Protestant Stupidity

Author: triangle.128k

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#1
triangle.128k
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"Communist-ruled Cuba Holds First Transgender Ceremony"

A great example demonstrating the flaws of Protestant Christianity. Western Christianity has been on a slow departure from holy truth and has descended into all kinds of lows. This is especially prevalent among the Protestants, who have a prideful notion of taking centuries of sacred tradition and biblical interpretation, among countless saints, into something any laymen can distort for their own purposes. As a result, you get a Church that simply blends in with the world. You don't get a Church that rejects the wrong-doings of modern society. Now, you get a Protestant Church holding "transgender ceremonies." The notion one can simply change their biological gender is a stupid one antithetical to Christian teaching.

The Orthodox Church in the east has remained true and unchanged for centuries. The religious life of the early Christians, medieval Christians, modern-day Christians, etc, has always been the same in the Orthodox Church. As Catholics and (even more so) Protestants fall into error, the Orthodox Church remains faithful and unchanged. 



#2
Discipulus_Didicit
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@triangle.128k
Now, you get a Protestant Church holding "transgender ceremonies."

What is a transgender ceremony?
#3
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Topically relevant article.


#4
drafterman
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@triangle.128k
This is especially prevalent among the Protestants, who have a prideful notion of taking centuries of sacred tradition and biblical interpretation, among countless saints, into something any laymen can distort for their own purposes
How dare they! Don't they know that only the Church officials are allowed to distort centuries of sacred tradition and biblical interpretation for their own purposes?! Prideful indeed!

#5
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@triangle.128k
I think that what you are also saying is, the Orthodox Church in the east is very backward thinking.

Hasn't it noticed that things have changed a tad since medieval times.
#6
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@zedvictor4
Or maybe that the world has reached a point of insanity wheras self declaration of identity is seen as proof of identity.

For a man or a woman to claim gender diasphora or that they are in fact a member of the opposite sex is a rejection of reality in favor of what one wishes to be true. 

This is idolatry, and idolatry has no place in The Holy Churches of God.

#7
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@Mopac
One generation thinks the next one is insane. Sounds pretty typical to me.

And viewing and judging the uncertainty of others from the safety of ones own certainty is easy.

And church is idolatry.
#8
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@zedvictor4
You have no argument, you are talking nonsense.

#9
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The societal embrace of arbitrariness, self will, and making delusion equal with reality naturally will lead to the destruction or enslavement of such a society.
#10
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When society destroys itself, people will unplug from their virtual reality and say, "Why is this happening? We did nothing wrong!"


Like Christians falsely self declared who show no works for it, who love to quote scriptures with grand boasts, being attracted to declarations of self righteousness, thinking such scriptures refer to them and their identity. Clouds without rain they are, and they will be judged alongside all the faithless and wicked as one and the same.

God is not mocked, and those who embrace lying vanities forsake their own salvation. Because they received not the love of The Truth, they will be cursed with strong delusion. They will say on the last day, "Lord, didn't we proclaim your name and give glory to you in all things?"

And they will be told, "Oh polluted hearts, unrepentant and full of haughtiness! The way of the righteous I know, but you have caused the nations to blaspheme me by your wicked deeds. Your life was lived in defiance of me, and the blood of the saints is on your hands! You declare the freedom you have in me, and used it for licentiousness! You traded your freedom to become slaves of sin. Depart from the congregation of the righteous, and take your seat in in the midst of those who have like you invoked my name in vain, and be counted among the idolaters, adulterers, and sorcerers, for you have no inheritance with me."

But God knows who amongst the heathen loved Him in Spirit and Truth. Those who in humility walked in righteousness among a crooked and perverse generation.

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#11
triangle.128k
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@drafterman
How dare they! Don't they know that only the Church officials are allowed to distort centuries of sacred tradition and biblical interpretation for their own purposes?! Prideful indeed!
This has not happened in the Orthodox Church. Prove to me otherwise. 
#12
oromagi
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@triangle.128k
This has not happened in the Orthodox Church. Prove to me otherwise. 


Adelphopoiesis, , literally "brother-making" is a ceremony practiced historically in Christian tradition to unite together two people of the same sex (normally men) in a church-recognized relationship analogous to siblinghood.

the Eastern Orthodox Church's own Book of Canon Law, the Pedalion, which, as reported by historian Franco Mormando, "acknowledges the frequently erotic nature of the relationship ritualized in the 'brotherhood by adoption' or 'wedbrotherhood' ceremony: in prohibiting the ceremony (in its chapter on marriage), the Pedalion states that wedbrotherhood 'merely affords matter for some persons to fulfill their carnal desires and to enjoy sensual pleasures, as countless examples of actual experience have shown at various times and in various places...'"

Boswell's "Same Sex Unions in Pre-Modern Europe" finds example of hundreds of such Orthodox marriages in the 19th century,  at least some of which seem explicitly romantic in nature.

#13
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@triangle.128k
Given that no god exists, all churches of any form or denomination are little more than groups of people distorting superstitions for their own gain.
#14
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@triangle.128k
A great example demonstrating the flaws of Protestant Christianity.
In other words you just want to make a public statement that you are bigoted and hateful towards others.

Why don't you simply muster up the guts to actually come out and say it rather than make sly, cryptic, veiled references?
#15
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@oromagi
Adelphopoiesis in no way is like marriage.

The church in no way condones same sex relations of the type you are implying.


And certainly, closer examination of the article you referenced concerning the trans man joining the church does not imply that the church condones sex changes.
#16
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What gain does the church gain through distorting superstitions? This is a false accusation.

The church does what it does out of a desire to enlighten the world, the church is not a political entity. It does not seek secular authority.


The Ultimate Reality exists, and no amount of denial changes this fact. 




#17
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Fuck, it has even reached CUBA, 

I swear another nazi Germany is going to happen, we live in the most degrading society since the fall of the Roman Empire

#18
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Nevertheless, this is a shameless plug for Orthodox Christianity, Who cares what church your part of
#19
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@Dr.Franklin

To denominationalists, it doesn't matter as much what church you go to because none of them are really the church.


Don't like the pastor here? Go to the church next door.

Oh, this church jad a really good pastor, but now he's gone and the new pastor is lousy? Go to the church next door.

The Orthodox Church is not like these denominational churches. Are there less than ideal priests? Sure, but the priests are not given as much importance as they are in these other churches. The common work of the church compensates, and God's grace still shines through.

It does matter though, because what The Orthodox Church does is preserve the faith. That is the mission of every bishop, to keep the faith incorrupt. The way the church is structured, not even a few renegade bishops can corrupt the church. The church is self correcting.

Why should someone be shamed for witnessing to the original church? This is the church that all Christianity came from. Why accept an imitation? Why settle for an incomplete church?

I have no shame to declare thst The Orthodox Catholic Church is the definitive Christian Church, and it teaches enlightened Christianity. True Christianity. I can not say this about many churches, which in my observation do not even know the God they claim to worship.

I am not saying there are no sincere Christians out there among the heterodox churches. How can I say the little old baptist man who spent his life helping those in need and loving everyone around him isn't a true Christian? How could I say that God wouldn't honor the Methodist woman who out of her love to God dedicates herself to caring for the elderly? How could I say that the presbytarian who looked after the homeless youth isn't doing God's work?

God bless all of these people, and may those who do these things in Christ's name have their reward in heaven. It is better to be one of these people than a scoundrel who goes to the right church!

The Orthodox Catholic Church is the very church of the apostles, and it is the true church. May those who never knew thile true church in this life be reunited with it in the hereafter. God knows those who are his, and there is One Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church.



#20
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Adelphopoiesis in no way is like marriage.

Agreed.  Adelphopoiesis is in no way is like marriage except that

  • the (same sex) couple stand together before a priest
  • holding hands
  • the couple swears to live together and love one another for their entire lives
  • the priest asks for god's blessing
  • they kiss at end
Other than those few, sort of overlapping details, Adelphopoiesis is no way like a wedding ceremony.

The church in no way condones same sex relations of the type you are implying.
In fact, as I included above, St. Nicodemus' Pedalion explictly prohibits Adelphopoiesis because the ceremony "merely affords matter for some persons to fulfill their carnal desires and to enjoy sensual pleasures, as countless examples of actual experience have shown" 

Let's recall triangle.128k's claim:

Orthodoxers are smart because the Orthodox Church in the east has remained true and unchanged for centuries.

St. Nicodemus writes that in the late 1700's he was aware of "countless" same-sex couples using this ceremony "to fulfill their carnal desires," since he spent most of his life at the Monastery of Mt. Athos, the "actual experiences" he reports are likely fellow monks. Very unsurprisingly,  in some times and places in the the history of the Orthodox Church, monks and nuns were getting married to each other and having sex often enough that they had to make a rule forbidding it anymore.

I don't know anything about the Orthodox Church, but to this outsider it sounds an awful lot like St. Nicodemus's testimony refutes triangle.128k's claim that the church has remained true and unchanged for centuries. 

And certainly, closer examination of the article you referenced concerning the trans man joining the church does not imply that the church condones sex changes.
I agree that the article does not suggest church approval of sex change, but let's recall triangle.128k's claim- Protestants are stupid because they allow transgendered people to participate in ceremonies.  I provided one example of a transman participating in an Orthodox ceremony which seems perfectly equivalent to the acceptance found in Cuba.  If Protestants are stupid because of one far-away example of transgendered participation in a church ceremony, than Othodoxers must be  likewise stupid because we can also find an Orthodox  example of transgendered participation in a church ceremony. 

Let's agree that it would be silly for anybody to imply that some religion condones sex changes just because one church somewhere welcomed trans-people in, for once, never mind whether the religion is protestant or orthodox.
#21
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@oromagi
Whatever source you are drawing from is giving you bad information.

There is nothing sexual about the holy kiss, deacons do it at every liturgy, and it is a common greeting in many countries.

Monks and nuns do not get married. That is practically what defines a monastic.

This perverse interpretation you have can only come from unfamiliarity with our liturgical practices.


A transgender could not be a priest. Any bishop who would knowingly ordain a transgender priest would likely not last long as a bishop. All these articles have to do with transgenders becoming clergy.

We are not supposed to hate transgenders. However, it would be a lie for us to say that their belief is psychologically sound. The church allows sinners in, of course, who is perfect? Eventually, this transgender will have to come to terms with the fact that their delusion is a hindrance in their spiritual walk.


#22
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@oromagi
Have you ever even read the pedalion?

Probably not. 

You can find copies of it online, by all means, show me some primary sources rather than the work of some second rate scholar with an agenda.


I am certain that the deeper you look into this, the more you will find that you are going off bad information that is interpreted in a perverse way.
#23
Mopac
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Romans 16:16

1 Corinthians 16:20

2 Corinthians 13:12

1 Thessalonians 5:26



Scriptural basis for the holy kiss. 


Not a sexual thing.



#24
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--> @oromagi
Whatever source you are drawing from is giving you bad information.
I've linked to my sources.
There is nothing sexual about the holy kiss, deacons do it at every liturgy, and it is a common greeting in many countries.
Straw man. Nobody said there was.  I said that the Adelphopoiesis ceremony shares some details in common with a wedding ceremony including a kiss at the end, which you have confimed.
Monks and nuns do not get married. That is practically what defines a monastic.
Straw man.  Nobody said they do.  According to St. Nicodemus though, 300 years ago at St. Athos,  they would get adelphopoiesied and have sex "as countless examples of actual experience have shown"
This perverse interpretation you have can only come from unfamiliarity with our liturgical practices.
I couldn't care less about your liturgical practices. I am refuting triangle.128k's claim that all Protestants are stupid and all Orthodoxers are smart.
A transgender could not be a priest. Any bishop who would knowingly ordain a transgender priest would likely not last long as a bishop.
Straw man.  Nobody said otherwise.
We are not supposed to hate transgenders. However, it would be a lie for us to say that their belief is psychologically sound.
The church allows sinners in, of course, who is perfect? Eventually, this transgender will have to come to terms with the fact that their delusion is a hindrance in their spiritual walk.
This would seem to refute triangle.128k 's thesis although you seem unwilling to say so.  If transpeople are merely sinners like the rest of us, than what on what grounds does triangle.128k criticize Protestants for allowing sinners to participate in Protestant ceremonies?  You seem to advise that sinners participate in ceremonies in your church too.
#25
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@oromagi
Your entire argument is ignorant, don't try to turn the tables by accusing me of making the straw man.
#26
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@oromagi
I think you fail to realize that the transgender in the OP is the pastor of a church.
#27
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I think you fail to realize that the transgender in the OP is the pastor of a church.

I did not fail to realize, I ignored as irrelevant.  triangle.128k makes no argument that Protestants are stupid because they let transpeople be pastors.
triangle.128k argues that Protestants are stupid because they hold "transgender ceremonies," and it seems like any ceremony in which a transgendered person is permitted to play a role qualifies as a "transgender ceremony."

Are sinners disqualified from being pastors in you church?
#28
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@Mopac
You are talking nonsense.
Is that really the limit of your intellectual reasoning?


And they who has never ever attempted to substantiate any of their pseudo hypothetical dogma.

Such is Church I suppose.

#29
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@oromagi
I don't believe the OP is arguing what you say. 

But I suppose that is for you two to debate, not you and I.



#30
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@oromagi
Transgenders certainly should not be leaders in the church. It takes a certain level of commitment to one's idolatry to ever reach the point to where you become a transgender.

Transgenders can repent though, all is not lost.


And to clarify the above post, I don't believe the OP is arguing that protestants are stupid. Rather that protestant churches are incapable of maintaining the integrity of the faith. I agree with him whole heartedly, because it is demonstrably true. 


We are not supposed to hate anyone, nor even really judge tbose outside the church. People can choose what master they serve. We point out that their master is evil. That doesn't necessarily mean that the one serving the master is evil, only that they are deceived. Deceived people by definition are unaware that they are deceived.

Prideful people will persist in their delusion even after coming to realize their error. However, sincere and humble people who love the truth eventually correct course.

It isn't our place to judge who is being honest, that is between a person and God. However, someone who is honestly deceived is incapable of seeing clearly.


Our discipline trains a person to see more clearly.