How Deluded Are Christians?

Author: Salixes

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#31
Seth
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@Mharman
What makes my opinions delusion
In your opinion a superman exists. delusion.
In your opinion everything that exists was created as is. delusion
In your opinion you are such a special part of the universe that you will live forever. delusion.
In your opinion you think the universe is 6000yrs old. delusion.
In your opinion you think there is a god up above. delusion.

I could go on but I think I have verified that your opinions are delusions.

#32
ethang5
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@Mharman
I could go on but I think I have verified that your opinions are delusions.
His "verification" is his simply saying your opinion I'd delusion.

He isn't even aware that the bible does not give an age of the earth, or that everything was created as is, or that Heaven is locate within the universe, but he "knows" there is no God.

Quick Mharman, get him to SAY you are a millionaire and be rich!

Lol. If these atheists know so much, how come they know so little?
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#33
Salixes
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@ethang5
He isn't even aware that the bible does not give an age of the earth, or that everything was created as is, or that Heaven is locate within the universe, but he "knows" there is no God.
The Bible does give the age of the earth as approximately 6000 years.

Which, like most of the stories in the Bible, is horribly wrong.

Of course there are some unscrupulous people who will misquote by trying to point out that the words "the earth is 6000 years old" are actually not printed in the Bible. And, of course if they have read enough of the Bible to know that, they will also know that, by deduction through ancestry leading up to the story of the Ark the Bible deduces that the earth is 6000 years old.

So, I thought I would let you into that piece of information since I am well aware that theists such as yourself are led to believe such deceptive, out of context nonsense by Church superiors.


#34
ethang5
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The Bible does give the age of the earth as approximately 6000 years.
It doesn't. That's just an urban myth ignorant atheists perpetuate. The bible doesn't even hint at an age of the Earth.

Which, like most of the stories in the Bible, is horribly wrong.
I would ask you to cite the story that's "horribly wrong", but we both know you're horribly wrong and cannot do so.

...by deduction through ancestry leading up to the story of the Ark the Bible deduces that the earth is 6000 years old.
Ah, so it isn't the bible saying the Earth is 6,000 years old, it's you "deducing" and then lying that it's the bible deducing it. OK.

...theists such as yourself are led to believe such deceptive, out of context nonsense by Church superiors.
And yet I just told you that the bible does not say that the Earth is 6,000 years old. The only one believing such deceptive, out of context nonsense is you.

D'oh.

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#35
Salixes
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@ethang5
And yet I just told you that the bible does not say that the Earth is 6,000 years old. The only one believing such deceptive, out of context nonsense is you.

D'oh.

Listen, I have to tell you this as others in this forum have done.
Your deliberate misquoting and deliberate misinterpretations of what others say have gotten way out of hand.

It is a very crude form of argument, to say the least.


#36
Mharman
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@Seth
I’d like to know why my spiritual beliefs are delusion. After all, they’re not linked to any mental disorder, and there are good arguments for creationism out there, and creationism is a belief that is very widespread and popular. But that’s not the biggest issue with your argument that my beliefs are delusion because they allegedly don’t align with reality. Thing about spiritual beliefs and opinions is that they’re subjective, like any other opinion. I’d like to then ask how a subjective statement can be called wrong.


#37
Seth
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@ethang5
His "verification" is his simply saying your opinion I'd delusion.
This would possibly make sense in English, I don't know.
He isn't even aware that the bible does not give an age of the earth,
I never mentioned the age of the Earth, I referenced the age of the universe, which is mentioned in the bible.
or that everything was created as is,
Apparently you haven't read the bible because that is exactly what it says.
or that Heaven is locate within the universe,
I honestly have no idea why you resort to bald faced lies in your posts. I never even implied such a claim.

but he "knows" there is no God.
That's a given.
Quick Mharman, get him to SAY you are a millionaire and be rich!
Does that behaviour still work in your school playgound?

Lol. If these atheists know so much, how come they know so little?
I know enough not to have to resort to lies when I post.

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#38
Salixes
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@Mharman
I’d like to know why my spiritual beliefs are delusion. After all, they’re not linked to any mental disorder, and there are good arguments for creationism out there, and creationism is a belief that is very widespread and popular. But that’s not the biggest issue with your argument that my beliefs are delusion because they allegedly don’t align with reality. Thing about spiritual beliefs and opinions is that they’re subjective, like any other opinion. I’d like to then ask how a subjective statement can be called wrong.


Perhaps I can illuminate and answer your question in a more precise, logical and reasoned way. I'm not having a go at you but just being the devil's advocate.

To start with:
delusion | di'liuz(e)n | noun an idiosyncratic belief or impression maintained despite being contradicted by reality or rational argument, typically as a symptom of mental disorder. (Oxford Dictionary)

 * Those who suffer delusions do not necessarily have a mental disorder, however, delusion is a symptom of a mental disorder.

 * If you study carefully, there is not one argument (let alone a good one) for creationism and there is not one piece of valid evidence to support such a belief. In fact, overwhelming properly researched evidence shows there was no creation at all.

* The ad populum fallacy that creationism is widespread and popular does not give the belief one bit of credibility whatsoever any more than the widespread and popular beliefs that there are witches, goblins or fairies.

 * The belief in God as the creator is an idiosyncratic belief or impression maintained despite being contradicted by reality or rational argument.
The point is that research shows that very few people who call themselves religious actually believe there is a God or an afterlife for that matter.
So, it is only those few who firmly believe there is a God (or any other supernatural phenomena) that can be rightly called deluded.

Most subjective statements are "wrong". For example: "You look ugly", or "blonds are dumb".

It's not so much an issue that religious belief is wrong or subjective.
It is the fact that those who do actually believe there is a God and that we were created are deluded.

You can cite as many academics, philosophers and famous people as you like who assert the presence of God or that we were created.
But those people are only taking a lend of you in order to advance their own agendas.
#39
ethang5
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@Salixes
@Seth
He isn't even aware that the bible does not give an age of the earth,

I never mentioned the age of the Earth, I referenced the age of the universe, which is mentioned in the bible.
No it isn't Cletus. I would ask you cite it, but we both know you cannot.

or that everything was created as is, 

Apparently you haven't read the bible because that is exactly what it says.
No. That is the position of people who get their information from atheist websites instead of reading the bible. Again, I would ask you to cite where the bible says everything was created as is but you and I know you cannot do so.

or that Heaven is located within the universe,

I honestly have no idea why you resort to bald faced lies in your posts. I never even implied such a claim. 
Seth, Post #31, this thead
In your opinion you are such a special part of the universe that you will live forever.

In his opinion, Christians live forever in Heaven, and if he is a part of the universe, then Heaven must be within the universe. Words mean things Cletus.

"In your opinion you think there is a god up above. delusion."

"Above" is a locus in space/time that can only exist within the universe, Einstein.

...he "knows" there is no God.

That's a given.
It must be given to you because you can't  achieve it through logical argumentation. Well there will be no charity cases with me Cletus. Nothing will be "given" to you. You will have to earn your claims, or they will get tossed out like all the other unsupported garbage.

Does that behaviour still work in your school playgound?
It works on your grade school logic.

I know enough not to have to resort to lies when I post.
Well Cletus, you used to anyway.

To the Gentle Reader:
Though an easy solution is to simply cite the passages in the bible that support their claims, neither Seth or Sal will do so because they cannot.

Like all militant atheists, they will project. Both have misquoted the bible, but Seth says I'm lying, and Ol Sal says I'm misquoting. But neither will ever post my lie or misquote.

-->@Salixes

Listen, I have to tell you this as others in this forum have done.
Others? You mean Stephen? Did you see the mods reply to the charge that I was misquoting?

Your deliberate misquoting and deliberate misinterpretations of what others say have gotten way out of hand.
Really? Then how come its you under sanction about posting and not me? Or do you think you can fool the mods by simply repeating a silly baseless charge over and over?

It is a very crude form of argument, to say the least.
Would you like me to re-post what moderation said about your "form of argument"?

No. I bet you don't.
#40
Seth
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@ethang5
Before I bother with a response to this meaningless rant, a few questions/observations.

Who is Cletus?
Are you including god belief in this "other unsupported garbage"?
Why do you lie and misquote and then falsely accuse others of that?.


#41
ethang5
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@Seth
Before I bother with a response to this meaningless rant, a few questions / observations.

Who is Cletus?
Do you have a mirror handy?

Are you including god belief in this "other unsupported garbage"?
You will tell me. Is your belief that there is no God, supported?

Why do you lie and misquote and then falsely accuse others of that?
When you post a lie or misquote, this will be more than just you trying to smear me by innuendo.

You must be young. Because only a noob would think silly stuff like that has never been tried.

You can't beat me by lying, or by insinuation Cletus. Accusations are like backsides, everyone has one. Cite a lie or misquote, or quit whining.

You don't know the bible or Christian doctrine well enough to be pontificating here. Atheist websites will make you look ignorant here.
#42
Seth
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@ethang5
You can't beat me by lying, or by insinuation Cletus. Accusations are like backsides, everyone has one. Cite a lie or misquote, or quit whining.
I've done that in several posts already, I have no interest in giving you even more information to lie about.

You don't know the bible or Christian doctrine well enough to be pontificating here. Atheist websites will make you look ignorant here.
You haven't a clue what I know about the bible, but I obviously know a lot more about being a decent human being than you do. I've never been to an atheist website perhaps you could give me a list of your favourites. Thanks.

You will tell me. Is your belief that there is no God, supported?
To which god do you refer? The god Zeus from the Greek pantheon of gods or the god Yahweh from tghe Canaanite pantheon of gods? Or perhaps another?
#43
ethang5
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@Seth
You can't beat me by lying, or by insinuation Cletus. Accusations are like backsides, everyone has one. Cite a lie or misquote, or quit whining.

I've done that in several posts already, 
Untrue. You haven't cited a single lie or misquote of mine. Though you keep buttaching about it.

You haven't a clue what I know about the bible,
Sure I do. I see your clueless posts full of ignorance about what the bible and Christian doctrine says.

but I obviously know a lot more about being a decent human being
You got me there. I'm not a PC liberal progressive snowflake. "Decent" human beings are those who troll religion boards though they claim to be atheists.

Are you including god belief in this "other unsupported garbage"?
Is your belief that there is no God, supported?

To which god do you refer? 
I'm not the one who referred to a God Cletus. You did. Were you unaware of which God you were referring to when you said this?

In your opinion you think there is a god up above. delusion.

Perhaps that lack of awareness is the root of your confusion.
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#44
Salixes
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@ethang5
He isn't even aware that the bible does not give an age of the earth,
You are clearly deluded and upset, once again.

Continually misquoting to make an erroneous point is not only contrary to the rules of this site but unconducive to intelligent dialogue.
#45
Seth
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@ethang5
Were you unaware of which God you were referring to when you said this?
I don't differentiate between unsupported god claims, I was asking you to which unsupported god you were referring.


#46
fauxlaw
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@Salixes
I have read your statements in every post in this string. I have yet to see one iota of evidence amid the continuous claim that people who believe in God are deluded. You offered percentages of people who do not attend church, who actually claim to not believe in God while claiming their religions do have such a belief, percentages of people who are apparently lower percentages than of people who, like yourself, disclaim God. I note not one single reference to any survey declaring these results; not that it would help, because surveys are, after all, merely data of opinions. I am a certified Six Sigma Black Belt. You cannot lecture me on the statistical accuracy of opinions in which the sample size is typically insufficient, the margin of error is too liberal, there is a skewed majority of sub-group sampling of people who agree with the agenda of the poll, there are too many questions, and the questions are biased in favor of a desired result. The plethora of surveys with these flaws are numerous. Cite yours, and I will show you their flaws.  

I note one video reference of a debate, which I watched, with Richard Dawkins from 2008 in which he declares, repeatedly, that believers in God are hallucinatory, but he merely makes the claim, without reference to any scholarly work to support the claim. To do so, in an alleged debate that is supposed to be, itself, a scholarly exercise, is, itself a hallucination.

Are you really telling us that all these claims rise to the level of evidence? You manage to define "delusion" from the OED. Go ahead, offer the definition of "hallucination" from the same source. But defining words, and then linking them to a claim is only evidence that you can research dictionaries. However, there is a major problem with dictionaries: While they define words, and indicate a proper spelling of same, not a single one of them, in any language, truly offers a description of the root of language by which we communicate. Any language. The root? Culture. Culture defines words in context; not the other way around. And without understand a culture, its language fails to translate to another fully or accurately. Actually, the OED [unabridged] comes closest, in English, to approaching the cultural root of the language by its exhaustive etymology, but even it falls short of fully defining its culture in the process. 

I digress. Statements made, claims made, of any nature, not just the relative belief in the existence of any god, and I note Dawkins referred to several, without back-up of repeatable and reproducible, peer-reviewed substantiation, is not evidence. Period. That there may be more people who hold your view of the non-existence of any god, than who do believe is utterly inconsequential. A majority of us once believed the earth was flat. A majority of us once believed the earth was the center of the universe. A majority of us once believed that the sun was the universal center. All those beliefs have been disproven by repeatable and reproducible evidence.

Offer some evidence, my friend, or ma gavte la nata.
#47
ethang5
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@Salixes
@Seth
@Salixes

Continually misquoting to make an erroneous point is not only contrary to the rules of this site but unconducive to intelligent dialogue.
Silly repetition will not save you. It didn't save you on DDO, and it won't save you here.

Would you like me to re-post what moderation said about you being "unconducive" to intelligent dialogue?

The only one deluded here is you.

@Seth

I don't differentiate between unsupported god claims, I was asking you to which unsupported god you were referring.
I referred to no God Cletus. You did.

Were you unaware of which God you were referring to when you said this?

In your opinion you think there is a god up above. delusion.
Were you deluded when you said that? Did you not know what god you were referring to?

Lol! 

...to which unsupported god..
Learn to read Cletus. I said you had an  unsupported claim, not an unsupported  god.

When you figure out what you meant, let me know.