five reasons it's stupid to vote for trump

so if bernie was the nominee, and a woman falsely accuses him of rape, but no one knows it's false and it looks like it could be credible, bernie should have to resign? 

The current system lets millions go bankrupt and countless people get sicker and/or die. The current system is broken as hell. But you think the government who is too incompetent to manage healthcare?

no, i want reasonable regulations of businesses so that we can guarantee that they act in the public good while they also try to earn a profit. For example, companies used to use alot of child labor to earn a profit. As a society we decided that should not be allowed. Companies bitched and moaned about how that limited their ability to make money. But they adapted, and as a society we are all much better off for it.

If left entirely to their own devices, corporations will do horrible things in pursuit of profit. The government needs to be a check on that greed to ensure that the public good is being maintained.

Who created the current system? 🤔🤔. Maybe a free market approach across state lines with more competition could lower prices. The free market is proven to work historically.

And the fact remains, with Medicare for All you’re going to force people off of the health insurance they like.

The whole point of a corporation is to earn money. That’s the definition of business. Without the money incentive there won’t be business. I hope you realize that. You can’t have it both ways. If you want to eliminate greed you won’t have corporations.

 You’ve already mentioned that companies are inherently greedy and greed is inherently bad. Congrats you’ve just destroyed the economy by destroying businesses.

Companies don't create jobs because they fear the whip. They create jobs out of greed.

HB either wants to bring back the whip or make everyone jobless.

the free market created the current system. It has failed. The free market is good at certain things. But primarily, it is good at making money. It is not inherently good at looking after the needs of people. Which is exactly what a healthcare system needs to do. 

This is just an incorrect statement. It's like saying that a man has a sandwich. If I also give him a drink I must be stealing the sandwich!!!.

Medicare for all, by definition, covers everything. So no one is losing any coverage. No one is losing insurance.

At worst they are maintaining the same coverage they have now.

The vast majority will be getting much better coverage. No one is losing their insurance. Not a single person.

of course you can have it both ways. We have been working on that for the last century. We want the competitive advantages of capitalism, but the control and concern for the public good. That is exactly what regulations are for. They contain the excess and the greed that is one of the main drawbacks of capitalism.

You are misunderstanding me. Greed is what drives corporations. That greed is necessary and can be a force for good. However, that greed is often at odds with the public good. That is why strong government regulations are desperately needed. That way we get the benefits of competition and capitalism, without the horrible side effects of uncontrolled avarice.

I want corporations to make jobs and make money.

I want corporations to make jobs and make money.

But that’s greedy and greed is bad right?

He’s contradicting himself so hard lol. He knows corporations are the backbone of the economy and to get rid of profit you’d inherently need govt control. He just refuses to admit it when he’s wrong so he’s backed himself into a corner.

HB is convinced corporations attract consumers and employees in a competitive free market mainly by poisoning and killing them.

Don't your parents regularly add mercury to the coffee so they can boost profits and drive more revenue and customers to their convenience store?

No, i feel like I am being very clear but somehow you are still not understanding me. Greed is a powerful motivator and can be channeled to accomplish great things. However if you do not put lots of checks and balances in place to keep that greed channeled into a constructive direction, you end up with horrible consequences. People end up dead or financially ruined. That it why we need capitalism, but with strong government regulation to make sure that people profit, but that it is good for the country and the people, not just a small handful of rich oligarchs. 

im not backed into any corner. I know corporations are the backbone of the economy. I have never disputed that. I have also never said we should get rid of profit. I don't know where you are getting this stupid ideas. I am not saying them. Why do you think that the choices are unregulated, chaos or communism?

no, but corporations regularly use sub-standard components in their products to reduce costs and maximize profit. 

These are reasons why we need regulations. So that if you use sub standard materials, you get a massive fine. If you dump toxic waste without treating, massive fine. If you lie to your consumers about the health impacts of your products, massive fine. This is one of the reasons governments exist. 

Laborers are ALWAYS going to earn less than the owner of the company.

What regulations do you specifically advocate for? Please give some specifics.

You said corporations are inherently greedy because they want to earn money. To stop greed you need to get rid of their desire to earn money. What am I getting wrong here? Please explain. 

There are literally millions of businesses that have failed in your lifetime in part because you and others like you refused to purchase a higher-priced better quality product.

There is no private water company on the planet that could have survived the lawsuits from Flint, but the government can kill as many people they want with impunity. Fuck you and your authoritative government solutions.

Labor standards for a starters. IE limits on the amounts of hours an employer can require a worker to work. Safety regulations, for example having sufficient fire escapes. There was a rather famous case of an employer sealing all the exits so his employees couldn't steal things and 146 employees (mostly women) burned to death. These are just a couple examples, there are many, many things that need proper regulation. 

Companies are inherent greedy, yes. I am not saying that we need to stop their greed. I never said that. I said that we need proper regulation so that in their pursuit of profit they do not act against the common good.

For example, we all agree children shouldn't be allowed to work in a dangerous factory. Children would be cheaper to hire than an adult. We are infringing on a company's ability to make money in order to protect children and serve the common good. We aren't doing it to get rid of greed. We aren't doing it to prevent them from making money. We are doing it to protect society (and in this case children).

most of them didn't really make that money either. They squeezed it out of the labor of others. -HB

I fail to see how that is in any way related to this conversation. We need to set minimums of what they are permitted to use. IE you can't use anything that would poison people. If companies want to use better materials than this, that is their business, not ours. It is completely irrelevant to regulations. 

All of these already exist. An employer cannot force someone to work. Labor laws already exist. Fire exits already exist. New regulations.

You’re saying we need more regulation and haven’t said anything about them. If greed isn’t bad why shouldn’t we keep the status quo anyways. You can’t have it both ways dude.

But you specifically say we need to stop companies’ greed. Companies are always going to be greedy. If you’re saying we should quantify greed then your morals are not where they should be.

most of them didn't really make that money either. They squeezed it out of the labor of others. -HB

Lets get back to the point. What regulations would you use that would stop this? Specific details please.

It's far easier to regulate you in the USA from buying cheap shit than it is to regulate a company from producing cheap shit considering the market is global.

Governments can regulate your greed to purchase cheap shit, and then, you can be happy with being forced to purchase inflated prices on stuff you would never ever choose to purchase with your own money, ever.

I'm not talking about controlling cheap products. I'm talking about regulating the production and sale of harmful products. If people want to buy cheap stuff that's fine, as long as it isn't hurting people.

The US needs stronger banking regulations for starters.

regulated capitalism is having it both ways. I don't claim to be an expert on every field. That is why we have government departments in charge to regulating those fields.

again, i have been very clear that greed can be a force for good when channeled properly. I am saying the government needs to regulate that greed to make sure it serves the public good and not just a handfull of rich oligarchs.

One interesting idea I heard was tying the amount you could pay a CEO to a proportion of the average wage of employees. EX. 100 times the average salary of your employee. Since CEOs all want to pay themselves more money, the only way they could do that would be raise the average wage of employees.

But again, I am not an expert on the field. I don't pretend to be. And I am quite certain you aren't either.

And what about people purchasing harmful products? Don't you think an authoritative government has an obligation to stop them from supporting companies with their reckless purchases?

I am sure you have more than a few Chinese products in your home, allowing those companies to pollute and poison the planet. You are an accessory to their greed with your irresponsible purchases. The government should stop you from continuing to support Chinese businesses and others in the USA that poison the planet. 

Make it illegal for you, personally to purchase products from poisoning businesses, either here or abroad. 

The US needs stronger banking regulations for starters.

Again like what? Specifics please.

There’s no such thing as regulated capitalism if you want to get rid of greed. The correct term would be socialism in this instance.

Why should we use your definition of greed?

What constitutes public good?

If people like what they’re buying they support the business. If they don’t like it, they stop buying and go to a competitor. Are you Americans are idiots by supporting companies of products they like?

 The solution is simple. If people don’t think they’re getting paid enough, they can leave and seek a job somewhere else.

Then why are you arguing for something you know nothing about. You have yet to name one specific regulation and details that you’re advocating for.

 I however know that the status quo is sure as hell working and there’s no point in changing it.

I'm not going to debate banking regulations with you. I can hardly get you to understand basic sentences I use without you completely misunderstanding or misrepresenting what I say. 

Here is yet another example of you misunderstand or misrepresenting what I say. I keep telling you that greed is fine as long as it is channeled properly. The point isn't to get rid of greed, it is to make sure that it serves to common good. And we have been doing that for the last 100 years. If you think that is socialism then america has always been a socialist country.

I'm not using a definition other than the commonly accepted one. Why do you think i am using a special one?

most people don't know what the companies they shop at are doing.

Coca Cola had union leaders in south america murdered. 

Very few people would have any knowledge of that. Walmart crushes every union that tries to form at their stores.

Most people don't know that either. Pretending that consumers can control corporations actions is a complete joke. There are near constant examples of companies doing shitty things.

No one can keep track of all of them. And even if they could, they would quickly find that there are very few companies they can shop at.

oh of course. I forgot that high paying jobs magically grow on trees and are readily available. This argument is juvenile. If corporations all pay as little as possible, then there simply aren't very many high paying jobs.

because this topic is not a detailed debate of regulation policy. You keep shifting topics whenever it suits you.

Then you are incredibly misinformed. This is one of the major problems today. The people who are doing well see the system and think it's great because they are doing well. While the 10's or 100's of millions who are getting crushed by the current economic system get completely ignored.

Or you don’t have anything. Thanks for the concession. Rather than using ad hominem maybe you should state what you mean instead of dancing around what you mean the last couple of pages.

Again, you’ve been advocating policies to decide how much a business owner should be paying their employees which is inherently a govt takeover of businesses. What you’re advocating for is socialism. The labor laws etc are not a govt takeover of the individual finances of a business. What you are doing is completely different.

Your definition of greed is paying employees less than employers makes the employees greedy. You nor the govt knows how margins should be working in businesses.

most people don't know what the companies they shop at are doing.

So? Is it inherently harming Americans?

Very few people would have any knowledge of that. Walmart crushes every union that tries to form at their stores.

Which is illegal. Sue them. Employees have the right to form a union and negotiate. Employers have the right to advocate against a union as well. There are laws specifically designed to prevent retaliation for forming a union. If people don’t use laws that already exist why do we need for laws?

Most people don't know that either. Pretending that consumers can control corporations actions is a complete joke. There are near constant examples of companies doing shitty things.

Corporations do what they do within the law. What they do in other countries do in their jurisdiction is no concern to me. If you have a problem with it you’re welcome to stop buying from them.

The US has no business regulating what a country can do in another country. It violates their sovereignty.

No one can keep track of all of them. And even if they could, they would quickly find that there are very few companies they can shop at.

You think Americans are stupid don’t you? If we are satisfied with the product, we will buy it. Now if there’s injustice happening in the US that’s a problem that needs to be resolved. But what you said is either in the jurisdiction of another nation or already in violation of existing laws.

Competition already exists. 8 dollars is still more than 7.25. If you can’t get a job higher than that then you need to do something lol. Not all corporations pay as little as possible in case you didn’t know. Not all corporations are greedy as I’ve tried to tell you countless times. My own dad pays people 2 dollars an hour above minimum wage to be a cashiers at his convenience store. Plus in believing what you’re believing, competition doesn’t exist . Do you deny economics?