified as Orthodox, implying severe devotion to the cause and I presumed you to hold Judaism as an ultimate truth of sorts."

Well, devotion to my understanding of the religious obligations. Others who follow other denominations might claim the same devotion but to a different understanding of the religion. I'm not sure what it would mean to hold a religion as an ultimate truth so I can't really answer that. Judaism does not say that all other religions are wrong but it does claim to have an understanding of what God wants of the world.

"This journey that you speak of, is it one that we ought to all take or rather one that you pity those who don't take it?"
Have I spoken of a journey? That is a term I have had trouble with so I'm surprised if I spoke of it as something we are to be on.

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@rosends
Assuming that you're not on a journey, that there is no destination and that there is absolutely no path along which we reach the truth or bliss of god, what is it that makes you feel this is true:

It is a way of life (in addition to a religion) but no, it is no choice. It is an identity incumbent upon me by birth. Though there are Jews by choice, I am one by birth so I am who I am.
Do you not think that's actually unhealthy? The fact you are referring to is that parents blackmail their children into a faith based on what they see as an inescapable part of their ethnicity which should actually be a 100% consent-based decision by the person to adhere to or not. In my eyes that's immoral and a very toxic result of overattaching religion to one's own identity.
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@RationalMadman
"Do you not think that's actually unhealthy?"

No more unhealthy than being born with brown hair. It is an aspect of my identity. I'm not sure what blackmail you refer to. My parents never asked my opinion about all sorts of parts of who I am. They inculcated me with all sorts of social norms, mores and ideals. My medical "journey" through vaccinations and such was never upon my consent, nor was compulsory education (state curriculum or otherwise). I didn't choose where I lived. Why should one part of my identity suddenly have to be based on my agreement and participation? Unless we see faith and belief in a religious code (as opposed to a political structure, a general societal-moral code or a scientific code) as external, we don't have to see education in it as blackmail.

Judaism is both a belief system and a part of genetic identity. I was born Jewish under Jewish law. I was also born an American citizen, under American law, and no one asked me at the age of 2 if I felt represented by my congresspeople or if the local judicial code was something I consented to.
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@rosends
I think we lack too much middle ground to continue this interview successfully.
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@RationalMadman
OK, but if you ever want to explore the way a religious Jew thinks and learn about it by asking questions, feel free to let me know.

811 days later

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@rosends
OK, but if you ever want to explore the way a religious Jew thinks and learn about it by asking questions, feel free to let me know.
Do you accept that the Jews hold a minority view on religion.
Judaism has some 14 million followers mainly Jews.

But Islam and Christian have each about 2 billion followers.

Even Hinduism has over a billion followers.


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@Shila
Should we start by pointing out that you responded with a non sequitur? Or just that you are using a rhetorical fallacy of appealing to popularity?

Does it matter to you that there are more Hindus than Christians so you are a minority?

When you are ever ready to have a productive conversation in which you deal with issues at hand and recognize your own ignorance about Judaism, let me know. Till then I'll just watch your ineffective trolling and giggle. 
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@rosends
Should we start by pointing out that you responded with a non sequitur? Or just that you are using a rhetorical fallacy of appealing to popularity?

Does it matter to you that there are more Hindus than Christians so you are a minority?

When you are ever ready to have a productive conversation in which you deal with issues at hand and recognize your own ignorance about Judaism, let me know. Till then I'll just watch your ineffective trolling and giggle. 
It would matter to me if I was a religious teacher to see what I teach is a minority view.
3000 years of antisemitism should be plenty proof Judaism isn’t working or helping Jews.

When what the Jews rejected (Jesus) launched a new religion Christianity with over 2 billion followers. Should be humbling and a revelation to any Jewish Rabbi.


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@Shila

When what the Jews rejected (Jesus) launched a new religion Christianity with over 2 billion followers. Should be humbling and a revelation to any Jewish Rabbi
No, it makes us laugh. It is like watching people cheer for a boy band cover of a Beatles song. 
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@rosends
When what the Jews rejected (Jesus) launched a new religion Christianity with over 2 billion followers. Should be humbling and a revelation to any Jewish Rabbi

No, it makes us laugh. It is like watching people cheer for a boy band cover of a Beatles song. 
I cannot believe after what Europe did to the Jews you still you see them as a boy band cover of a Beatles song. 
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@Shila
Fair point.nit as good as a boy band. Maybe like a Barney version. 
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@Barney
Fair point.nit as good as a boy band. Maybe like a Barney version. 
I am so sorry for this disrespect to you, please do not take it to heart.
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@RationalMadman

I cannot believe after what Europe did to the Jews you still see them as a boy band cover of a Beatles song. 


Rosends: Fair point.nit as good as a boy band. Maybe like a Barney version. 
RM: I am so sorry for this disrespect to you, please do not take it to heart.
I too would have brushed it off if it was just disrespect. I think it takes more than an apology from you.
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@Shila
Barney may never recover...
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Barney may never recover...
At least he didn’t attack the Beatles. The Beatles have a fan base of 1.7 billion.