7 day bans seem kind of excessive

Author: Lunatic

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#31
Lunatic
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@RationalMadman

No. That was not what took it down. There was spam for many years and he refused to even let anyone help him delete it because he is a megalomaniac who thinks he is the only means to justice.

This statement right here shows your ignorance of the subject. Airmax never had the ability to give someone moderation privileges, only juggle did.

he honestly thinks this, I talked to him and got to know him in ways you other users didn't)'

How you gonna tell me this lol. I talked to max almost every night, this is not him. From my understanding you were pretty friendly with him in hangouts, and just talk shit on him when you don't think he's around to respond. Doubtful you would confront him in a hangout now lol.

He sees a system as either something he should give no shits about the justice of or otherwise one he should entirely control the justice of. I do not care what you say to defend or deflect, the site was already dead before the spam and everyone fucking knew it. People were already using the site less and less, Hangouts had died out. The only reason spam even could take the site down was BECAUSE the entire community around the website had split up pretty much into tiny factions (Bossy and Seventh, REF and Wylted etc etc)
You spent too much time away from the site if you think the spam didn't worsen over time. Like I don't even know how to argue with you if you are this ignorant and stubborn about actual events lol.
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#32
Lunatic
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You don't get it. He would never say that is why. Qopel, me and so many others. You didn't even pay attention to the website outside of the forums section so you didn't NOTICE how many he wrongly banned as you never got to know them. I watched and got sick of what I was seeing.
Where's your proof for this deep airmax is evil conspiracy lol

#33
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@Lunatic
I have the proof, you have the lies. I do not owe you any proof. Where is your proof he's such a good guy or consistent applier of rules as a mod?
#34
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@Lunatic
Where is your proof that what you are aiming for in a justice system isn't literally corruption as an end-goal?
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#35
Lunatic
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@RationalMadman
Dude, you are simply trying to turn me attacking Airmax into you going 'but you're worse, who are you to talk?' or 'where's your proof?'. I do not care what you say, everyone who knows me on here knows I do not fucking lie about important statements on matters ever.

Well then you are very mis-understood. I would be open to hearing an open dialogue between you and airmax to call him out on this to his face though.

You can run around with your mafia mindset and lie to everyone like it's a game, this is not some playground bullshit but as it's an online forum you're free to pretend it is one, just leave the serious chat to people who know who to trust.
This makes no sense, and mafia has nothing to do with it. Also you clearly take the site too seriously. You act like some rebel freedom fighter.


I wonder why Airmax isn't coming here and defending himself, can you ask him to when you talk about your saber music battle?
Because everyone knows you are literally insane, it's why I generally don't respond to you. Don't know why I am bothering to do it now.

He will end up slipping up in ways you can't slip up on his behalf. I will make him admit things and say sorry, you just haven't understood him yet. You don't even know how manipulative he was behind the scenes so you can't talk on the matter and you're demanding proof on another account's PMs on DDO or on a Hangouts chat here or there. I don't care what you think you know about him, you were nowhere near close enough to him as a person to know him well. Even if you met him IRL, you didn't know him. He wears a carefully constructed mask and very few see through, but I do.
Alright, get max in a hangout or a debate and prove that he is some megaminded master villain lol. Your ridiculous.
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#36
Lunatic
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I have the proof, you have the lies. I do not owe you any proof. Where is your proof he's such a good guy or consistent applier of rules as a mod?

Your the one making the claims about airmax. You provide the burden of proof. This thread wasn't about airmax, you are just using it as a forum to vent your frustrations about when you were banned.
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#37
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@RationalMadman
Do you have anything relevant to the forum being discussed? Why not argue with me about why you think 7 days was a justifiable ban for supadudz, rather than turn this into a with hunt against a guy who barely touches this website and doesn't even interact with you anymore lol.
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#38
Lunatic
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@RationalMadman
Airmax isn't the mod anymore. He can't hurt you lol. For someone who constantly accuses everyone of being a bully, why are you bullying someone who hasn't talked to you in over a year? You constantly shit talk him despite him having no interaction with you lol. Hopefully he doesn't get one of these arbitrary restraining orders against you so you can't even mention his name without getting a 7 fucking day ban lol
#39
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But your okay with these threads because they are directed at you? How does this restraining order thing work?
Yes, if it's directed at mods, it is dismissed.

For RO's, the two parties cannot @each other, respond to one another's threads, vote on each other's debates or accept another's debates, PM each other, or interact in any other way
#40
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@Lunatic
I have no idea how severe Supa's violation was though, I had no idea he violated the RO until after he was banned
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#41
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@Speedrace
Yes, if it's directed at mods, it is dismissed.
So all it takes is the party receiving the insult being offended and telling the mod?

For RO's, the two parties cannot @each other, respond to one another's threads, vote on each other's debates or accept another's debates, PM each other, or interact in any other way

Do both parties have to agree to the RO or is it just decided by the mod that two fighting individuals are gonna be on an RO?
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#42
Lunatic
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One of the things I loved about Debate.org was the social implications of being able to argue  heatedly with someone one day, and agree with each other on something completely different a week later. It fostered an environment that encouraged open-mindedness, and an understanding that you can be friendly with someone even if you disagree with them on other topics. I feel like restraining orders with this severe of punishments kind of ruin that.
#43
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@Lunatic
So all it takes is the party receiving the insult being offended and telling the mod?
To be banned? No, you just report the post. If it's only once, it'll usually just be a warning. Multiple posts will result in either a hard warning or a ban, depending on how serious it was and how many prior times the offender has been warned/banned.

Do both parties have to agree to the RO or is it just decided by the mod that two fighting individuals are gonna be on an RO?
I think they both have to agree? I'm not 100% on that though
#44
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@Lunatic
No. You made it about Airmax. I stayed on topic.
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#45
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To be banned? No, you just report the post. If it's only once, it'll usually just be a warning. Multiple posts will result in either a hard warning or a ban, depending on how serious it was and how many prior times the offender has been warned/banned.
So that thread wylted posted was reported so many times, the report feature was literally turned off. So while it was directed at mods, the racist nature of it offended others. He wasn't banned. Supa was banned for 7 days over an RO that he says he didn't even know he had (maybe he lied or forgot) because of a Copypasta therealnihilist's argument. That one in particular seemed excessive. Also I've interacted with TheRealNihilist briefly, and yeah he didn't seem to be the most charming guy, but he must of threatened to kill someone's real mother or something if he was banned for 7 days and wylted's thread was ignored. 

BTW I am not saying wylted deserves to be banned or that supa or TRN don't deserve to be banned neccesarily, just wondering why the rules are so strict, or why they aren't in other cases, it seems their is some level of consideration put in or discussed about in some mod PM, but that's not so transparent publicly. I know you are just doing your job, maybe these rules were established by bsh1 ages ago, but with a new moderation team it's on you guys to give the rules clarity now, since bsh1 can't answer for them.
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#46
Lunatic
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@RationalMadman
You brought airmax up on post 9.

#47
Speedrace
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@Lunatic
So that thread wylted posted was reported so many times, the report feature was literally turned off. So while it was directed at mods, the racist nature of it offended others.
But it wasn't directed at them, hence he couldn't be banned for it

Not sure where Supa said he didn't know about the RO, but I know for a fact that he knew about it (him forgetting is certainly a possibility though)

Again, I had no idea he had even violated the RO until after he was banned, you should ask Ragnar or Virtuoso

I don't think the rules are strict at all, I do my best to give leniency and be fair to everyone. I did look over the Wylted situation and chose not to do anything about it because it didn't violate the COC. I don't foresee a change to the "attacking mods is ok" rule

Also, @ me next time lol
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#48
Lunatic
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@Speedrace
I have no idea how severe Supa's violation was though, I had no idea he violated the RO until after he was banned



This is the thread where he got banned. I am thinking a post got deleted or something, because I don't get it.
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#49
Lunatic
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So that thread wylted posted was reported so many times, the report feature was literally turned off. So while it was directed at mods, the racist nature of it offended others.
But it wasn't directed at them, hence he couldn't be banned for it


THE F- I literally asked you that:

So all it takes is the party receiving the insult being offended and telling the mod?
To be banned? No, you just report the post.

Topic's author
#50
Lunatic
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@Speedrace
oops
#51
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@Lunatic
This is the thread where he got banned. I am thinking a post got deleted or something, because I don't get it.
You'll have to ask someone else shrug

So that thread wylted posted was reported so many times, the report feature was literally turned off. So while it was directed at mods, the racist nature of it offended others.
But it wasn't directed at them, hence he couldn't be banned for it


THE F- I literally asked you that:

So all it takes is the party receiving the insult being offended and telling the mod?
To be banned? No, you just report the post.
I'm confused? I think you misunderstood what I said - reporting it doesn't guarantee that they'll be banned, just that we will review it. I was making a distinction between "telling the mod" and actually reporting the post

oops
lol
#52
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@Zaradi
Fan of the low-key call out. 
Thanks. He was a good choice as someone involved in this thread, who is unlikely to over-react to being named.

#53
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@Lunatic
I brought up Airmax to highlight an on-topic point.
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#54
Lunatic
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@RationalMadman
And you still haven't made a post explaining why you think 7 days are justified for "breaking an RO", you just made a blanket statement defending the mods and attacking a previous one.

I'm not attacking the mod who banned sup or TRN just was curious behind the logic that went into the decision of that lengthy of a ban over something that is arguably pretty trivial.
#55
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@Lunatic
Who implemented this dumb crap,
I don't know who implemented the first online RO... In our little sub-culture, there were some on DDO, but to my knowledge were not actually enforced. When the previous administration wrote the CoC and such, is probably what we're copy/pasting; but again, they did not seem to be enforced. As you can probably guess, I have a thing against RO's being issued but not enforced.

RO's are of course not a first or second option. Even for slip-ups banning is not the first resort. I'm big on telling people to chill out, and remind them of the CoC. 


and where can I petition against this?
Were I in your shoes, I'd write a better policy and relevant related material, and post it in the CoC Revisions thread. 


Why is debateart some large safe space?
It's not. The very nature of this site is all about the criticism of ideas.


I am totally understanding why this site is dead now lol. 
With how few RO's we've had, it's not that many less posts from avoided flamewars.
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#56
Lunatic
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As you can probably guess, I have a thing against RO's being issued but not enforced.
Why's that?


RO's are of course not a first or second option. Even for slip-ups banning is not the first resort. I'm big on telling people to chill out, and remind them of the CoC. 
What is an example of how far an argument would have to go for a restraining order? 

It's not. The very nature of this site is all about the criticism of ideas.With how few RO's we've had, it's not that many less posts from avoided flamewars.
The criticism of ideas can often lead to flame wars. Flamewars aren't necessarily a bad thing though, if it brings activity and discussion to a topic. I mean if someone starts doxxing someone over a dis-agreement, might be time to do something. But I don't see the harm in them otherwise.
#57
bmdrocks21
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What is a restraining order in the context of this site?
#58
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@Lunatic
Before I begin, thank you for the response in the CoC Revisions thread (we've had people start new threads for replies to things in the AMA when it was new; I'm still confused as to why). 


As you can probably guess, I have a thing against RO's being issued but not enforced.
Why's that?
In short: I hate lame double standards.

At length: So back on DDO this one creeper kept going thread to thread to commit off topic lies about my factual statements, then refused to just debate me when he outright asked me to initiate the challenge (he even got his friends to post in one of those about how unfair it was that I used objective reality against him; felt like high school dating drama), etc etc., eventually an RO was implemented. When the guy started blatantly violating it, first I tried messaging the moderator who was overseeing it, and when it continued unabated, I pointed to the RO as the reason for my silence (as opposed to him being right as he was inferring), I was told off by the moderator for violating it.


RO's are of course not a first or second option. Even for slip-ups banning is not the first resort. I'm big on telling people to chill out, and remind them of the CoC. 
What is an example of how far an argument would have to go for a restraining order? 
User X follows User Y around (not merely thread to thread, but forum to forum), explicitly to bring up the same old argument, no matter how off topic it is; add on a healthy dose of vile insults against their family members...

Just to be clear, any RO is going to be discussed by the moderation team prior to implementation. They are not done on impulse.


It's not. The very nature of this site is all about the criticism of ideas.With how few RO's we've had, it's not that many less posts from avoided flamewars.
The criticism of ideas can often lead to flame wars. Flamewars aren't necessarily a bad thing though, if it brings activity and discussion to a topic. I mean if someone starts doxxing someone over a dis-agreement, might be time to do something. But I don't see the harm in them otherwise.
I'm not someone who minds if discussions of a topic get heated, or if the people choosing to engage in the discussion aren't nice enough to each other. But let's say outside a mafia game we're discussing mafia game theory, and we both start just insulting each others families for whole pages of the topic. At least to me, the actual topical discussion is dead. Maybe someone could revive it, but with each repetition of Yo Mamma, such seems less likely.
#59
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@Lunatic
Where's your proof for this deep airmax is evil conspiracy lol

Most of his conspiracies are wrong, but not that one. 
#60
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@Lunatic
I am totally understanding why this site is dead now

LMAO what?