did God put medicen in plants for all disease

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#31
BrotherDThomas
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@PressF4Respect


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PressF4Respect,

YOUR SICKLY QUOTE: "The truth is, pathogens exist, and they do cause diseases."

The bottom line if you are a TRUE Christian, and not a pseudo-christian in name only like EtrnlVw represents, then the biblical axiom that if you catch a disease, even a deadly one, all you have to do is literally "pray it away!"  This is the "Ace in the hole" for TRUE Christians like myself, praise!

Jesus stated; “And all things, whatsoever ye shall ask in prayer, BELIEVING, ye shall receive.” (Matthew 21:22)  Key word: “believing,” which triggers the prayer in a direct absolute manner in receiving your prayer request, like healing oneself of any sickness.  It’s just that simple, besides, do you want to call Jesus a LIAR relative to what He said in the verse in question? I think not!

As with any biblical doctrine, there is a drawback, and that is, if a Christian does not get their prayer answered pertaining to the healing of their sickness, then the onus is put upon them because they obviously didn’t “believe” enough as the verse in question so states as a prerequisite to your healing,  and the rest is history. 


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#32
EtrnlVw
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So how would you respond

Lol how would I respond? I would say it doesn't in any way negate that it could very well be the case, does it? I mean I could make up a "fallacy" called "the assumption that a Divine origin could never be the case Fallacy" and ask you how you would respond to it. I'm not assuming that God is the only explanation (although the only one that seems plausible), but unless you have an explanation as to why plants have a curative value maybe consider it as a possibility. 
#33
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While it is true that some plants do have some medicinal properties, that a healthy lifestyle is important to maintaining one's well-being, and that some medications do have potentially severe side effects (some are also ludicrously expensive, mostly due to certain pharmaceutical companies having monopolies over them), one cannot entirely discredit the role that pathogenic microbes play in causing diseases. These germs are tangible (visible through a microscope) and are responsible for most of the diseases that plague humanity.

But the same thing applies when you understand the role of the lymphatic system, the body in its healthy state of being always seeks to eliminate that which it is infected by, when that system is compromised the body cannot eliminate. Germs, pathogens and viruses stay in the body when the body can no longer eliminate them. They aren't "diseases" in the way people understand that term. 
In other words germs, viruses and microbes can be cleaned out and eliminated naturally given that the individual is eating correctly and then using the right herbs to strengthen and support cell function. Another way to look at it is that if the terrain of the body is dirty and unkept it attracts these types of things, you could use the analogy of running clear water as opposed to a stagnant cesspool where bacteria and germs can fester.....in a smooth running system where everything is "moving" and eliminating these problems don't thrive and possibly never occur at all. On top of that clean water would never attract germs and fester unwanted bacteria. All these things are not diseases though, that's a fabrication to induce fear and control...just take a look at the system as a whole and look at mans condition within that system worldwide. 

Besides, how would a perfectly healthy human become sick from transmission (say, COVID-19) if diseases are simply the result of a deficient lifestyle? How come life expectancy a few centuries ago was significantly lower than it is today, despite all of the "remedies" being natural? Why were illnesses such as measles, polio, and even diabetes (which were rampant and almost always fatal before the advent of modern medication) not being cured by herbal medication? Why did the various plagues throughout history cause so much death when pure and wholesome treatments existed to supposedly eliminate them?

One of the main reasons is indeed the condition of the physical body and even "back then" the lifestyles weren't always healthy so you have to take that into consideration as people's eating habits especially in European countries have been poor for awhile. One could make the argument that many indigenous groups have no access to modern medication and have survived without it even to this day. 
The body is equipped with multiple elimination systems....the kidneys, the skin and of course the lymphatic system. The lymphatic system is the system that handles viruses and things the like. Modern medication has no curative properties so your point is moot, people with diabetes always have diabetes, and I'd rather not open up a can of worms trying to break down vaccines for you at this moment. But most of the things vaccines are used on the body develops natural immunity to. The funny part is even the very people who undergo vaccinations still get measles, chickenpox, mumps and other such symptoms from viruses so where is your point about modern medicine curing things? have you done your research? what does it actually cure? suppressing symptoms is not healing or curing. 
Only eating good foods and using botanicals cure, reverse disorders. Because they don't treat symptoms they address the root causes. Many other symptoms the human body faces as a result of acidosis is not from diseases, it's poor eating habits that inhibit the body to properly clean itself and maintain itself. The symptoms that arise as a result are labeled diseases and then a drug is sought out to deal with it, this is the cycle that produces and supports a big money making operation that has no real basis in healing. 

The truth is, pathogens exist, and they do cause diseases.

Again, these aren't "diseases" they are conditions that the body suffers as a result of not being able to eliminate properly. It is cause and effect.....they label those symptoms diseases but they are just symptomatic responses. If the body was operating at optimum performance there would be no real problems. 

#34
EtrnlVw
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If you're really curious about this or want a good source to educate yourself with I have a legit educated teacher that can relay the value of good foods and botanicals. They're not all on the same level, the guy I follow you would probably like a lot. He doesn't use drugs and pharmaceuticals to deal with mans suffering, he puts people on the right diet and uses herbal formulas to support and strengthen cell function. This way there is no need for prescription drugs, dangerous side effects and fear....one can use what God gave to master their own environment. 
#35
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Here's a few links just so you know what I mean by the lymphatic system and the role it plays

This would be the system you would want working at optimum performance relative to viruses, germs, cancer, bacteria ect ect and all the symptoms that are labeled "diseases". The kidneys and skin would also be very important in the role of elimination. You wouldn't want to consume pharmaceuticals to suppress symptoms related to poor elimination rather you would want to support the bodies natural defense systems with foods and botanicals. I can link you to dozens of sources that show you the relation of good foods and lymphatic system health, the health of the glands and organs as well. 
#36
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YOUR SICKLY QUOTE
Heh. I'll admit, you do have a way with words.
#37
EtrnlVw
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So how would you respond to something like this?

Who comes up with this crap anyways? I bet there's some Atheist sitting at home laughing his arse off that he created so many "fallacies" in relation to the God hypothesis that a Theist can't even have an opinion or make a statement without someone claiming fallacies! lol. I've had conversations in forums where the other party claims so many fallacies not a single point can be made in favor of Theism... "Fallacy this and fallacy that", I mean at some point it's just a pattern of behavior to avoid addressing content, or to shy away from a viable option.

"The Divine Fallacy" seriously? is that supposed to be a joke?

"When People Assume that ‘God’ is the Only Explanation"....
what about when people assume that God is not a viable explanation? what is the name for that fallacy? what about materialism being the only explanation, or using science to support a materialistic worldview what's that fallacy?

"The divine fallacy is a logical fallacy that occurs when someone assumes that a certain phenomenon must occur as a result of divine intervention or a supernatural force"....
What if a phenomenon DID occur as a result of Divine intervention? what is the name of that fallacy when someone negates that possibility? or uses a made up fallacy like this one to avoid a legitimate proposition?

"because they don’t know how to explain it otherwise, or because they can’t imagine that this isn’t the case."
Lol this seems to be the case on both sides of the equation not just on the Theistic side. So what is the fallacy called when someone who negates the possibility of a Creator yet can't explain how and why something occurs?
If one can't imagine that this isn't the case, what if it isn't the case? if no other explanation is available why is it a fallacy to have an explanation lol?

"if I don’t know how to explain a certain phenomenon using science, then it must occur as a result of some divine intervention."
This assumes that we can't use science as a means to explain how God does things, which assumes science (as a neutral study) supports atheism. That is ridiculous. What do you call the fallacy that the method of science can't be used to support Theism rather than atheism?

"I don’t know how to explain this phenomenon using science."
Who says science and Theism aren't compatible? on the other hand even someone using science can't always explain why something occurs, such as intelligent processes and medicinal properties in herbs and plants.

"this phenomenon must occur as a result of divine intervention."
That's called a viable option, materialism and atheism aren't the only viable propositions...this article is so biased it's absolutely hilarious. I almost can't believe someone intelligent wrote it.

"For example, if someone doesn’t understand how evolution works"
You mean won't accept that evolution happens purely on its own accord? evolution is easy to understand but it doesn't have to be primarily a product of materialism that's two different things entirely. Why would anyone assume evolution is not a process God uses to bring things into existence? why does it have to be assumed that evolution is only compatible with atheism? what should we call this fallacy?
let me be more blunt, both science AND evolution do not belong to atheism. That is a fallacy of its own. Science is a neutral study it just shows the processes involved in the manifestation of the universe, it doesn't make any claims about God or why these processes occur. Evolution is perfectly compatible with an intelligent Source, materialists and atheists don't own it as their own they are neutral studies. 

"It’s important to understand the divine fallacy, since people frequently use it in an attempt to discredit scientific theories"
Bullshyt, no one is attempting to discredit science I'm sick of this fallacy being rehashed. What people oppose is what I just pointed out. We oppose the assumption that science equals materialism or atheism or that evolution is only compatible with Darwinism.
Lets not get this confused, it is a battle between worldviews not between Theism and science itself. No one is allowed to hijack science to support a worldview and claim science supports only that proposition, again science is a neutral study, any worldview can interpret it how they see fit, and what seems more logical and or rational to them.
It is more important to understand the anti-Divine fallacy rather. Which attempts to discredit God being associated with scientific theories.

"The divine fallacy is frequently used in an attempt to discount various scientific findings and to support pseudoscientific alternatives that revolve around divine and supernatural explanations."
Yes, yes of course! its an attempt to discount scientific findings if the "alternative" is in favor of God lol, can you believe this garbage? I love how anything to do with the Divine or the supernatural is deemed "pseudoscientific alternatives" what a joke. Yeah I guess this article doesn't see how Theism could be a viable option, it doesn't get anymore biased does it? on top of that any opposition to their worldview is considered a fallacy, wow is all I can say here.

“Human beings are too complex to have evolved by chance. We must have been designed by God.”
Again, they make it sound as if that is absurd to claim when in fact it is a viable option not a friggin fallacy. What's absurd is to believe that somehow processes occur all by themselves and that inanimate forces can think, act and produce things without an intelligent Source and that we must have been designed by an inanimate process and chance....what fallacy is that?
 What they call a fallacy is really a legitimate opinion, an educated premise, it's no more a fallacy than it is to believe that it could have happened by chance, they are both opinions albeit one superior to the other. Human beings certainly evolved, but IMO the process didn't occur by itself. That isn't a fallacy that's a proposition. Why is only one proposition viable and the other a fallacy? I believe they call that bias.

"The God of the gaps fallacy"
Oh I love this one...God forbid any related God hypothesis fits somewhere within the gaps of our knowledge to assume there isn't a God. Oh yeah it must be a fallacy! like I always say, if God fits in the gaps it is viable to believe it's because God exists, don't they call that commonsense? oh excuse me, commonsense can't be utilized in relation to any Theistic concepts therefore it's another FALLACY! Give me a break, again the attempt to discredit any Theistic notion at all here is astounding. Even when God fits it's called a fallacy rather than a legitimate option, it's an assumed fallacy rather than an intelligent proposition! 

"Arguments that are based on the divine fallacy are inherently fallacious"
 For the love of God I can't read anymore. What's fallacious is the reasoning and brainwashing of this article which poses itself as some authority on what constitutes viability. None of this was aimed at you Press4, I'm just amazed at the insanity of this link. I was going to just ignore it but since you asked I replied to it. 

#38
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@EtrnlVw
Lol how would I respond? I would say it doesn't in any way negate that it could very well be the case, does it? I mean I could make up a "fallacy" called "the assumption that a Divine origin could never be the case Fallacy" and ask you how you would respond to it. I'm not assuming that God is the only explanation (although the only one that seems plausible)
Ok, so you're saying you're not sure why certain plants have certain medicinal properties and that God is just one possible explanation, right?

but unless you have an explanation as to why plants have a curative value maybe consider it as a possibility. 
Maybe the plants with medicinal compounds evolved to have them because it evolutionarily benefited them too, or maybe at some point in their evolutionary line, a neutral genetic mutation occurred which produced the compound.
#39
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Ok, so you're saying you're not sure why certain plants have certain medicinal properties and that God is just one possible explanation, right?

No I'm not unsure why plants have medicinal properties, however it's just one possible explanation. 

Maybe the plants with medicinal compounds evolved to have them because it evolutionarily benefited them too, or maybe at some point in their evolutionary line, a neutral genetic mutation occurred which produced the compound.

Maybe, I guess we could make guesses all day...at what point could we ever agree on the obvious? or that God is a viable option? plants don't have the anatomy of the very curative properties they contain to use on themselves. If a plant contains a cure or remedy for kidney stones for example, how does that benefit them lol?


#40
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@EtrnlVw
It's a nice conversation we're having here, but as I have some stuff to do, I probably won't be able to respond to it today. I'll do some research on #32-34 and respond when I have the time.
#41
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You bet, thanks. 
#42
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@PressF4Respect
 or maybe at some point in their evolutionary line, a neutral genetic mutation occurred which produced the compound.

Sure we could assume or use evolution and mutations as the means of thinking or producing benefits but what makes that anymore plausible than God as an intelligent factor involved? how would the evolution of a plant know or understand that it needed to produce medicine that corresponds with human and animal ailments? unless you're making the claim that it is simply coincidence that it produced variations of healing compounds associated with humans? I don't know if I could ever assume that it's the result of mutations, I think that is pushing the boundaries of silliness. Not when there is a more plausible option.
I would say it's less likely, simply because I'm not willing to just give inanimate processes the ability to formulate that which requires intelligence, thought or a mind to understand something so correlative. That's not to say I haven't or won't consider it, it's just I don't compromise on something that I feel is more logical and why should I? I tend to follow logic and rationale rather than assuming less likely scenarios or just some random mutations happened to produce very specific things for an entirely different species.
Now just to back up a hair, I'm not saying God exists because plants have medicine lol. It's more like using the observation as a means to show the Creators hand in creation, giving you yet another reason to consider a Theistic proposition. It's just another way of adding plausibility to the whole scenario. Actually the reason I believe in God has nothing to do with this topic but it is useful in making the case for God in smaller details. Ain't God in the details or was that the devil lol?

#43
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@crossed
"did God put medicen in plants for all disease".

No he didn't. A real clever god who so much loves you and the world would have made damn sure that diseases didn't come into being in the first place.

It was god that created all things including of these deadly plagues and diseases that wreak havoc across the faulty planet that he also created, although he thought  " all was good".Genesis 1:31 

He sent his only son to cure  only a chosen few infected with said diseases such as leprosy and blindness.  One does have to ask, why didn't his only son - who also loves us- simply eradicate all leprosy and all blindness , while he was here.

I am sure that medicine is in a plant for the benefit of the plant,  and we ,   have had to discover - on our own - that many  plants also have a benefit to mankind's health and are able to cure gods cock ups, faults and deadly mistakes.
#44
BrotherDThomas
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@Stephen


Stephen,

I do not understand why EtrnlVw is going to great lengths in proposing that certain plant structures have medicinal properties to cure diseases that Jesus, as Yahweh God incarnate, created in the first place, do you?  

As if EtrnlVw calling Jesus a LIAR in previous threads wasn't enough, he now slaps Jesus in the face once again by not accepting the fact that if he gets a disease he does not need plants for the cure, but only needs to pray his disease away!  

Jesus stated; “And all things, whatsoever ye shall ask in prayer, believing, ye shall receive.” (Matthew 21:22)  Key word: “believing,” which triggers the prayer in a direct and absolute manner in receiving your prayer request, like healing oneself of any sickness. 

Stephen, do you think that the pseudo-christian EtrnlVw is afraid of the "believing" part of Matthew 21:22, where he doesn't want to put that part to the test? Whereas, the outcome if he was not cured of his disease after his prayer request, that would show that EtrnlVw obviously didn't believe enough in Jesus as a prerequisite to his cure?

Pseudo-christians, ya got to love their entertainment they provide within this forum!




#45
ronjs
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@crossed
Well, revelation 22.2 says the leaves of the trees are for the healing of the nations , so it would not be  surprise that medicines are present in plant material and many ,if not all medicines are derived originally  from natural sources.
#46
BrotherDThomas
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@ronjs


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ronjs,

Do you suppose there is any plant structure that would eliminate the pseudo-christians blatant biblical ignorance that is shown ad infinitum within this forum?


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#47
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@BrotherDThomas
Only the true vine (John 15)
#48
BrotherDThomas
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@ronjs


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ronjs,

YOUR REVEALING QUOTE:  "Only the true vine (John 15)"

I get it, therefore the pseudo-christians upon this site are practicing John 15:6 because of their bible ignorance:  "If you do not remain in me, you are like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned."

Good call!


. 
#49
Stephen
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@BrotherDThomas
Stephen, do you think that the pseudo-christian EtrnlVw is afraid of the "believing" part of Matthew 21:22

Greetings Brother.

EtrnlVw has trouble doing anything on his own and without his "posse".  So I think that answers your question.


Maybe if EtrnlVw did believe in his own bullshit it may just happen. One never knows. 

I wonder after seeing that picture EtrnlVw  just might spare a prayer for this poor innocent baby that god loves so dearly and pray this babe's limbs into existence?

Further , I wonder if the next time EtrnlVw decides to speak to his Creator through prayer, would he ask him why did his creator even bother to  create such and inflicted being such as this poor baby? 




#50
BrotherDThomas
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@Stephen


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Stephen,

Oh my, how terrible of that little innocent baby to have been inflicted by such a deformity by my Jesus, as Yahweh God incarnate, since EtrnlVw and I know that Jesus, and not chance, decides what happens in human affairs “The lot is cast into the lap, but its every decision is from the LORD.” (Proverbs 16:33)

EtrnlVw and I can only wonder in what the mother did of this poor child to piss off Jesus!  Maybe Jesus is on a mission in India to make them discard their pagan beliefs in Hinduism, and to accept His loving and forgiving nature by believing in Christianity instead, therefore he drastically deformed this babies figure  to wake them up from their evil ways. 

Do you see why entities like this continually test my faith in the 21st century? 


.
#51
Barney
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@EtrnlVw
@Stephen
@BrotherDThomas
***
Beyond just what's reported, this thread has degraded pretty far into toxicity. As per the warning for this forum, I'm locking it for a day to give everyone time to cool off: https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/3621-moderation-notice

Any offenses after it is unlocked, will be treated as aggravated.

-Ragnar, DM
***

22 days later

Topic's author
#52
crossed
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Does cannabis cure epilepsy in children.All those druggy's always show those video's of the plant curing epilepsy.

I am not promoting drug use.Drug use destroys live's.It is something that you can not stop even if you wanted to.Drugs are so bad that if you take it you will never be able to stop.You hurt everyone around you.Don't do anything you can not stop doing.D not do drugs they are bad.Drugs are very bad.Drugs are very bad.Very bad.Do not do it.Don't think about it.Drug use is very bad.Do not do drugs for high.It is not as simple as just stopping.Try not eating for ten day's.You will find it not to be easy.You  find it hard to resist the urge to eat.Drugs are the same way.When your on drugs it is like trying to fast it is very hard to stop




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#53
crossed
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There is high amounts of mercury and lead in all herbs sold.Do not buy herbs


There is  lead and mercury in apple's at the store.


There is  lead and mercury in store bought fruit


There is high level's of lead and mercury in organic baby food.


There is high amounts of lead and mercury in weed cannabis

There is high amounts of lead and mercury in store bough fruit juice's


There is amounts of mercury and lead in bannana's pea's and avocado's


There is high amounts and lead and mercury in the herb tumeric.All herbs


There is high amounts of lead and mercury in store bough rice.

There is high amounts of lead and mercury in store bought fertaliser
























Again this is not medical advise
#54
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@Barney
weed cured my depression

if it can cure that it can cure anything lol 
#55
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@crossed
All medicines are derived from the universe, that is to say, nature.

Everything that occurs, occurs because it could.

Still doesn't validate the god hypothesis though.

God still remains firmly hypothetical.
#56
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@skittlez09
Weed is clinically proven to cure COVID-19, AIDS, Cancer, and the pain that comes from lacking friends.
#57
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hell yeah ofc 
#58
Outplayz
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@crossed
As a person that has been addicted to these medicines... natural mainly... who knows. Although i went through hell with certain drugs, they also changed me in a deep way at first. They helped me realize things about myself that i never saw. But always, with every euphoric substance i've tried, always it ends in pain. What does that mean? Something that can help me so much also ends in showing me hell. What does that mean? I know now, but do you? if not, ask me questions... bc i am a poly-addict. And although that is the case, i think all drugs should be legal. 
Topic's author
#59
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@Outplayz
I am not trying to talk about hallucinogenic.weed just happens to be the most popular plant so i brought it up.I am 99.9 percent talking about herbs


I am trying to explain on the phenomonon of people curing themselfs of disease.In like 24 to 48 hours with herbs.For example
Sweet wormwood can cure you of malaria in 24 to 48 when consumed.



tu youyou won a noble prize for her malaria cure.She discovered that drinking sweet wormwood tea can cure someone of maleria in 24 to 48 hours and she won a noble prize for it. During the veinam  war sweet wormwood was used to cure soldiers  of maleria in less then 24 to 48 hours.It  was like that of a magic potion

she organized clinical trials for people with malaria, and the participants were cleared of the disease within little more than a day.

When tested on mice and monkeys, it proved 100 per cent effective. "We had just cured drug-resistant malaria," Tu says. "We were very excited."
When tested on mice and monkeys, it proved 100 per cent effective. "We had just cured drug-resistant malaria," Tu says. "We were very excited."When tested on mice and monkeys, it proved 100 per cent effective. "We had just cured drug-resistant malaria," Tu says. "We were very excited."



Insulin plant is known to cure diabetes's.

Etc



This is not medical advise.Herbs have high amount of lead and mercury in them.They also interact with mediation.The fact that herbs interact with prescrition drugs prove's they have medicine.How would plants interact with drugs if there was no medicine in them
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zedvictor4
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Chemical reactions are chemical reactions....Ask a chemist to explain fully.

The nature of all organic structures dictates that all Plants contain chemical compounds, some of which may have a medicinal benefit.....This neither proves nor disproves a GOD hypothesis.

Eat the wrong plant or fungi and it will kill you, was this also an act of GOD?