George Floyd. Thoughts?

Author: Vader

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#61
Vader
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@Danielle
And what did I say? You said that cops don't say anything about stuff like this? I responded saying that's not true. The Policing System is flawed and Americans know that, but don't act like good cops don't exist when there are plenty of them who do. I have family who work for the CPD who have put their hearts on the line defending the cities they serve. Just because multiple dirty racist cops do a horrible, egregious, and vile act doesn't mean 99.9% of officers are bad. The system is flawed in itself and Minneapolis has a flawed system with their cops and many cases have been reported

As for looting, destroying the livelihoods of many people who own small businesses (eg: a place that stores ancient native american archives) was burned down and lost all their records. Family owned businesses destroyed. These people may lose their livelihoods due to this, with the debt and fees they will pay. I understand that buildings are replacable, especially Target's and Autozone's, but by trashing local businesses, you ruin other people's livelihoods associated with this. A women was kidnapped by protesters and it was filmed live. I have a problem with innocent people who had nothing to do with this being in grave danger. There are better ways to go about protesting. Peacefully protesting in large masses is effective. Doing things in large masses peacefully works. I understand that police were tear gassing those people, and I shame and spit on those people who have done that. Our country was built off peaceful protest.

You're responding to hate with hate. We should respond to hate with love. Ghandi did it and his mission became successful.
#62
blamonkey
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The protests, the person, or the police officer? The forum topic doesn't specify, although since you're fielding thoughts, I'll answer all three.

Protests

I doubt anybody is willing to defend violent protests. I will say that the arson damages the message the protesters are trying to send, (although not all are implicated in burning down businesses and razing districts). Those caught committing crimes of any sort should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law.

Person

No idea who the person is, and I don't think it matters in all honesty. 

Police Officer

Regardless of if he is charged with a crime or what charge is appropriate, it was definitely high time to strip him of his badge. He is clearly unfit to uphold the law given his professional malfeasance, and the department was definitely in the right by firing him. 


What Probably Matters More

The Minneapolis Police Dept. has a history of failing to retrain or fire problem officers even before this incident though, with supervisors unable to document problematic police officers and inaccurate (and often contradictory) "coaching" sessions which are used as an alternative to other types of punishment to allow for problem police officers to brush up on a specific policy (1). Calls for reform, in this instance, are legitimate and almost certainly should be pursued. To be fair, many of the noted deficiencies of the police department are not specific to the region. Other police departments allow for officers to purge their disciplinary records (2) (3), and the shared knowledge and cooperation between police departments and prosecutors can jeopardize the integrity of investigations into misbehaving police officers (4 p. 582 onward). In addition, some police officers resign even before they are disciplined for a crime or breach of policy to join other departments (5).

I should probably put a disclaimer here: most police officers are not evil. They have a difficult job, and I doubt many people want to join the force. That said, there are clearly lapses of police accountability in many departments, including the Minneapolis one.

Sources
#63
Danielle
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@Vader
You're responding to hate with hate. We should respond to hate with love. Ghandi did it and his mission became successful.

Almost 30 years after Rodney King and it took 5 days to arrest this murderer? Fuck that.

That Ghandi example is cute, but I doubt you want to go tit-for-tat in name dropping success stories. History is chock full of examples of military prowess and violence leading to meaningful change and revolution. This country's founding is one of many examples where we celebrate victory through violence.

Businesses have insurance. Unfortunately force is the only thing people respond to sometimes. That and financial disruptions. It looks like these protests are looking to utilize both.

Innocent people suffering is always tragic, but when the people are fighting GOVERNMENT our options are limited. It's hilarious that white people and conservatives love celebrating the 2nd amendment and noting how we might need weapons to fight the state one day, but when we see black people do it, it's automatically criminal and unjustifiable and we look for "peaceful" resolution. Ha.

#64
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@TheDredPriateRoberts
took a while before the actual truth came out and the lies uncovered so yeah it does take more than a few seconds. 

I'm commenting on this incident. It doesn't take more than a few seconds to know what he did was blatant murder.

You're not allowed to put your knee on someone's fucking throat until they're unconscious. Even if you're a cop. Surprise! 
#65
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@blamonkey
I doubt anybody is willing to defend violent protests. 

Wrong. 

Regardless of if he is charged with a crime or what charge is appropriate

Stop. He murdered someone on film. For no reason. The appropriate charge is clear.
#66
TheDredPriateRoberts
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@Vader
I think it's safe to assume black people held some of those jobs and probably needed them.  They probably needed to shop at those store due to lack of transportation or whatever.  Now they are without.  People who had nothing to do with this murder, black people as well as other races.  Those who try to justify the riots expose themselves for the kind of people they truly are.

If those business rebuild it will take a long time, meanwhile people are w/o jobs, places to shop etc.  Does anyone think these companies that chose to rebuild will just eat the cost?  How about destroying police cars and their building, who do they think pays for that?  the cops themselves?  

I say it all the time, the movie idiocracy was actually prophecy. 
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#67
Vader
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@Danielle

Businesses have insurance. Unfortunately force is the only thing people respond to sometimes. That and financial disruptions. It looks like these protests are looking to utilize both.
How do you know that a business will recover from this? They may go bankrupt, lose all their business, be left with nothing but suffering and sadness because there store was illegally and unfairly trashed. If it was a racist that owned it, go ahead, but I have heard of no places that were trashed supporting the racists.

And think about the employees of big businesses. They work a minimal wage job in a struggling time economically. Now there living is trashed and they aren't able to find work so they can't pay the bills and are left in the street. That certainly isn't fair to that minimum wage employee who had no involvement in any of the racist acts done by cops
Innocent people suffering is always tragic, but when the people are fighting GOVERNMENT our options are limited. It's hilarious that white people and conservatives love celebrating the 2nd amendment and noting how we might need weapons to fight the state one day, but when we see black people do it, it's automatically criminal and unjustifiable and we look for "peaceful" resolution. Ha.
Playing the race card works so well with these arguments doesn't it?

Rioting is criminal behavior.
Killing people is criminal behavior.

This isn't the government being unjust, this a racist cop who killed an innocent black man. That cop should've never been on the streets. Period. He gets charged, reform happens within the policing department of Minneapolis. 

America's ultimate goal is to never try to evoke war or harm. In fact, we tried avoiding war in WWI before we had to get involved and did not want any part in WWII until Pearl Harbor came around. We established the UN so we won't have to resort to violence to make treaties. It should be an ultimate goal to make peace before fightng

#68
Danielle
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Those who try to justify the riots expose themselves for the kind of people they truly are.

Presuming riots are unjustified  is an attitude reserved for the privileged and the ignorant.  The white boys commenting here are both. Ya'll have never been harassed by police for your race, do not fear cops because of your race, do not experience systemic injustice for race or any other reason (this is where a few people step in to claim they're poor, aww) and quite frankly if this incident doesn't turn your stomach then there is no hope for you. You will always be vanilla bumpkins who prefer to be comfortable than acknowledge the very real problems we have with law enforcement. That's fine. I've said my peace and we'll see if this prick is finally used to set an example for scumbag cops who feel perfectly comfortable murdering someone on camera while their colleagues stand around and watch. The fact that this cop felt so okay doing that and nobody stopped him proves (although there is a lot of proof) that cops simply do not fear retaliation for their perpetual abuses. Sad. 

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#69
Vader
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@Danielle
Your example exist in decades of the 1770s, 1860s, etc where a government oppressed a certain group of people by law.

There is no law here oppressing black people, but a society and police force that have abused their power, Destroy the police if you have a problem with them as they are responsible for the actions that occurred, not the business owners who have no connections. It's ok to feel anger, but logic helps. I am angry at this event and am fuming. There is a rally this Sunday in Chicago that I will be most likely be attending. This is peaceful protest.
#70
TheDredPriateRoberts
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@Danielle
It's hilarious that white people and conservatives love celebrating the 2nd amendment and noting how we might need weapons to fight the state one day, but when we see black people do it, it's automatically criminal and unjustifiable and we look for "peaceful" resolution. Ha.
destroying your own city, your neighbors lively hood etc is not fighting the state nor has any conservative group or pro 2a done that.

 It doesn't take more than a few seconds to know what he did was blatant murder.

You're not allowed to put your knee on someone's fucking throat until they're unconscious. Even if you're a cop. Surprise! 
it took more than a few seconds for him to become unconscious so your hyperbole isn't helpful.  last I heard it took 7-8 minutes 

choking IS an approve police tactic, not trachial but the arteries are fare game.
#71
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@Vader
Rioting is criminal behavior.
Killing people is criminal behavior.

Colin Kaepernick kneeled down and donated money to community outreach problems and got shit all over. Riots get national attention and promote change. I don't think it's the best way but I understand why people are doing it. Stop with the toxic positivity bullshit. 

What are you doing to help? What have you ever done to help or make your voice heard on this issue? Probably nothing so I don't think anyone who worries about this life experience cares about your perspective. 




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#72
Vader
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@Danielle
Ya'll have never been harassed by police
I have been harassed by police because of my age before if we want to play that game. DM me if you want to hear the story
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#73
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@Danielle
Colin Kaepernick kneeled down and donated money to community outreach problems and got shit all over. Riots get national attention and promote change. I don't think it's the best way but I understand why people are doing it. Stop with the toxic positivity bullshit. 
Colin Kaepernick is an example of how to go about protesting. Drawing national attention to something while peaceful doing so.
What are you doing to help? What have you ever done to help or make your voice heard on this issue? Probably nothing so I don't think anyone who worries about this life experience cares about your perspective. 
I've signed petitions, going to attend rallies, and have spread stuff through social media. As much as I can do being a 16yr old

#74
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@Danielle
Let me clarify. What he did was wrong. I'm not trying to deny that he murdered someone. I just don't get into the minutiae of whether it was in the first or second degree or whatever. I've just had a 20 minute discussion with someone IRL who tried to convince me it was only second or third degree and it honestly does not matter. Murder is murder, no matter who the victim is. I can't imagine many would defend the police officer's actions given what we see and know. 

As for the violent protests, I feel that the message of police malfeasance being a problem is undermined. The complaints are legitimate, but media pundits are likely to brush off the officer's crime and only focus on the violence of the protests. I'm reminded of the neverending coverage of BLM and how it impacted people's perception of the police shooting. I can't speak for everyone, but the people I know did not take subsequent incidents of police brutality seriosuly and any honest conversation about police malfeasance instantly derailed into people berating the BLM. Because opinions influence policies, this is a problem. Is this the fault of the protesters? No, obviously not. It's just an unfortunate aspect of humans that people cannot and will not differentiate between a protest (violent or otherwise) and a killing without comparing the two.

#75
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@TheDredPriateRoberts
destroying your own city, your neighbors lively hood etc is not fighting the state nor has any conservative group or pro 2a done that.

I'm not going to repeat myself on the utility of protests to respond to this straw man. 

it took more than a few seconds for him to become unconscious so your hyperbole isn't helpful. 

Everything that cop did was illegal. You aren't allowed to choke someone to death. You aren't allowed to use deadly force when someone is lying on the ground with their neck under your knee cap. The cop had a disgusting SMIRK on his face as he had someone pinned down on the ground pleading for their life, gasping for air, not posing any physical threat at all whatsoever. He was surrounded by other cops as back-up so this pussy can't even use the little bitch defense that he was "scared for his life" as all pathetic cops do when they constantly shoot dogs and shit.

Surveillance footage shows the cops lies about Floyd resisting arrest  (big surprise). The coroner's report showed the cop kept his knee pressed on Floyd's neck for almost 3 full minutes after he was unconscious. You could see from two seconds of the video that once Floyd was subdued, every single violent action the cop took was illegal let alone breaking his neck. Just stop with the pathetic attempts at excuses or "two sides to every story" nonsense because it's sickening. Don't embarrass yourself.

#76
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@Vader
As much as I can do being a 16 year old

Lol, fair enough. 
#77
TheDredPriateRoberts
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@Danielle
Presuming riots are unjustified  is an attitude reserved for the privileged and the ignorant. 
you would justify the hurting of innocent people either physically or financially?  you really think that gains sympathy and support?

you want to make it a race thing but if you'd search just a little you'd see it a cop thing.

the peaceful protests for equal rights and to end segregation worked didn't they?  I don't recall mass looting and arson.

#78
Danielle
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@TheDredPriateRoberts
you want to make it a race thing but if you'd search just a little you'd see it a cop thing.

It's not JUST a race thing, but it certainly IS a race thing.

The overwhelming majority of cops are trash which is why there is a systemic problem. It's not only about race although it definitely is a factor. 

There's a reason that cunt cop felt perfectly comfortable doing what he did and killing someone while being recorded and with other cops standing around. He obviously didn't expect that guy to die but NONE of what he did is allowed.

If you watch the video from another angle, it shows the other cops digging deeper and pushing Floyd down harder as he pleads to stand up for air. All of the cops will be charged and I hope they all get raped in jail, along with every other cop who abuses their power and watches others abuse theirs. 

I understand the protests.  Watching the Floyd videos makes me want to set things afire. I feel rage, sadness, hopelessness and anger. I cannot imagine how those feelings would be intensified if I were a black person and routinely watched people get away with murdering others who look like me.

The peaceful protestors and community organizers are openly and actively decreeing the bad behavior of looters and taking actions to try and stop it. What's funny is y'all want to hold the actions of a few looters against the protest as a whole, but you won't hold all law enforcement accountable for the actions of these murderous pieces of shit. People won't do it in spite of the fact that by and large law enforcement institutions, including unions, do gymnastics to protect or shield bad officers from punishment. Sad.





#79
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@Danielle
The overwhelming majority of cops are trash which is why there is a systemic problem.
Where’s the evidence? This is a radical claim you’re making.
#80
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@ILikePie5
Where’s the evidence? This is a radical claim you’re making.

It's not a claim; it's an opinion so I don't have to prove it. I can EXPLAIN it by noting the perpetual systemic problems. The lack of whistleblowers should upset everyone.
#81
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I may have been a little dramatic in saying the "overwhelming" majority. It's just the majority. 
#82
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@Danielle
I'd imagine that even good officers are prevented from coming forward due to fear of ostracization from their fellow cops. Despite some reasoned objections related to the logistics of outfitting so many cops with body cameras, I think they might go a long way to deterring police abuse and informing the public when these incidents happen. I mean, just the knowledge that one is being recorded is a deterrent. That said, police officers are always free to turn off their cameras, and data storage is of short supply. The major problem is that we only hear of these injustices when evidence is recorded and publicized, which means there is a high chance of abuse that escapes the public eye unless you follow these cases religiously. What do you think would help in weeding out police corruption and abuse?
#83
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@Danielle
No, respecting someone for the job they hold alone is really stupid. If I'm going to do that then it's going to be for doctors and nurses who save lives every single day and don't go around demanding that everyone lick their assholes like cops do (and look at you complying! how do they taste?).  I have no idea why you think cops automatically deserve reverence but that boot licking mentality is pathetic and has no place in my life.

The comparison of blacks and cops is also pathologically stupid. "Blacks" do not hold positions of inherent power and authority. Blacks are not known to be above the law. Blacks do not have a reputation for getting away with murder. Blacks do not have a union that specifically shields them from the abuses they notoriously commit. Etc.

I never said I hated all cops in this thread btw. In my last post I did call out good cops for being pussies but prior to that I didn't say anything about hating ALL cops. Interesting you'd go with that narrative though. 
the only jobs i dont respect are sex workers, everyone else is taking a job to feed their families

cops protect our neighborhood and put their lives on their line every day but one of them made a mistake and riots? it is a respectful occupation by definition. You also  boot lick doctors yet one can make the argument that medical mistakes kill 300k a year

Blacks do hold power, they are many black cops and we just had a black president, they comprise of the majority of basketball and football and dominate the headlines, cops are not above the law either, the cop who killed floyd was charged with 3rd degree murder. There are numerous unions for blacks across America.

you absolutely hate all cops, you called good ones aka 99.9 percent of cops as "pussies", that is hating on a good profession

oh and this quote

The overwhelming majority of cops are trash which is why there is a systemic problem.


#84
TheDredPriateRoberts
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@Danielle
your emotions are getting the better of you as you are arguing with someone in generally agrees with you, take a breath if you please, I understand this is a very emotional issue.
there are 2 sides to every story and then there is the truth.
there were potentially 2 sides of this story which is moot in lieu of the truth.
would it be hypocritical to protest specific police murders instead of all of them?  twice as many white people are killed by police than blacks, however blacks are disproportionately killed, but then again blacks commit crimes at a disproportionate higher level.
but let's set all that aside if we can.  Cops should not be murdering anyone.  There's an old debate largely ignored about the militarization of the police which I believe is true.  Who runs the police, the government, the police is an extension of the government.  this is important when you look at how some favor more government and more government control and vote accordingly.
Personally I think the only "police" should be sheriffs,  their duty is to protect the constitution and citizens, they are elected by citizens and I don't think they are in the super powerful police union.
there can't be any meaningful police reform imo because of their union.  there are not enough people willing to be cops so their choice of recruits is limited.

as to this murder, the protests should be for all those murdered by the police even if you have to look at is the enemy of my enemy.  I will tell you the rioting and looting HAS hurt the image of what happened and detracted from it.  Violence begets violence it has and will end one way or another.
Having been without a job before, my heart and attention is now focused on those who will not have one for a long time or may lose it all together through absolutely no fault of their own.  
Again taking it out on police property, vehicles and or the murderer is at least logical even though you just hurt yourself/community.  No excuse can be made for what they have done.  Did you hear the woman yelling out to kill white people by any chance?  What could have been an event to pull people together to affect change has be destroyed by selfishness and stupidity.
#85
ILikePie5
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@Greyparrot
@TheDredPriateRoberts
I will tell you the rioting and looting HAS hurt the image of what happened and detracted from it.  Violence begets violence it has and will end one way or another.
I have liberal friends telling me the violence is justified because it’s the only way for change. People are actively preaching violence and it’s scary.
#86
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@ILikePie5
Most of those liberals have never had a violent moment in their life. They speak from ignorance.

I've experienced my fair share of violence, both from the criminal side and the police side.
#87
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The overwhelming majority of cops are trash which is why there is a systemic problem.

Any job with authority while being shielded with a worker union is toxic.

That includes teachers.
#88
TheDredPriateRoberts
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@ILikePie5
really?  I wonder if they could say that to the black guy crying because he lost his business or the others hurt similarly.
#89
ILikePie5
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@TheDredPriateRoberts
really?  I wonder if they could say that to the black guy crying because he lost his business or the others hurt similarly.
I told them that a death of a black man doesn’t justify the destruction of another man’s property and they were like it’s the only way to get the government’s attention. They were literally advocating for violence. Scary.
#90
TheDredPriateRoberts
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@ILikePie5
they got the attention, now it seems in the form of the national guard, more government employees with guns, contraz, well done to them.