How Much More Of This Nonsense Are We Supposed To Take?

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#1
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They just keep outdoing one another, don't they. 

Why does all this mean? Why does Luke here contradiction John?



Luke 14:26

If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.


1 John 4:20

 Whoever claims to love God yet hates a brother or sister is a liar. For whoever does not love their brother and sister, whom they have seen, cannot love God, whom they have not seen.

I really do wish these scribes would make up their minds. Are we to "love" our brothers and sisters or are we to "hate" our brothers and sisters?
#2
EtrnlVw
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@Stephen
If you take all the teachings of Jesus into consideration it's obvious what he is stating  in both verses, they can be compatible if you consider you have both an earthly life as well as a heavenly or spiritual life. If you read the entire chapter of Luke this verse is obviously about principle, or priorities even though you want to focus squarely on this one as you usually do.
It's a challenge to the individual to think about where their priorities lay, and are you willing to put God your Maker before all other things. In doing so it's not a literal command to hate your family in light of Jesus' command to love others, it is a challenge to think about your relation to God and who you answer to. As you shift your priorities towards God per say all other things fall in their proper place.

That's my take on it of course, and one I know for a fact you will not accept nevertheless there it is. And now you will begin the process of repeating yourself over and over so at that point one has to wonder why you even ask these things. So what is more likely here, that Jesus blatantly contradicts his own message or is he pointing out an underlying principle? I'm going with the latter. Note that in the beginning of that chapter it says "7 And he put forth a parable to those which were bidden, when he marked how they chose out the chief rooms; saying unto them."....

Also in another passage Jesus says " "Your mother and brothers are outside looking for you." 33"Who are my mother and my brothers?" he asked. 34Then he looked at those seated in a circle around him and said, "Here are my mother and my brothers! 35Whoever does God's will is my brother and sister and mother."
This is the same basic principle he puts forth.

#3
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@EtrnlVw
@Stephen
I for the most part would say the same thing EtrnlVw did.

The Greek word here can also mean to love less when used in the context of a choice, that is, you are supposed to always love God more than anything, even family. It is also very easy to make family an idol before God. The word here actually denotes a preference.

Of course, you should love your family. 

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@Mopac
The word is HATE, get over it.
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@disgusted
What matters is what the church teaches, because the bible can not be meaningfully seperated from the church.




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@Mopac
The word is HATE, get over it.
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#7
Stephen
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@Mopac
I for the most part would say the same thing EtrnlVw did.
Of course you would. And I  wouldn't expect anything else from a sheep.

EtrnlVw wrote:  "If you take all the teachings of Jesus into consideration it's obvious what he is stating  in both verses,"

1John:1 -20
 These are not the words of the Christ.

 1John:1 -20 are clearly the words of the author he is not quoting the Christ. Read it ALL for yourself. 

Would Jesus say 1 John:1: 9     "He sent his one and only Son that we might live through him"? NO! - he would say -  ' he sent me'.  

Would Jesus say 1 John:1: 10  " but that he loved us and sent his Son as an atoning sacrifice for our sins". ? NO! - he would say - 'he sent me'.

Would Jesus say 1 John:1: 14  "And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent his Son to be the Savior of the world ? NO! - he would say - 'he sent me'.

And would Jesus say  15 If anyone acknowledges that Jesus is the Son of God, God lives in them and they in God"?  NO! - he would say - 'If anyone acknowledges that I AM the son of god'. 


And would Jesus say>>>1 John:1 - 17 " In this world we are like Jesus".  NO! - he would say -  "In this world YOU are like ME!!!!!!



And Luke 14:1-26 makes it perfectly clear who is talking!!!

The Cost of Being a Disciple
25 Large crowds were traveling with Jesus, and turning to them he said: 26 “If anyone comes to me and does not hate father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters—yes, even their own life—such a person cannot be my disciple.


You people are absolutely full of it. You make shite up on the hoof and pray no one will actuality research and check your answers and responses.

It is a clear biblical contradiction that you are not explaining, but attempting to explain away!!!  They are verses that  are a complete embarrassment to you.


What matters is what the church teaches, 
That is my whole problem with these scriptures and how they are taught by the church and its fawning, sycophantic minions. The spin. and unsubstantiated stories and lies you invent to explain embarrassing statements and verses away such as those I have highlighted above is absolutely eye watering.......... all the time.

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#8
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@EtrnlVw
it's obvious......  is obviously

You say that fat too often, without explaining anything at all.


That's my take on it of course,

And here is mine:


EtrnlVw wrote:  "If you take all the teachings of Jesus into consideration it's obvious what he is stating  in both verses,"

1John:1 -20
 These are not the words of the Christ.

 1John:1 -20 are clearly the words of the author he is not quoting the Christ. Read it ALL for yourself. 

Would Jesus say 1 John:1: 9     "He sent his one and only Son that we might live through him"? NO! - he would say -  ' he sent me'.  

Would Jesus say 1 John:1: 10  " but that he loved us and sent his Son as an atoning sacrifice for our sins". ? NO! - he would say - 'he sent me'.

Would Jesus say 1 John:1: 14  "And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent his Son to be the Savior of the world ? NO! - he would say - 'he sent me'.

And would Jesus say  15 If anyone acknowledges that Jesus is the Son of God, God lives in them and they in God"?  NO! - he would say - 'If anyone acknowledges that I AM the son of god'. 


And would Jesus say>>>1 John:1 - 17 " In this world we are like Jesus"? 



And Luke 14:1-26 makes it perfectly clear who is talking!!!

The Cost of Being a Disciple
25 Large crowds were traveling with Jesus, and turning to them he said: 26 “If anyone comes to me and does not hate father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters—yes, even their own life—such a person cannot be my disciple.




#9
ethang5
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@Stephen
Of course you would. And I  wouldn't expect anything else from a sheep.
Sheep do not have sentience. They cannot type. They do not own computers or smart phones.

If you expect a sheep to be making posts here, then I wonder about your sanity.

If a sheep did own a pc, and could type, why in the world would he be posting to the religion forum?

You cannot possibly expect anyone to take you seriously if you also "expect" farm animals to be posting to this forum.
#10
EtrnlVw
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@ethang5
Lol I was hoping you'd be back to keep Stevie on his toes. He bores me too much to bother with em. 
#11
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@EtrnlVw
Thanks for holding the fort. Some nice posts there bud. Too bad the levelheaded wisdom in them was wasted on some.
#12
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Well, we all are familiar with the parable of sorting the sheep from goats, eh?
#13
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Boring? Boring? Et excels his nonsense  beyond any possible credibility.
He is so funny in his delusions.
When is the next tour of the god worlds you will be conducting?
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#14
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@ethang5



The new mod team is up to snuff. Give it time. As thedead-weights leave, higher quality posters will come in.

Indeed.  And let us all hope they continue to be vigilant in acknowledging  harassment, doctoring of posts, hate speech and unnecessary  personal attacks , and argument  just for the hell of it. Eh Ethang,what do you say.




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#15
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@EtrnlVw
Lol I was hoping you'd be back to keep Stevie on his toes. He bores me too much to bother with em. 

You forgot to read and address this clanger you well and truly dropped.

EtrnlVw wrote:  "If you take all the teachings of Jesus into consideration it's obvious what he is stating  in both verses,"



 WRONG... AGAIN!!!!  These are not the words of the Christ. These are the words of the author. Not Jesus.

 1John:1 -20  Read it ALL for yourself. 


Would Jesus say 1 John:1: 9     "He sent his one and only Son that we might live through him"? NO! - he would say -  ' he sent me'.  

Would Jesus say 1 John:1: 10  " but that he loved us and sent his Son as an atoning sacrifice for our sins". ? NO! - he would say - 'he sent me'.

Would Jesus say 1 John:1: 14  "And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent his Son to be the Savior of the world ? NO! - he would say - 'he sent me'.

And would Jesus say  15 If anyone acknowledges that Jesus is the Son of God, God lives in them and they in God"?  NO! - he would say - 'If anyone acknowledges that I AM the son of god'. 


And would Jesus say>>>1 John:1 - 17 " In this world we are like Jesus"? 



And Luke 14:1-26 makes it perfectly clear who is talking!!!

The Cost of Being a Disciple
25 Large crowds were traveling with Jesus, and turning to them he said: 26 “If anyone comes to me and does not hate father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters—yes, even their own life—such a person cannot be my disciple.



It appears I have shown you to be wrong again.... which isn't too hard to do. 

#16
ethang5
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@Stephen
Eh Ethang,what do you say.
I say once again you've dodged the topic of my post.

You said...

Of course you would. And I  wouldn't expect anything else from a sheep.
Sheep do not have sentience. They cannot type. They do not own computers or smart phones.

You cannot possibly expect anyone to take you seriously if you also "expect" farm animals to be posting to this forum.

Can you clear that up?
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#17
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@ethang5


Can you clear that up?

Nothing to clear up, its your opinion and you are welcome to it. This is not to mention how many times Jesus calls himself a shepherd and the many times others call him a "shepherd" and his "flock" sheep.

This is my favorite:

John 10:11 "I am the good shepherd; the good shepherd lays down His life for the sheep.

So, not surprisingly, you have failed again and are already attempting to create an argument from nothing. 

So  now either address the blazing contradiction concerning love and hate, or simply leave the thread. 

#18
ethang5
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@Stephen
Nothing to clear up, its your opinion and you are welcome to it.
I posted your comment, not my opinion.

This is not to mention how many times Jesus calls himself a shepherd and the many times others call him a "shepherd" and his "flock" sheep. 
So Jesus had sheep. So what? You could be a shephard if you had sheep. But that is very different from calling a poster to this thread a sheep. That isn't my opinion, its your comment. Are you denying you said it?

So, not surprisingly, you have failed again and are already attempting to create an argument from nothing. 
I'm asking you a question about something you said, just like you do with the bible.

So  now either address the blazing contradiction concerning love and hate, or simply leave the thread. 
Lol. Without you addressing your blazing contradiction concerning sheep and posting? I don't think so. I'm going to make you run and dodge till you're even more dizzy than you usually are.

Sheep do not have sentience. They cannot type. They do not own computers or smart phones.

You cannot possibly expect anyone to take you seriously if you also "expect" farm animals to be posting to this forum.

Can you clear that up?
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You cannot possibly expect anyone to take you seriously if you also "expect" farm animals to be posting to this forum.

Can you clear that up?  
No I do think "farm animals" are posting on this forum. Although there are no doubt some pig ignorant posters here .
 
But are you suggesting that the Christ then didn't ever  called himself a "shepherd" and his people his "sheep?  Are you suggesting  that the Christ only considered his followers and his people to be mere lowly farm animals? That is very silly isn't it.

No, surely not!  I believe he was talking about his followers and his people/ Israel being led like sheep and referring to himself as a shepherd.... a good shepherd.

Mopac is  one of these sheep in the religious sense of the word as are you and anyone else that purports to follow in the ways of Jesus... the good shepherd.

Now. especially for you;

Why does all this mean? Why does Luke here contradiction John?

Luke 14:26

If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.


1 John 4:20

 Whoever claims to love God yet hates a brother or sister is a liar. For whoever does not love their brother and sister, whom they have seen, cannot love God, whom they have not seen.

I really do wish these scribes would make up their minds. Are we to "love" our brothers and sisters or are we to "hate" our brothers and sisters?


#20
ethang5
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You cannot possibly expect anyone to take you seriously if you also "expect" farm animals to be posting to this forum. Can you clear that up? 

No I do think "farm animals" are posting on this forum.
Thank you. OK then, you responded to MoPac this way,...

Mopac - I for the most part would say the same thing EtrnlVw did.
Stephen - Of course you would. And I  wouldn't expect anything else from a sheep.
You are saying that MoPac is not a literal sheep. So you must be using a different definition of "sheep". So you are aware that words can have more than one meaning.

Could not the bible be using different meanings of the words also? Because you did say "sheep". Why is your comment not a contradiction?

If you can see that, why can you not see how dumb it is to simply insist on the word used and not examine the meaning intended?

Although there are no doubt some pig ignorant posters here .
Lol. On that most people reading your posts can agree. Pigs, like sheep, are ignorant.
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#21
Stephen
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@EtrnlVw
Lol I was hoping you'd be back to keep Stevie on his toes.
Yes you just keep putting in the bullets and he will surely fire them . He's fell for it every other time and there is no reason to believe he won't be gullible enough again. I suppose you would rather me make someone else look silly rather than yourself. This is what happened to him the last time he took the bait and was silly enough to be goaded and egged on by the likes of you.

Date: 12/23/2019
Moderator: Joint-moderator decision

ethang5 has been banned for 14-days for a continuous pattern of violations of the personal attacks section of the COC, with hate speech serving as an aggravating factor.https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/3024/public-moderation-log

At least Mopac speaks for himself although I do question that at times.




He bores me too much to bother with em. 

You was not dragged to this thread.  You came,  you made a absolutely stupid and baseless statement, I showed you to be wrong and now you say you are bored. LOL 
 
#22
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@Stephen
It's obvious...

You say that fat too often

That's the word I use when someone is being a dum dum

without explaining anything at all.

Lol, that's what happens when you CUT out the explanation and ignore it Disguste….I mean Stevie, here it is again.


they can be compatible if you consider you have both an earthly life as well as a heavenly or spiritual life. If you read the entire chapter of Luke this verse is obviously about principle, or priorities even though you want to focus squarely on this one as you usually do.
It's a challenge to the individual to think about where their priorities lay, and are you willing to put God your Maker before all other things. In doing so it's not a literal command to hate your family in light of Jesus' command to love others, it is a challenge to think about your relation to God and who you answer to. As you shift your priorities towards God per say all other things fall in their proper place.

That's my take on it of course, and one I know for a fact you will not accept nevertheless there it is. And now you will begin the process of repeating yourself over and over so at that point one has to wonder why you even ask these things. So what is more likely here, that Jesus blatantly contradicts his own message or is he pointing out an underlying principle? I'm going with the latter. Note that in the beginning of that chapter it says "7 And he put forth a parable to those which were bidden, when he marked how they chose out the chief rooms; saying unto them."....

Also in another passage Jesus says " "Your mother and brothers are outside looking for you." 33"Who are my mother and my brothers?" he asked. 34Then he looked at those seated in a circle around him and said, "Here are my mother and my brothers! 35Whoever does God's will is my brother and sister and mother."
This is the same basic principle he puts forth.

Now go ahead and bore me to death with ignoring answers and repeating yourself 3...2.....1...go!

#23
ethang5
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@Stephen
You are saying that MoPac is not a literal sheep. So you must be using a different definition of the word "sheep". So you are aware that words can have more than one meaning.

Could not the bible be using different meanings of the words love and hate also? Because you did say "sheep". Why is your comment not a contradiction?

If you can see that, why can you not see how dumb it is to simply insist on the word usedin the bible and not examine the meaning intended in the bible?

Here are your contradicting comments again:

1. And I  wouldn't expect anything else from a sheep. - Said to MoPac, a human being posting to this thread.

2. No I do think "farm animals" are posting on this forum. -Yet you called a poster a barnyard animal.

While you're crying that words in the bible can have only one meaning, you're running away from your own one meaning contradiction. 

Can the class say hypocrite?

I thought it could.
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#24
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@EtrnlVw
they can be compatible

No they cannot and they are not.
Two different authors one speaking for himself and one quoting the Christ verbatim.

I have shown you why you were wrong would you like for me to show you again?
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#25
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@ethang5
You are saying that MoPac is not a literal sheep

No that is the way you want to and are interpret the word and out of context.

Could not the bible be using different meanings of the words love and hate also?

They are different words. and they do mean TWO DIFFERENT things. FFS try reading this contradictory crap for yourself and keep up.


#26
ethang5
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@Stephen
You are saying that MoPac is not a literal sheep

No that is the way you want to and are interpret the word and out of context.
So you are saying MoPac is a literal sheep?

Could not the bible be using different meanings of the words love and hate also? 

They are different words. and they do mean TWO DIFFERENT things.
Depends on the meaning genius. Sheep and human are different words too. You called a human a sheep.

FFS try reading this contradictory crap for yourself and keep up.
I've read your contradictory crap and I am trying to get you to stop dodging and address it.

Calling a human a sheep is a contradiction genius. Maybe you don't know what a contradiction is.

Do you?
#27
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@disgusted
Et excels his nonsense  beyond any possible credibility.
He is so funny in his delusions.
***
As a reminder, RO's are not given lightly. You and Ethang (the most likely "Et" you were referring to) have one until about the end of the month. Please do not reply to him, or otherwise attempt to bait him into replying to you. Should this continue, we of the moderation team will be forced to more directly assist you in obeying the CoC.
-Ragnar, DM
***
#28
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@Barney
Pay attention, I never refer to thang as ET, ET is eternal whatsisname.

#29
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@disgusted
Does it matter? you're a troll either way. There's better names for you but I'll leave it at that...
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#30
Stephen
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@ethang5
You are saying that MoPac is not a literal sheep

No that is the way you want to and are interpret the word and out of context.

Could not the bible be using different meanings of the words love and hate also?

They are different words. and they do mean TWO DIFFERENT things. FFS try reading this contradictory crap for yourself and keep up.