Nevada debates.

Author: Greyparrot
nevada

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#31
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@WaterPhoenix
The audience were idiots. They clapped when klobuchar said about how everyone made mistakes and forgot names. When she literally forgot the prez of mexico's name, like dude imagine.

She is on the Congressional Board of border enforcement...and doesn't know the Mexican president or what his policies are in relation to American policies...

Government tenure =/= real-world competence.

Tenure should never be equated to experience.
#32
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@Greyparrot
Klobuchar looks like a snake, warren is one.

#33
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@ILikePie5
Correct but that’s just with Vermont which is very D+15 as a state. Slightly misleading to say he’s the most popular senator in the nation. (He is but it doesn’t mean much).
fair enough. Here are the favorability ratings of all the candidates. Sanders has a 3% edge on Biden and a huge lead on everyone else. 

He’d be slaughtered in any swing state or swing congressional district. Radicals like him were practically wiped out in House races in 2018. 
I've yet to see any evidence this is true. Swing state voters want their lives to improve every bit as much as everyone else does. Sanders is by far the best candidate to do that. 
#34
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@bmdrocks21
Iowa:
Bernie/Warren: 44.2%
Biden/Buttigieg/Klobuchar: 54.3%

Ok, and if you add all of them together you get 100%, that would also be a useless statistic.

you can't add candidates together and pretend like that is a valid point. Alot of the 2nd choices for those other candidates you've grouped is Bernie, not each other. 

Now, I know Bernie has been at the top of these polls, but isn't this quite damning for your side? 
no, not at all. The highest 2nd choice for Biden voters is Bernie, not Butigieg or klobachar. Not to mention that Iowa is one of the hardest states for someone like bernie to win. 

The fact that the progressive candidates are getting less than half of the votes, while centrists candidates make up more than half? They haven't chosen one candidate to rally behind, but it is clear that they want a moderate. 
this is a gross misreading. They are looking for someone who they think can beat trump. The media has been non stop lying and saying that is whoever the flavor of the week is. That is not evidence that they want a "moderate" candidate. It is evidence that people are still buying the bullshit electablitity nonsense MSNBC and CNN are spewing.
#35
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Trump won LOL
#36
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@HistoryBuff
But it still shows that the majority of first choices are people who aren’t progressive. My point is that their ideal candidate is a moderate.

The media is trusted by only a small minority of Americans so saying Bernie has no chance is probably helping him tbh. The people they endorse usually end up tanking, like Kamala.

Edit: year old gallop poll shows around 40% of Americans trust mass media. Most distrust comes from Republicans and independents, though. I’m sure a breakdown based on news sources could straighten some of that out.
https://news.gallup.com/poll/267047/americans-trust-mass-media-edges-down.aspx

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#37
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@bmdrocks21
Lol, do you really think the Bernie bros trust MSM?
#38
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@Greyparrot
About as much as the Yaaaaaaanng Gaaaaang
#39
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@bmdrocks21
But it still shows that the majority of first choices are people who aren’t progressive. My point is that their ideal candidate is a moderate.
It doesn't show that at all. Alot of people are voting on "electability", which just means they are guessing what other people want rather than voting on what they want. Outlets like MSNBC and CNN are telling people all day every day that has to be a moderate. Alot of people still buy into that. So even though they might prefer bernie sanders or warren, they are willing to hold their nose and vote for a "moderate" because that is what news pundits say they have to do. If your 1st choice is Biden or Butigieg and your second choice is sanders, then you probably aren't a moderate. 

The media is trusted by only a small minority of Americans so saying Bernie has no chance is probably helping him tbh. The people they endorse usually end up tanking, like Kamala.
the media has respect among specific demographics. Mostly older and wealthier people. So while the media attacking sanders doesn't hurt him much with his core demographic, it does make it hard for him to pick up support in the "older" and "upper middle class white" demographics. These are the demographics that support(ed) people like Butigieg, Kamela, Warren etc. That is why you keep seeing them spike and crash because the media pumps them up, then something happens to make the media narrative change so they crash again. 


#40
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@HistoryBuff
Yeah, electability seems seems to be the biggest issue for Democrats because they don't like Trump and everything. I don't know if there is data for older AND upper class whites listening to MSM, but it sounds reasonable enough. The MSM does indeed not like Bernie. However, what young people generally listen to is alternative media, such as YouTube. I watch some Secular Talk and 90% of videos that I have seen, he mentions that Bernie has the best chance of winning. So, maybe younger people who hate Trump who listen to these types of sources support the progressives  because of that same reason. All we can know at the moment is that moderates have more support than progressives based on caucus results. 

In this poll, it says that 24% of Americans would vote for a socialist for elected office vs 76% that wouldn't. This poll was 67% democrat and independent combined. Now, Bernie says he is a "democratic socialist", but I think he would have to abandon that term to resonate with the electorate. I remember when he debated Ted Cruz and was asked the difference between "democratic socialist" and "socialist" he had no answer. So, while he certainly has a shot at winning the primary, his chanced in the general election are rather grim. If people pick up on that, he could be screwed.

#41
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@bmdrocks21
All we can know at the moment is that moderates have more support than progressives based on caucus results. 
I suppose. If you group all the "moderate" candidates together then you would get a higher number than if you grouped the "progressive" candidates. But this is a misreading of the electorate. It's like saying if you group all the white candidates together you get more than the black candidates. Or if you group the people with a certain color of hair etc. That isn't how most people are deciding on what candidate to support. So trying to group them that way is misleading. 

In this poll, it says that 24% of Americans would vote for a socialist for elected office vs 76% that wouldn't
that poll is from 2 years ago. AOC and Sanders have been steadily growing in popularity since then. That poll is no longer relevant. 
#42
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@HistoryBuff
I suppose. If you group all the "moderate" candidates together then you would get a higher number than if you grouped the "progressive" candidates. But this is a misreading of the electorate. It's like saying if you group all the white candidates together you get more than the black candidates. Or if you group the people with a certain color of hair etc. That isn't how most people are deciding on what candidate to support. So trying to group them that way is misleading. 

It is a bit of a misrepresentation to argue that those are the same thing, though. People don't generally vote based on the skin color or hair color of candidates(except perhaps in the case of Obama), they vote for ideas(ideas are related to who could win as well). If people with some roughly similar group of ideas are doing worse to another group of ideas, there is likely more to it than just winning.

This poll from 2019 says that 40% of Democrats care about beating Donald Trump as their priority. 56% said it was most important that the candidate aligned with their views. You can't shirk the electability portion, but it still doesn't outweigh the importance of ideals. You could argue things have changed, but I would disagree, as his approval rating is very high now. It is maybe a few % points lower among Dems.

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#43
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@bmdrocks21
What's funny is that the Bernie Bros want more DC control over the economy than even China currently is implementing.
#44
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@bmdrocks21
 they vote for ideas(ideas are related to who could win as well). If people with some roughly similar group of ideas are doing worse to another group of ideas, there is likely more to it than just winning.
the flaw in your thinking is that you believe that people group those ideas. IE you seem to think that if people support medicare for all and a living wage that makes them a progressive and they therefore describe them self as a progressive. People don't tend to do that. They might support those progressive ideas but really like joe biden because he was Obama's VP (or some other random reason). So saying that because they support joe biden they are a "moderate" or that a "moderate" is their ideal candidate is wrong. 

This poll from 2019 says that 40% of Democrats care about beating Donald Trump as their priority. 56% said it was most important that the candidate aligned with their views. You can't shirk the electability portion, but it still doesn't outweigh the importance of ideals.
I agree. And Sanders is, by a wide margin, the most electable of the candidates. So that stat only reinforces that people should vote for sanders. 


#45
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@Greyparrot
People try to say Bernie isn’t radical, relating his issues to European countries’. However, there are some subtle differences that make him more radical. A lot of those countries have freer markets than us. He hasn’t mentioned any plans to deregulate or any other such measure. He wants healthcare to be free at the point of service, but I think I heard no other country does this(they have certain fees).