My Creator

Author: Paul

Posts

Total: 160
#31
SkepticalOne
SkepticalOne's avatar
Debates: 9
Posts: 1,720
3
3
7
SkepticalOne's avatar
SkepticalOne
3
3
7
-->
@Mopac
The Supreme and Ultimate Reality is not contingent on observation or postulation.

Hmmm, okay...

The Supreme and Ultimate Reality existed before the universe, is greater than the universe, and will exist long after the universe. If there is even a multiverse, The Supreme and Ultimate Reality is greater than all of this, existed before, willl exist after, and is eternal.
Without observation, how do you know these things to be true?
#32
Stronn
Stronn's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 511
2
2
4
Stronn's avatar
Stronn
2
2
4
-->
@Mopac
I thought Ultimate Reality simply meant The Truth. Yet now you say it also means something that cannot be known.

It also begs the question, if Ultimate Reality cannot be known, how do you know it exists?
#33
Mopac
Mopac's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 8,050
3
4
7
Mopac's avatar
Mopac
3
4
7
-->
@Stronn
@SkepticalOne
Ultimate Reality is what makes any reality real at all. The fact that we are having an experience shows there is some form of reality. Ultimate Reality is the reality that is most real or true. The reality that gives all realities their reality. 

#34
EtrnlVw
EtrnlVw's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 2,869
3
3
5
EtrnlVw's avatar
EtrnlVw
3
3
5
-->
@Paul
I don't know about the purpose part

And then you went on to explain its purpose lol...

stairs explode they make the atoms that make people and dirt and all the other stuff in the universe.

#35
Castin
Castin's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 2,239
3
2
7
Castin's avatar
Castin
3
2
7
-->
@Paul
Yes it's the universe.

Let me be clear here, the universe has no intelligent agency, just the laws of physics. A flowing river can create a canyon, but the river has no intelligent agency either. Many people wrongly assume that when they see the word creator it implies an intelligent agency, it does not.
It would appear we share a common creator. And an awesome, fascinating, deeply mystifying creator it is.

Why do you think it's so important to people that our creator have intelligent agency?

Obviously I already have an answer and could probably guess yours, but all people do in religion forums is ask the same questions and have the same discussions, so why not.
#36
Stephen
Stephen's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 8,616
3
2
2
Stephen's avatar
Stephen
3
2
2
-->
@EtrnlVw
Ahhh, star dust? but do you know why star dust exists? 

American astronomer, astrophysicist, astrobiologist, cosmologist, author, science popularizer, and science communicator in astronomy and other natural sciences, says ;.

"we are star stuff"

#37
SkepticalOne
SkepticalOne's avatar
Debates: 9
Posts: 1,720
3
3
7
SkepticalOne's avatar
SkepticalOne
3
3
7
-->
@Mopac
To be clear, you said the "The Supreme and Ultimate Reality is greater than all of this (the multiverse], existed before, willl exist after, and is eternal." By this view,  "Ultimate reality" and reality are not synonymous. 

Now you've changed your story saying the 'ultimate reality is a reality that is most real or true'. Not only is this contradictory to your previous explanation, but it does not answer the question it set to answer, which was:

Without observation, how do you know these things to be true? How could anyone (without observation) know anything about what might or might not of existed before or after existence as we know it? 





#38
Mopac
Mopac's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 8,050
3
4
7
Mopac's avatar
Mopac
3
4
7
-->
@SkepticalOne
I dispute that I have made any contradiction, I have been very consistent the entire time I have been posting on this forum.
If there is any inconsistency, it is certainly in your interpretation, because I understand what I am saying.


I do not need to know how things truly are to know that there is a way things truly are. You are asking an unreasonable question.
#39
SkepticalOne
SkepticalOne's avatar
Debates: 9
Posts: 1,720
3
3
7
SkepticalOne's avatar
SkepticalOne
3
3
7
-->
@Mopac
The contradiction is unmistakable, but I certainly cannot force you to address or clarify anything.

Also, if you know how things truly are, why are you unable/unwilling to show others how you know these things?
#40
Mopac
Mopac's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 8,050
3
4
7
Mopac's avatar
Mopac
3
4
7
-->
@SkepticalOne
I never claimed to know how things truly are.

I said, to rephraee, I don't need to know The Truth to know The Truth exists.

Those who deny the existence of God are very wrong, and it isn't even honest to entertain the idea that they could be right. After all, they are not just denying any old thing, they are literally denying Truth itself. It is a self defeating position.

So really, if you were to say, "The Ultimate Reality does not exist", you would be the one contradicting yourself. You can't say, "It is the truth that the truth is a lie and there is no truth!" without obviously contradicting yourself, and that is exactly what someone is doing when they say there is no God.

In fact, it isn't even reasonable to be on the fence about this. 




#41
Stephen
Stephen's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 8,616
3
2
2
Stephen's avatar
Stephen
3
2
2
-->
@Mopac
If there is any inconsistency, it is certainly in your interpretation, because I understand what I am saying.

Why is that everyone else who speaks to the contrary of an opinion are the ones that "don't understand"  "have misread"  " have misinterpreted" "can't read", "are ignorant"?

You have been caught out clearly for everyone reading here to see Mopac. 
#42
Mopac
Mopac's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 8,050
3
4
7
Mopac's avatar
Mopac
3
4
7
-->
@Stephen
I must be too ignorant to see that, because I just see you projecting your haughtiness on to me.

#43
Stephen
Stephen's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 8,616
3
2
2
Stephen's avatar
Stephen
3
2
2
-->
@Mopac
I must be too ignorant to see that, because I just see you projecting your haughtiness on to me.
Or stating a fact.
#44
EtrnlVw
EtrnlVw's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 2,869
3
3
5
EtrnlVw's avatar
EtrnlVw
3
3
5
-->
@Stephen
American astronomer, astrophysicist, astrobiologist, cosmologist, author, science popularizer, and science communicator in astronomy and other natural sciences, says ;.

And my post and answer said...
"Stars exist for the purpose of seeding the universe, where planets can inhabit life."

Yes, we are star stuff, as well as conscious/soul stuff. Starz keep the universe alive, not the conscious soul. But of course, star "dust" is what seeds our universe. 


#45
Mopac
Mopac's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 8,050
3
4
7
Mopac's avatar
Mopac
3
4
7
-->
@Stephen
I am certain that everyone here does not see me as being inconsistent or contradictory, so you are not stating a fact. Your presumption that everyone sees as you do is haughtiness.


It stands to reason that someone whose stated position is that "The Truth does not exist" would be an arbitrary and haughty individual.

Topic's author
#46
Paul
Paul's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 470
1
2
2
Paul's avatar
Paul
1
2
2
-->
@EtrnlVw
Your comment makes no sense at all. Are you religious or something?
Topic's author
#47
Paul
Paul's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 470
1
2
2
Paul's avatar
Paul
1
2
2
-->
@Castin
That would require a long answer, but something along the lines of the structure of the brain, our evolutionary past, our psychology, the false positive, etc. People like to anthropomorphise things so they tend to wish to see things as being alive, they do it a lot in story telling which is what the bible is, stories.

Topic's author
#48
Paul
Paul's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 470
1
2
2
Paul's avatar
Paul
1
2
2
-->
@Mopac
Why do you keep saying that over and over? You need only say it once, I heard you the first time.
#49
Mopac
Mopac's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 8,050
3
4
7
Mopac's avatar
Mopac
3
4
7
-->
@Paul
Repeat what?

#50
EtrnlVw
EtrnlVw's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 2,869
3
3
5
EtrnlVw's avatar
EtrnlVw
3
3
5
-->
@Paul
Your comment makes no sense at all.

Which one? I'd be glad to make sense of it for ya. Usually what I write is pretty straight forward and easy to get so I'm doubting it makes no sense. 

Are you religious or something?

Lol you just figured that out in the religious section?? I would more so classify myself as spiritual, even though they go hand in hand sometimes "religious" portrays something fundamentalist in nature.  
Topic's author
#51
Paul
Paul's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 470
1
2
2
Paul's avatar
Paul
1
2
2
-->
@Mopac
You sound like you are trying to sell me something.

Your use of the word truth is excessive, why do you think that is?

#52
Mopac
Mopac's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 8,050
3
4
7
Mopac's avatar
Mopac
3
4
7
-->
@Paul
I freely give the good news, that The Truth is salvation, The Truth sets you free, and what can be better news? We don't have to lie to ourselves or believe in ridiculous things. Abide in The Truth.

Topic's author
#53
Paul
Paul's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 470
1
2
2
Paul's avatar
Paul
1
2
2
-->
@Mopac
Well yeah, but the only people that go out of their way to say the word truth are normally recognized as likely to be frauds. You are just perpetuating that stereotype.
#54
Mopac
Mopac's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 8,050
3
4
7
Mopac's avatar
Mopac
3
4
7
-->
@Paul
But I am not selling anything, neither am I trying to make myself out to be something. How am I commiting fraud?

The Supreme and Ultimate Reality is God, and this is the creator of all. There was none before, and there will be none after. My God is the eternal God, The One True God. 

I am pointing to God, who is not myself. I have nothing to gain.


#55
disgusted
disgusted's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 4,959
2
3
3
disgusted's avatar
disgusted
2
3
3
-->
@Mopac
We don't have to lie to ourselves or believe in ridiculous things

You believe that you won't die, I can't think of anything more ridiculous than that.
#56
Mopac
Mopac's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 8,050
3
4
7
Mopac's avatar
Mopac
3
4
7
-->
@disgusted
I can. You presuming to know what I believe.
#57
disgusted
disgusted's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 4,959
2
3
3
disgusted's avatar
disgusted
2
3
3
-->
@Mopac
You can what? That you will die? bwuahahahahahah.
Not a snowballs chance in hell. You are a godist.
#58
Mopac
Mopac's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 8,050
3
4
7
Mopac's avatar
Mopac
3
4
7
-->
@disgusted
If a truth dies, does The Truth die with it?


#59
disgusted
disgusted's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 4,959
2
3
3
disgusted's avatar
disgusted
2
3
3
-->
@Mopac
Confusing yourself does not confuse reality. You don't believe in your death, deny that.
#60
Mopac
Mopac's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 8,050
3
4
7
Mopac's avatar
Mopac
3
4
7
-->
@disgusted
Of course I die.

But The Truth lives on.