Rent Controls

Author: Trent0405
Bernie
Regulation
Rent Control

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#31
Nemiroff
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@Trent0405
What is housing inefficiency?
Housing inefficiency are all the housing problems these experts found with rent control. 

But when it comes to the workforce, it had negative effects
In the long term yes, but rent controls were put in place to deal with the immediate housing shortage for low wage workers. If, without rent control, these workers get priced farther and farther from the heart of the city that needs them, what would happen to the economy of the city? 
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#32
Trent0405
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@Nemiroff
Housing inefficiency are all the housing problems these experts found with rent control. 
okay.

In the long term yes, but rent controls were put in place to deal with the immediate housing shortage for low wage workers. If, without rent control, these workers get priced farther and farther from the heart of the city that needs them, what would happen to the economy of the city? 
But it wasn't the long term, my source looked at the first 4 months of the policies implementation. So even right after implementation, it had significant negative impacts on the labour force. So low wage workers might just be better off without rent control.
#33
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But it wasn't the long term, my source looked at the first 4 months of the policies implementation. So even right after implementation, it had significant negative impacts on the labour force.
"Significant negative effect" relative to past numbers. This assumes there is no initial problem which has its own consequences. How would the situation unfold if no rent controls are implemented? in your opinion.

Furthermore, did any of the many other big cities experience this? Or is this a freak exception?
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#34
Trent0405
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Furthermore, did any of the many other big cities experience this? Or is this a freak exception?
It was in San Diego.

"Significant negative effect" relative to past numbers. This assumes there is no initial problem which has its own consequences.
I'm confused here, of course we will compare it to past numbers to see the state of the city before and after the policy. What is the "initial problem" in this instance?

How would the situation unfold if no rent controls are implemented? in your opinion.
We would have a more labourers employed and working according to my source.
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#35
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Furthermore, did any of the many other big cities experience this? Or is this a freak exception?
I misread this. I don't think it was an exception seeing how the overall attitude is incredibly negative amongst economists, and I think there is a reason for that.
#36
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Trent0405: Okay, it appears that rent controls have a negative impact on investment in housing. This is because investing becomes less viable and lucrative, leading to reduction in housing quality, supply, and price. This lack of investment resulted in 30,000 lost apartments in New York every year over 11 years in New york as a result of rent controls according to William Tucker. 
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Ok. I finally have a little time on my hands, and I’ll maybe slowly slide into the discussion  again. 

I couldn’t quite understand the reason for the link regarding the 30,000 apartments lost in New York every year, or the credentials of a man called ‘William Tucker’. However, what I did observe was that.....’Although hard statistics on abandonments are not available, William Tucker estimates that about 30,000 New York apartments were abandoned annually from 1972 to 1982’. 
So where does this 30,000 figure come from? Additionally, and let’s suspend disbelief and assume his estimations are accurate, this still doesn’t prove that ‘abandonments’ are the result of rent controls. A myriad of other factors might be at play here. 

Secondly, William Tucker’s credentials can speak for themselves. ‘Mr. Tucker’s clients have included estate and trust beneficiaries, personal representatives, trustees, financial institutions, shareholders, partnerships, corporations, real estate developers and investors, real estate brokers, and other business entities’. 
I couldn’t make up a more vested interest than this one. But anyway.....

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Trent0405: This is just me spitballing, but if rent controls lower quality and affordability in the long term, then wouldn’t the problem still be present and worsened ultimately?    If the problem can be remedied for a brief moment, but the aftermath worsens the situation then I see little utility in rent controls.......
I am unsure, it seems like government regulation that restricts housing supply is a big factor in increasing housing prices, but federal housing programs have also found success. A pure laissez faire solution will most likely be unsuccessful. Maybe kickback regulation but still maintain some government intervention.
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Rent controls have to be moulded and designed for a given environment, to meet the needs and demands of a specific environment. It certainly can’t be a case of one size fits all, and continuous tweaking and evolving should take place. 

At least, contrary to many economists, you’re not entirely sure whether applying the free market system to the rental sector would work. But in actual reality, economists are also in favour of tax benefits, incentives and subsidies for the real estate sector, which really doesn’t sound like the magical ‘laissez faire, free market’ solution. For them it’s a case of increased deregulation of prices while also lobbying for increased subsidies and tax incentives for owners. 
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Trent0405: But it is actually harming the workforce from the research I’ve found. In SanDiego rent controls resulted in an increase of unemployed people by 40.9% in just 4 months(Page 666). So rent controls are contributing to the problem, not solving it.
Also, despite a very very small increase in the number of employed people, this is most likely because of an increase in population.
 Also, it was 30,000 per year, so it was actually 330,000‬ lost apartments lost as a result of rent control.
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Its important you research references more, including the factual reasons why specific ups and downs take place, instead of making false correlations.
Read the Postwar prelude 1945-1949 (page 11)....From the book ‘The 1950s’.

As stated before, a myriad of other factors take place simultaneously—in this particular case, the end of a war, and the industrial and economic ramifications of post-war in a particular region (San Diego).

23 days later

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#38
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I acknowledge that much of my data relies on correlational data and estimates, but this is merely because isolating for specific variables(rent control in this case) is very difficult. As a result, correlational data is to be relied upon.

I couldn’t quite understand the reason for the link regarding the 30,000 apartments lost in New York every year, or the credentials of a man called ‘William Tucker’. However, what I did observe was that.....’Although hard statistics on abandonments are not available, William Tucker estimates that about 30,000 New York apartments were abandoned annually from 1972 to 1982’. 
So where does this 30,000 figure come from? Additionally, and let’s suspend disbelief and assume his estimations are accurate, this still doesn’t prove that ‘abandonments’ are the result of rent controls. A myriad of other factors might be at play here. 

Estimates from an economist are better than nothing). Also, that link was there to show the outcomes of the rent control policies passed in NY, although the true numbers aren't known, I have previously linked to sources demonstrating rent controls negative impact on housings supply, quality, and affordability.

Rent controls have to be moulded and designed for a given environment, to meet the needs and demands of a specific environment. It certainly can’t be a case of one size fits all, and continuous tweaking and evolving should take place. 
Okay, I agree, it just seems like almost every time these policies are tried they have a net negative impact on the area. Sure these policies can maybe work with tweaking, but that's not the discussion at hand, if a policy fails continuously and economists tweaking them still leads to negative outcomes, I would abstain from implementing them all together.

At least, contrary to many economists, you’re not entirely sure whether applying the free market system to the rental sector would work. But in actual reality, economists are also in favour of tax benefits, incentives and subsidies for the real estate sector, which really doesn’t sound like the magical ‘laissez faire, free market’ solution. For them it’s a case of increased deregulation of prices while also lobbying for increased subsidies and tax incentives for owners. 
I think a blind trust in the free market is silly, I do not support a complete free market in housing.