Does white or male privilege exist?

Author: Alec

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#31
Swagnarok
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@Greyparrot
There's no better place on the planet to be born colored than in the USA today, assuming you have 2 parents.

American wealth and opportunity is insane comparatively.


Sure. This is true. But why speak in these terms? White Americans automatically expect to achieve *at least* a lower middle class standard of living. Why should a certain subsection of the population expect less than this simply because of who their ancestors were and what their skin tone is? (Mind you we're not talking about non-citizens here we're talking about Black-Americans.)

Keep in mind also that there's a concept called relative deprivation. If you're poor *compared to what's normal for your society* you're going to feel like your life doesn't have much value and, unfortunately, some other people are going to act towards you according to this same assumption. This is an issue that a desperately poor person in a society of desperately poor people doesn't have to deal with.
#32
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@Swagnarok
Probably a lot to do with that part where I assumed a person had 2 parents.

Policy aimed at promoting economic opportunity for poor children must be framed within three stark realities. First, many poor children come from families that do not give them the kind of support that middle-class children get from their families. Second, as a result, these children enter kindergarten far behind their more advantaged peers and, on average, never catch up and even fall further behind. Third, in addition to the education deficit, poor children are more likely to make bad decisions that lead them to drop out of school, become teen parents, join gangs, and break the law.

In addition to the thousands of local and national programs that aim to help young people avoid these life-altering problems, we should figure out more ways to convince young people that their decisions will greatly influence whether they avoid poverty and enter the middle class. Let politicians, schoolteachers, and administrators, community leaders, ministers, and parents drill into children the message that in a free society, they enter adulthood with three major responsibilities: at least finish high school, get a full-time job and wait until age 21 to get married and have children.
Our research shows that of American adults who followed these three simple rules, only about 2 percent are in poverty and nearly 75 percent have joined the middle class (defined as earning around $55,000 or more per year). There are surely influences other than these principles at play, but following them guides a young adult away from poverty and toward the middle class.

Consider an example. Today, more than 40 percent of American children, including more than 70 percent of black children and 50 percent of Hispanic children, are born outside marriage. This unprecedented rate of nonmarital births, combined with the nation’s high divorce rate, means that around half of children will spend part of their childhood—and for a considerable number of these all of their childhood — in a single-parent family. As hard as single parents try to give their children a healthy home environment, children in female-headed families are four or more times as likely as children from married-couple families to live in poverty. In turn, poverty is associated with a wide range of negative outcomes in children, including school dropout and out-of-wedlock births.

#33
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@drafterman
Where's the line for white skin so I can collect my government slave?
#34
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@drafterman
Also in most social circles today, the most oppressed person is by far a straight white male.
#35
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@Greyparrot
Yes, white people are oppressed because they can't own slaves. That is the gist of your two posts in conjunction.
#36
TheDredPriateRoberts
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@drafterman
I don't know, there will always be bias, that's just human nature and it affects everyone to some degree.  We are all capable of more, no one has really tried their hardest, they/we settle.  
Thinking about places like Baltimore, Chicago and similar.  Places who have received many millions, have black governors, congress persons etc.  Why are those such shithole places?  Because of systemic racism?  I'm not seeing it if it's there.  Sure seems the only time any of them claim racism is when they are in the news because of some controversy.  Maybe Elija Cummings said the shithole parts of his state were because of racism but I don't recall it.  If not it must be some other reason I suppose.
Now if you were to liken these issue to the soft bigotry of low expectations then I would agree with that.  But I view them as different issues in the context most people portray them as.
#37
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@drafterman
There's some social circles where you are not even allowed to speak if you claim being straight while having white skin and a penis.
#38
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@TheDredPriateRoberts
I just want to be clear here.

We live in a country where black people were literally owned and treated as property for 246 years.

Then, for the next 100 years, they were subject to lynchings, Jim Crow laws, segregation, discrimination.

And I ask you if the effects of those state of affairs disappear over night, and you "don't know."

To you this is a big mystery the world will never know. You think it's possible that the second LBJ's pencil finished signing his name to the Civil Right's act that every and all racism, discrimination, and bias toward black people just instantly and irrevocably vanished, never to be seen again. You consider this a real possibility?

#39
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@Greyparrot
I don't believe you.
#40
TheDredPriateRoberts
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@Swagnarok
White Americans automatically expect to achieve *at least* a lower middle class standard of living.
don't you mean work for?  how do you "expect" a standard of living if you aren't a socialist aka democrat?  
I grew up poor, didn't like it much, I'm not wealthy, but I'm not poor either.  I never expected anything, I earned it because I didn't want to be poor.  Most of my friends were poor, we lived and grew up in a poor town.  Many are not poor, some are, some got involved in drugs and or crime and never did much as far are earning a living.  There are some, probably quite a few that look at welfare as a lifestyle, life choice.  Well anyway there's an awful lot of reasons why people are poor etc, some can't be helped but I think most can be.

#41
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@drafterman
as I said bias is a human trait, everyone has it and always will.
the so called "white supremist" have been dwindling in numbers for a long while with an estimate of only a few thousand in the U.S. (last I heard)  But I don't consider that systemic, nor do I know of any systems setup to be racist.

Equality is a funny thing, we should treat everyone equally unless a certain group can exclude others because of their skin color, doesn't that seem a bit oh I dunno hypocritical to you regardless of the justification?
#42
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@drafterman

and 



#43
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@TheDredPriateRoberts
I'm just trying to get a straight yes/no answer to you as to whether or not the side-effects of legally enforced slavery and discrimination are likely to go away over night. You seem to be taking great pains to avoid a simple answer.

#44
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@Greyparrot
That is not an example of a "social circle where you are not even allowed to speak if you claim being straight while having white skin and a penis."

#45
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@Alec
I thought they only had a pistol on them or were searching for a pistol, which I don't think even NY banned.  It's certainly not worth getting shot over.

Not sure on specifics. I know NY has pretty strict laws on clip capacity, so maybe they were looking at that.
#46
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@drafterman
I'm just trying to get a straight yes/no answer to you as to whether or not the side-effects of legally enforced slavery and discrimination are likely to go away over night. You seem to be taking great pains to avoid a simple answer.
As far as I know, Detroit has never had legalized slavery. What's your excuse now?

#47
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@Greyparrot
I'm just trying to get a straight yes/no answer to you as to whether or not the side-effects of legally enforced slavery and discrimination are likely to go away over night.
#48
Greyparrot
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@drafterman
That's a silly question to examine on a yes/no basis because you will always find echoes of the past in everything in human history. The real question is how relevant or significant that echo is.

Detroit has been in a free territory and later was in a free state with no legal slavery. How could you possibly imagine legalized slavery in other areas of the country caused Detroit to become the shithole it is today compared to other far more significant local factors?

Like Dreadpirate said already, there are less than 3000 remaining white supremacists left in the country. It's statistically far more likely that you will meet a colored multi-millionaire than a white supremacist in your lifetime. What is the real significance of this?
#49
drafterman
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@Greyparrot
Detroit has been in a free territory and later was in a free state with no legal slavery. How could you possibly imagine legalized slavery in other areas of the country caused Detroit to become the shithole it is today compared to other far more significant local factors?
Because the people involved in legal slavery and discrimination moved there.


#50
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@drafterman
And you believe it's a significant factor today compared to any other problem..say like 77% fatherless issue?
#51
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@Greyparrot
Unless you believe the effects of centuries of slavery and discrimination magically vanish over night, you could say that the latter is present because of the former.
#52
drafterman
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@Greyparrot
As a hypothetical, of course, since that statistic seems like it was pulled out of someone's ass.
#53
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@TheDredPriateRoberts
#54
Greyparrot
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@drafterman
As a hypothetical, of course, since that statistic seems like it was pulled out of someone's ass.


So you agree with me that historical legalized slavery is today an insignificant issue. Thanks.
#55
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@Greyparrot
They're not fatherless. Just unmarried.

I'm still waiting on an example of a "social circle where you are not even allowed to speak if you claim being straight while having white skin and a penis."
#56
bmdrocks21
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@Greyparrot
Detroit has been in a free territory and later was in a free state with no legal slavery. How could you possibly imagine legalized slavery in other areas of the country caused Detroit to become the shithole it is today compared to other far more significant local factors?

Detroit used to be one of the richest cities in the country back in the 1950s. Then after the 1967 race riots, anyone with money left the town, so they really brought it upon themselves.

#57
Greyparrot
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@drafterman
I posted 3 examples.
#58
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@drafterman
"social circle where you are not even allowed to speak if you claim being straight while having white skin and a penis."

They're called safe spaces. Coming soon to a university near you :P
#59
Greyparrot
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@bmdrocks21
Detroit used to be one of the richest cities in the country back in the 1950s. Then after the 1967 race riots, anyone with money left the town, so they really brought it upon themselves.

Nah bro, it's HISTORICAL SLAVERY. and the lack of reparations. Get your story straight.

#60
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@Greyparrot
No, you didn't. Those aren't examples of "social circles where you are not even allowed to speak if you claim being straight while having white skin and a penis."