Is the Bible uncomfortable for Christians?

Author: RoderickSpode

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@zedvictor4
It depends entirely upon what one does with it.
 

Metaphorically speaking:

If one throws it upon the fire it will be warming and comforting for a while.

But if one hits oneself about the head with it, it soon becomes very uncomfortable.
Another analogy.

Driving along the free-way, and some maniac zooms by at 110 miles an hour, and you see the red lights of a hp zooming after him. Comforting feeling.

Driving along the free-way after a few drinks at a party, and you see the red lights of an hp behind you. Uncomfortable feeling.
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Maybe so, but I think it has less to do with Biblical laws (whether they are embarrassed by them or not) and more to do with the inherent nature of the God described in the bible, especially the Old Testament.
In Hosea 13:4, 9, 16, God destroys the pregnant woman and foetuses of those that do not worship him. In Isaiah 13:9–16, Babies are slaughtered and wives raped. In Judges 18:1–28 god approves the massacre of a peaceful people so one of his tribes could have a place to live. In Judges 11:30–39, a daughter is burned as an acceptable sacrifice to God. In Psalm 137:8–9, God wants you to be happy to dash babies against rocks, and the list goes on and on.......
The depiction of God’s character in the Old Testament is sufficient enough to accuse him of tyrannical behaviour, without having to consider his laws and orders.
These all pretty much have to do with God's laws anyway.

But these are just the usual verses spun into a Mad Magazine version of scripture. Verses with quotes that are attributed to God, but made by someone else, assuming God overlooks man's weaknesses and condoning illegal activity, that God commanded the
massacre of innocent people, etc.



On a first hand, and for reasons beyond my knowledge, you fail to identify the dynamics at play in your own topic, and then simply brush off my points by using off handed remarks verging on the ad hominem. 
My post isn’t worth responding to if you really have nothing to respond to it with. 
I've responded to your posts before only to shortly thereafter see a line through your user name, thus ending the conversation.
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@EtrnlVw
I disagree almost entirely with your post #5 because it argues that because of the antiquity of the OT, it is no longer relevant to our modern culture and religious practices. By that same argument, I might argue that equally, the Sermon on the Mount is also antiquated. It was, after all, offered two thousand years ago.

However, in my experience, the SoM is so relevant now, by adherence to its precepts, every social, cultural ill we suffer today would be solved outright, with no other interfering choices marring the near perfection our culture would experience. For example, as a political platform, the SoM is hard to beat. You will note that there is a building, point upon point. Who has given us a better standard? Plato? Ceasar? Alexander? Washington? Marx? 
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@RoderickSpode

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RoderickSpode: These all pretty much have to do with God's laws anyway.
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Now you’ve muddled up the concept of law with the notion of a historical account or story. You’ re essentially taking a back foot by suggesting that, ultimately, all these things can be reduced to ‘God’s laws anyway‘. But unfortunately, you don’t get to systematically reduce every story or historical account, derive a series of laws from them, and then make the claim that the story is pretty much the law and the law is the story.
A story can inform you of many more things like social and cultural norms, the character types, the narrative point of view, etc...information difficultly obtained by just laws and orders.
My entire argument was, whether correct or incorrect, this supposed ‘embarrassment’ you identified in Christians was more to do with the information gleaned from these stories and historical events and less to do with the nature of the laws themselves. That said, I never discounted a possibility of both actions taking place simultaneously.

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RoderickSpode: But these are just the usual verses spun into a Mad Magazine version of scripture.
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Which is why I referenced the chapters and verses so they can speak for themselves, without the need for you to resort to red herring tactics. The reputation of ‘Mad Magazine’ and its equivalent has nothing to do with the argument, and does nothing to weaken my position. 

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RoderickSpode: Verses with quotes that are attributed to God, but made by someone else, assuming God overlooks man's weaknesses and condoning illegal activity, that God commanded the 
massacre of innocent people, etc.
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Ok. Now you’re making things much harder for Christians. What exactly is the method of choice Christians use to assess whether a verse is attributable to God or not? Is it the method..... ‘whenever a verse says something like ....’and God said’...., or is it the systematic cherry picking process, whereby a verse, if it matches well with their current view of morality and social norms, is directly attributable to God, and the verses that don’t fit this narrative are conveniently forgotten or omitted?
Of course I agree with you that in these particular instances, man set out to commit a terrible deed and merely used God as a scapegoat for their actions.
But without a reliable method to discriminate between the God parts vs the Man parts, it would be easy to make the claim that all parts are the mere product of Man, including laws and commandments. However, Christians largely defend these laws by postulating that these are directly handed by God to man, regardless of how archaic they might be. 
So I’m sorry, until you clearly outline that method, but you can’t just cherrypick your flavour of the week without compromising the other parts of the book.

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RoderickSpode: i’ve responded to your posts before only to shortly thereafter see a line through your user name, thus ending the conversation.
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I’ve equally responded to your posts before only to, shortly thereafter, see ad hominem galore. Not the hallmark of good debate and sportsmanship. 
Maybe your ad hominem is due to the fact that I only signed up on this excellent forum a couple days ago, and only have a few posts to my name (Namely, Marko, because Marco is my real name but all too common), while you have, let’s see, a whopping 572 (0 debates). Touche

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@RoderickSpode
Yep.
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@Marko

Now you’ve muddled up the concept of law with the notion of a historical account or story. You’ re essentially taking a back foot by suggesting that, ultimately, all these things can be reduced to ‘God’s laws anyway‘. But unfortunately, you don’t get to systematically reduce every story or historical account, derive a series of laws from them, and then make the claim that the story is pretty much the law and the law is the story.
A story can inform you of many more things like social and cultural norms, the character types, the narrative point of view, etc...information difficultly obtained by just laws and orders.
My entire argument was, whether correct or incorrect, this supposed ‘embarrassment’ you identified in Christians was more to do with the information gleaned from these stories and historical events and less to do with the nature of the laws themselves. That said, I never discounted a possibility of both actions taking place simultaneously.

Maybe if I said commands instead of laws there might have been less confusion. I understand that you wouldn't have any problem with Thou Shalt Not Steal, Kill, etc. Most allegations it would seem involve God giving a command, which is law.


Which is why I referenced the chapters and verses so they can speak for themselves, without the need for you to resort to red herring tactics. The reputation of ‘Mad Magazine’ and its equivalent has nothing to do with the argument, and does nothing to weaken my position. 
And I admit, I was wrong. One of the verses you gave was not command related. It was Psalm 137:8-9 where you stated God wants you to be happy to dash babies against rocks. But it's not exceptional as far as being an example of a Mad Magazine version of scripture. You're interpreting the verse in parody format similar to what Mad Magazine does with movies. You're basically satirizing the scriptures. And it's not even in refusing to acknowledge Hebrew translations (a very common theme among a few here). In plain King's English you're making a false claim. The statement is made by a psalmist who is expressing their pain due to Babylonian
captivity, and seeing Israelite children dashed against rocks. It does not say anything about God wanting an Israelite to be happy about seeing a child dashed against a rock. In contemporary war, soldiers know civilians may, or probably will be killed on the enemy side. There's no military instruction, probably not anywhere in the world (I hope) that would command, or even encourage, being happy seeing anyone killed. And you've done this with rest of your scriptural references.

So while the scriptures may speak for themselves, we still need the research to properly understand them. Think of Sam Kinnisson. In his stand-up routine, he would take an actual phrase right out of the Bible that in contemporary terminology would be a sexual innuendo. So while one can say "It says it right there in the Bible", it can't be used anymore than in a joke in a comedy routine.



Ok. Now you’re making things much harder for Christians. What exactly is the method of choice Christians use to assess whether a verse is attributable to God or not? Is it the method..... ‘whenever a verse says something like ....’and God said’...., or is it the systematic cherry picking process, whereby a verse, if it matches well with their current view of morality and social norms, is directly attributable to God, and

the verses that don’t fit this narrative are conveniently forgotten or omitted?
Of course I agree with you that in these particular instances, man set out to commit a terrible deed and merely used God as a scapegoat for their actions.
But without a reliable method to discriminate between the God parts vs the Man parts, it would be easy to make the claim that all parts are the mere product of Man, including laws and commandments. However, Christians largely defend these laws by postulating that these are directly handed by God to man, regardless of how archaic they might be. 
So I’m sorry, until you clearly outline that method, but you can’t just cherrypick your flavour of the week without compromising the other parts of the book.
Let's just take the verse you gave about dashing children against rocks.


Psalm 137:8-9 New International Version (NIV)
8 Daughter Babylon, doomed to destruction,
    happy is the one who repays you
    according to what you have done to us.
9 Happy is the one who seizes your infants
    and dashes them against the rocks.

Who's conveying this message?

I’ve equally responded to your posts before only to, shortly thereafter, see ad hominem galore. Not the hallmark of good debate and sportsmanship. 
Maybe your ad hominem is due to the fact that I only signed up on this excellent forum a couple days ago, and only have a few posts to my name (Namely, Marko, because Marco is my real name but all too common),
Ah! My mistake then. I honestly thought you were someone else. I didn't realize that you just recently signed up. However, apparently we couldn't have had any conversations before since that's the case. At least not here. Maybe you are jumping to conclusions concerning my ad hominems galore?


while you have, let’s see, a whopping 572 (0 debates). Touche

Would this be ad hominem retribution/touche for conversations we apparently never had?

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@n8nrgmi
if you take the bible at face value, i dont know how a sane person wouldn't be uncomfortable by the bible.
I agree. But this will not stop the apologists scrapping together irrelevant biblical verses to concoct excuses for this maniac, I can assure you.


it looks like God tortures people in fire for eternity if they aren't good enough or christian. isnt this disturbing?
It is disturbing considering we are forever being told " your father loves you">

“For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.”  John 3:16



God relentlessly killing children and relatively innocent people in the old testament. ie noah's flood, the spirit that killed the first born if you didn't smear blood etc.only brainwashed people can find these things not troublesome.

Of course they are troublesome and embarrassing for the apologist. But you'd never know.  When apologist are confronted with such biblical barbarity concerning their god don't expect them to agree with you in the slightest that god is a violent being  prone to extremely violent outbursts fit of a schizophrenic egotist