Science Fiction And The Bible

Author: ethang5
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#31
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@zedvictor4
@RoderickSpode
Gen 1:2 - And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.


In a recent news release from the University of Colorado Boulder, researchers claimed to have found evidence suggesting the earth was once a “water world.” They were working in the Panorama district in Northwestern Australia’s outback and had been on the hunt for exposed “ancient” oceanic crust. An outcrop of supposedly 3.2-billion-year-old oceanic crust occurs in this area and was the focus of the research.

Modern seawater has an isotope ratio of 18O to 16O, which generally has slightly more 16O, and it is presumed that this is due to continental clay-rich soils being able to take up more 18O from the oceans. When they collected, examined, and performed analyses from the Panorama district’s outcrop’s rock samples, they discovered that the 18O isotope ratio was a tiny bit higher in 18O. The researchers concluded that this small swing in isotopic ratios was due to the absence of continents. In other words, they believed that this study showed the earth of 3.2 billion years ago was completely covered by water.

I feel another laughing point of the skeptic about to drown. Oops!
#32
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@ethang5
3.2 billion years ago was about 3.2 billion years before mankind came up with the Christian god concept.

The evolutionary development of our planet would have been how it occurred....No god required.
#33
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@ethang5
Nonetheless:
At least you're not one of these U.S. Christian fundamentalists who think that the beardy guy threw it all together 6000 years ago.
Credit where credit's due as they say.

And:
With reference to the truism.... I cannot prove that there was no external influence in the development of the sphere. (neither can you prove otherwise). Though an external influence would not require the human necessity for pointy buildings and all that singing, dancing and preaching on Sunday mornings, or whenever you might indulge.

And come to think of it....Where is the boundary that denotes external, in terms of both Time and Space.
#34
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@RoderickSpode
Most:
Well, given the nature of how human based data was and is accumulated, I would have to agree with you and say that "most" was being somewhat generous.

And the Christ tale is supposedly based on events that occurred approximately 2000 years ago... And prior to that was the gathering of data from other civilisations such as the Egyptians, Greek and Roman etc.... Which in one example came together as the Christian creation hypothesis

To be quite frank, it's quite silly to try and ignore the fact that a lot went on prior to and separate from Christianity.

And the who discovered America argument is completely irrelevant. and also very silly.

And "new" was just reasonably respecting  ongoing scholarly and scientific understanding and progress.

And plagiarism might be illegal by today's standards, but I'm pretty sure that it wasn't back in the day.
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#35
ethang5
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@RoderickSpode
3.2 billion years ago was about 3.2 billion years before mankind came up with the Christian god concept.
And yet, 6,000+ years ago, the bible already knew what science is just now discovering.

...darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

The evolutionary development of our planet would have been how it occurred....No god required.
The topic is that God knew, not that godidit jasper. Stay focused.

So while you try to run away from the verses showing that the bible knew what science is only just now discovering, the verses remain.

Here are a few facts on which the bible confirms science....

*The Earth has more than enough water to cover every peak.
*The first plants did not have chlorophyll and did not need sunlight.
*The early Earth was covered in water.
*It did not rain on Earth for a long time after the atmosphere developed.
*There was only one continent when land first formed.
*Life first formed in the oceans.
*There is huge amounts of water inside the Earth.

Can the people advancing the claim that Christianity "borrowed" these ideas, show any of these ideas in pre-biblical stories?

When science discovers, for example, that the Earth has water in the mantle, do these people call that plagiarism? Is the fact that plants first grew without sunlight plagiarism when science says so? The bible said it first.

I bet you jasper thinks its plagiarism ONLY in the case of the bible. Go figure.
#36
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@ethang5
Looks like you nailed it!


3.2 billion years ago was about 3.2 billion years before mankind came up with the Christian god concept.

Nothing about the new scientific discovery of course.

#37
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@zedvictor4
3.2 billion years ago was about 3.2 billion years before mankind came up with the Christian god concept.

How is that even remotely relevant Mr. Conditioned thinker? God exists independent of mans concepts. As man comes to exist in creation man attempts to express that which he observes. Man receives insights on the inner conscious planes according to that which man is able to operate in. 

The evolutionary development of our planet would have been how it occurred....

Read the underlined....intelligent processes that are occurring.

No god required.

Lol yes, because only a genius would assume that processes can occur all by themselves. Production takes place without any intelligent agent involved. Now that's a miracle, I didn't know you were into that kind of thing...




#38
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@zedvictor4
 
With reference to the truism.... I cannot prove that there was no external influence in the development of the sphere. (neither can you prove otherwise). Though an external influence would not require the human necessity for pointy buildings and all that singing, dancing and preaching on Sunday mornings, or whenever you might indulge.
What is your issue with pointy buildings, singing, and dancing?

Are you appalled by European castles? Are you against night clubs?
#39
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@zedvictor4
Most:
Well, given the nature of how human based data was and is accumulated, I would have to agree with you and say that "most" was being somewhat generous. 

I don't think it was being generous at all. I would say it's a lot more plausible than saying every single god concept was copied from another ancient civ.

Is this what you're implying?


And the Christ tale is supposedly based on events that occurred approximately 2000 years ago... And prior to that was the gathering of data from other civilisations such as the Egyptians, Greek and Roman etc.... Which in one example came together as the Christian creation hypothesis.

But as I stated, the topic of the thread is about the bible in it's entirety. So part of the general practice of gathering of data was done by ancient Israelites.


To be quite frank, it's quite silly to try and ignore the fact that a lot went on prior to and separate from Christianity.
I'm not ignoring anything. You are stating an absolute fact. The bible itself speaks of preceding events that lead into the development of the Christian religion. And...refers to, in both old and new testament, other god concepts and religions.


And the who discovered America argument is completely irrelevant. and also very silly.
Well then, I may have misunderstood you. (And welcome to the club by the way.)

My impression was that you were referring to other religions of the world not accepting the biblical creation account. Was that what you were referring to, or something else?


And plagiarism might be illegal by today's standards, but I'm pretty sure that it wasn't back in the day.
It's the implication in conjunction with today's standards. The implication itself should follow up with ample evidence. Wouldn't you agree?
#40
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@EtrnlVw
A god might exist independent of man's concepts....You cannot prove otherwise....You simply assume that you are correct.
#41
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@RoderickSpode
Hey. Churches, castles etc. are fantastic architecture and a testament to the skill of the stonemason.

And no one suggested that there was anything wrong with a bit of singing and dancing....As you well know, Mr out of context.


#42
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@zedvictor4
Hey. Churches, castles etc. are fantastic architecture and a testament to the skill of the stonemason.

And no one suggested that there was anything wrong with a bit of singing and dancing....As you well know, Mr out of context.
I think that's a bit obvious for me to be out of context.

I'm guessing you're implying that if there is an external influence in our existence, the external influence would not take any notice of Christians congregating in a building, singing and dancing.

It's obviously not pointy buildings, singing, and dancing you have a problem with. It's the idea of Christians doing it in gatherings.

Is this about right (assuming there would be some re-wording of my statement)?
#43
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@zedvictor4
A god might exist independent of man's concepts....

Yes, God is an objective Reality, but it is the nature of God that eludes the immediate physical sense perception (once you grasp what I'm saying here we can move forward). Glad to see you may be open-minded about it though. Now all we need to do is get you to be open to discussing content rather than just talking over people with your personal opinions.

You cannot prove otherwise....

How many times do we need to have this talk? I already admitted I cannot prove God to YOU, but God is certainly proven to myself. And I explained that in your topic. So what I can do, is articulate the truth about God and how spirituality operates. 

You simply assume that you are correct.

I don't assume anything, you keep asserting that but there are reasons and evidence for my beliefs. I don't need assumptions. You won't talk or debate about these reasons and evidence but they are there.

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#44
ethang5
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Zed is terrified of finding out you are right Etrnl.

Hey Z-man, Etrnl is saying, even if you feel he is wrong and you are right, what harm is there in exploring concepts? Is this not a discussion board?

If your response is the equivalent of sticking your fingers in your ears and repeating "there is no God", why are you here at all?
#45
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@RoderickSpode
UFOs (in the purest sense) are no longer science fiction.

They were never "science fiction" in the first place. UFO's have always been just objects in the sky that are  "unidentified". People have been witnessing them for millennia. They are also depicted in many medieval works of art;  Crivelli (the Annunciation) & De Gelder's (Baptism of Christ) work leaps to mind. 

That said, there are interesting passages in the scriptures that speak of some kind of craft acceding and descending to and from the sky which were certainly identified by the ancients. Indeed they  described these craft in the best terms that they could i.e. "a chariot".

Compare that description to the plains Indians of the North American calling the steam train the "iron horse" then we can begin to get an better understanding of what the ancients may have been trying to describe.

I know what a TV is but I cannot explain how pictures  can be broken down into invisible waves and transported from one place to another while remaining in the same place.

Were these ancient craft "chariots" of the gods? Were the gods simply intelligent beings from another place " up there"? The circumstantial evidence for both being possible , to my mind,  piles up year after year.

But don't expect a delusional theist to agree with any of these theories/possibilities. Because like I have said many times before, there is no cure for blinkered and ignorant stupidity.
#46
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@Stephen
I understand what you're saying. I just hope you understand that on an internet forum it can be difficult to post in such a way that everyone will always understand what you're saying. However being that I just told you I understand what you're saying, maybe you never have this problem.

I knew my statement might cause a problem, but I decided to post what I wanted to say, let it ride, and explain it later if needed.

One of the problems with the term unidentified flaying objects ("flaying" is how Terry Jones would pronounce it), is that I don't think there's a clear cut definition. For instance, if someone sees a light  hovering in the sky, if we consider light an object, it might be an unidentified object in the sense that they don't know what it is. However, they do know it's a light. So in that sense, it's not unidentified. They just don't know where the light is originating from. If a prankster spray paints a seagull green, and it's still able to fly, an observer might wonder what it is. Since they've never seen a green bird of that size and shape, it's an unidentified flying object. But, they may know that it's a flying animal, or know it's a bird.


What I meant by saying it's not science fiction anymore, is that now we have some degree of disclosure. And what I meant by in the purest sense, I'm referring to 2 extremes. One extreme is the idea that the government is entertaining aliens at military bases, aliens are capturing humans for experiments, and even peeking through people's windows. The other extreme is confessions from pilots seeing objects making seemingly impossible maneuvers. And to even more of an extreme, an organization that is just trying to find out if there's even intelligent life out there.



#47
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I like the concept of alternate deminsions, its very helpful to know that when we have feelings and thoughts that arent ours, that we know a spirit is trying to influence us. And as God said, he clothes the heavens in darkness by his discretion.
#48
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@Melcharaz
 when we have feelings and thoughts that arent ours,

Eh?
I believe all the thoughts I have are my thoughts as are all my feelings. But from where they come from is at times  puzzling


 he clothes the heavens in darkness by his discretion.

Well at the moment, the sky is bright and not cloaked in darkness and I doubt this has anything to do with anyone's "discretion". No, this has to do with the rotation of the earth .
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#49
ethang5
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@Melcharaz
Lol!

Ol' Steve has a little problem understanding figures of speech Melcharaz. Use simple English and you'll be fine with him.
#50
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Im not compromising the bible for a fool. But basically, spirits affect our thoughts and God made universe dark for a reason.


#51
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@Melcharaz
Im not compromising the bible for a fool. But basically, spirits affect our thoughts and God made universe dark for a reason.



Of course, to anyone with a sane, reasoned mind will view this as signs of delusion.

* Anyone who takes head of the Bible would be a fool.

* "Spirits affecting our thoughts" and voices in one's head are definitely symptoms of delusion.
* "God made universe dark for a reason"......wow; definitely something more serious going on there.
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#52
ethang5
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@Willows
...definitely something more serious going on there.
Like mental illness in the form of compulsion?
#53
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@ethang5
Did you know that concepts made popular in science fiction were first in the bible?
The Bible has some of the best fiction. 😉
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#54
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@SkepticalOne
I would agree, but the fictional little stories in the gospels are called parables, not fiction. The bible has the best literature of any genre in the world, and a glance at it's performance throughout history verifies that.

But some people miss the wisdom and beauty of the message by getting stuck on the talking snake. Like an uneducated dweeb who comes away from a classic like "Animal Farm" with the gem, "It's not true, animals don't talk."

Everyone cannot have a high IQ, and we must take the dumb with the smart.
#55
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Let's recall [or conclude, if one has never read the Bible, and I mean the entire volume, page by page - I imagine that includes most of us, but I've read it in four languages cover to cover - that the construct of creation is told from a geocentric position, which is hardly reality. However, this is not because the whole matter is a fiction; it's because God, telling Moses how it went down, was not teaching an astronomy lesson. Those who are LDS out there, the Book of Abraham [from the Pearl of Great Price - for the benefit of others not familiar with the added scriptures we embrace, that book, the PGP, is the added writings of Abraham, and Moses. Anyway, God is not teaching either Moses or Abraham an astronomy lesson. For their purposes of understanding, because it was what they could observe in the night sky, the creation is described as geocentric in nature because the astronomy was not as important as their understanding why the creation was effected, and not necessarily an accurate how.
#56
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@ethang5
...definitely something more serious going on there.
Like mental illness in the form of compulsion?
Definitely yes. I think that perhaps Malchiraz has gone completely over the top and compulsion would probably come into it. I'm not someone who jumps to erroneous conclusions however (unlike one of the moderators here) so I would advise quizzing him a little more in depth before making a reasoned assessment.
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#57
ethang5
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@Willows
@T_Recks
...definitely something more serious going on there.
Like mental illness in the form of compulsion?

Definitely yes.
Then get help. You need medication. Your behavior of making sock puppets over and over to circumvent your ban is not sane or rational or civil. You are sick.

I'm not someone who jumps to erroneous conclusions however (unlike one of the moderators here)
Your unhinged behavior has proven the mods correct. You are a troll. You are obsessed. You do suffer from compulsion.

This is not a morality issue. You aren't evil, you're just ill. I know you see this.

Tell you what. If you get treatment, I myself will petition Ragnar in your favor. Do it for yourself, you are losing grip of your sanity. Even the moron hari didn't do what you're doing.

Please get help.

250 days later

#58
Stephen
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@ethang5
That bible book thing you got. 
Its. Well it's brilliant FULL STOP
We know Deb. That's why no other book has even come close to what the Bible has done.

Some try to play it down, but when you look at the reality of what the bible has done, you have to admit there is something there.

 How? What has it done and how did it do it? 
#59
Deb-8-a-bull
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Well let's compare it. 

Bible.       V.           1975 encyclopedia brit 

Orrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.


 Four neo-geo's mags. ( including  the one with the top less African lady ) and a couple of dolly doctors.                    V.                      The Bible.  


Orrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr. 

A Google search.         V.        The Bible. 


Google makes god look silly. 
Imagine a kid turning to the bible before Google.  

But The bibles brilliant for its capture mechanisms. 

NO ONE BELIEVES IN A NON-BOOK DOING GOD DO THEY.  

It's only common sense that  xe9n or figgin zoltan scientology god / alien thing that the old sea dog made up.  
I mean meet. 
I said meet. 
He got L Ron to write some shlt down for him.    Then he left it behind.  

This is a big call.
Having a holy book has to be as good to your religion as being monotheistic.   
Would they work ? 

It's fuking group building material,  getting sucked in stuff. 
Because that's what it is all about . 

GETTING A GROUP UP AND RUNNING. 

Thus bringing into vision why the first Christians group makers  made Jesus king of jews and that part of the book is now our book to. 

Then deeeeeeeeeepppper . 
You can see the Muslims linking in. Making Jesus a profit. 

INSTAGROUP.

It's like when a big chunk of ya church group brakes of. 
Which brings us back to .  IT IS ALL ABOUT SEX. 
mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm groups. 
 

Good game.
Good game. 



 

 



#60
Stephen
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@Deb-8-a-bull
But The bibles brilliant for its capture mechanisms. 

What do you mean, deb "capture mechanisms"?