-->
@Stephen
I am not going to answer all your questions at once and hold 5 or more seperate conversations.
So if you want to talk about one subject at a time, I will do so.
Jesus is Lord?
Posts
Total:
251
-->
@Mopac
Nor does the dictionary define God as truth mister smarty pants.
-->
@ethang5
I'm with you, I think Jesus is Lord is the same as saying Jesus is God, it just makes a lot more sense.
Jesus is God does not divide God into two separate entities which has the advantage of avoiding any implications of polytheism.
-->
@Paul
Merriam webster
"capitalized : the supreme or ultimate reality"
The Truth means the same thing as The Ultimate Reality.
"...Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth..."
The Word of Truth being The Son, The Truth being The Father, and The Spirit of Truth being The Holy Ghost.
See how the three are actually one? The essence is The Truth.
So as worshippers of The Truth, our love of The Father is through The Son guided by The Holy Ghost.
So no, not polytheism. One God. The Truth.
-->
@Mopac
Here they are again. You will notice I add a question every time you fail to answer>>
(1) post 30
Is baptism a ritual of cleansing of one's sins?
(2) post 36
If God and Jesus are the same, having the same mind, knowledge and power, then why would Jesus beg himself in the garden of Gethsemane, to spare himself from having to be crucified? Furthermore, why would Jesus ask himself why he has forsaken himself by allowing himself to be crucified?
(3) post 38
John the Baptist died twice, how did that happen?
(4) post 46
Why didn't Jesus resurrect his cousin John the Baptist as he is said to have done so with his friend Lazarus?
(5) post 55
Why didn't Jesus cure leprosy instead of just the ten lepers in Luke's gospel ?
(6) post 59
Why did Mary salute Elizabeth? KJV Luke 1:40
(7) post 65
At the crucifixion of Jesus, all the other gospels have it that the women were standing and “looking from afar”, whereas John's gospel however has them within speaking distance. Which one is correct?
-->
@Paul
I'm with you, I think Jesus is Lord is the same as saying Jesus is God, it just makes a lot more sense.Jesus is God does not divide God into two separate entities which has the advantage of avoiding any implications of polytheism.
Exactly.
It also has the advantage of being just what the bible teaches. There is only one God. Always has been only one, and always will be only one.
Both. The women could move, they had legs and were not tied down.At the crucifixion of Jesus, all the other gospels have it that the women were standing and “looking from afar”, whereas John's gospel however has them within speaking distance. Which one is correct?
D'oh!!
-->
@Paul
I think Jesus is Lord is the same as saying Jesus is God
He was no more a god than your local priest. Come to that Jesus was no more a god than YOU! But Christians are entitled to their silly wishful thinking that this "Son of Man"JEWISH RABBI was a god. And, incidentally, it was only one person that claimed him to be "SON of a god" ,which is something else he himself never claimed to be either. In fact when it was suggested to him that he was the son of god, he told the teller, never to repeat it again.
-->
@Stephen
The same bible you quote as support calls Jesus God, using the word God, in both the old and new testaments. You cannot cherry-pick the verses sorry.
Jesus claimed to be Lord of the Sabbath, claimed to be able to forgave sin, and could change OT law. Jesus was God, the bible says so, and you cannot change that.
-->
@Stephen
Keep multiplying them
-->
@ethang5
Ok. Let me get this correct ethang5. You are saying Jesus is God. Yes or no?
You also tell us Jesus is Lord of Lords. Yes or no?
-->
@Stephen
What I say is immaterial. The bible says Jesus is God. I happen to agree.You are saying Jesus is God. Yes or no?
You also tell us Jesus is Lord of Lords. Yes or no?
The bible tells us that Jesus is the Lord of Lords. I just happen to know this is, in fact, true.
I believe the bible. I find it far, far more credible than you. So, to your questions, yes and yes.
Jesus is the King of Kings and the Lord of Lords, to whom every knee shall bow, and every tongue confess. Numerous uno. The Alpha and Omega. The big Kahuna. The Holy One. El Jefé. The Boss.
Any other questions?
-->
@ethang5
The bible says Jesus is God. I happen to agree.
I thought so.
The bible tells us that Jesus is the Lord of Lords. I just happen to know this is, in fact, true.I believe the bible. I find it far, far more credible than you. So, to your questions, yes and yes.
Thank you. Then I suggest you go back on this thread at least to post 50 and start reading what you in particular have wrote up until your post 66.. here is what you wrote;>
There is only one God. Always has been only one, and always will be only one.
?????
-->
@Stephen
When you can state a problem, I'll be willing to listen to it. Until then, you have a nice day hear?
-->
@ethang5
When you can state a problem, I'll be willing to listen to it. Until then, you have a nice day hear?
And when you can't point out your own glaring contradictions I will point them out for you. Until then, you too have a nice day Ethag5, may your lord of all other lords go with you.
There is only one God.
Not going by your own comments there isn't.
-->
@Stephen
Well I have news for you buddy. We can't see into your head. So until you mention a contradiction, there isn't one.And when you can't point out your own glaring contradictions I will point them out for you.
So as I said, when you can state a problem, I'll be willing to listen to it. Until then, you have a nice day hear?
-->
@Paul
It is meaningless. Jeus never existed except in peoples mind.
There is no records of any Jesus person outside of the Bible that is full of meaningless myths and a few good morals.
-->
@mustardness
Not true, believe it or not Jesus was and is a common name so the question then becomes which Jesus are you talking about?
-->
@Mopac
Wow! Really? And youlearned all that with just one book?
-->
@Mopac
Wow! Really? And you learned all that with just one book? Impressive.
-->
@Paul
I got better things to do and play these childish mind games with yet another bible thumper.Jesus are you talking about?
Best wishes in your mythical fantasy land.
-->
@Paul
The epistles are really the best writings in the bible for learning the faith, but you can spend an entire life studying the bible. I am very welll studied.
There are a lot of people who are very well studied too who have radically different views. For this reason, I try to break it down to the essence.
Christianity is Truth worship. It is all about the personal relationship one has with The Truth, and the entire discipline has to do with doing this more effectively.
-->
@ethang5
You are confused. The different gospel books are writing about the same story, not citing a new story.
No, it seems it is you and MARK who are confused and cannot get their story straight.They are not different writers to the main event. I only mentioned Matthew along with MARK concerning Johns perceived return because they both agree that Herod believed Jesus was John had come back i.e. “Risen from the dead”
It is you who is exceptionally confused. Iwill highlight for you the one single gospel of MARK!
But when Herod heard thereof, [Jesus] he said, It is John, whom I beheaded: he is risen from the dead. Mark 6:16.KJV.
So here at Mark 6:16KJV we have MARK telling us that Herod had beheaded JOHN and that Herod believedJesus was JOHN “risen from the dead”. SO HERE AT 6:16: JOHN IS DEAD!
And STAYING WITH the SAME gospel of MARK! It is not until we get to the Birthday party for HEROD at MARK 6:21 of THE SAME GOSPEL of MARK!!!!!! We find John tucked up in his cell for the night.
Read it for yourself ethang5 take particular note of V27, HERE>>>
21 And when a convenient day was come, that Herod on his birthdaymade a supper to his lords, high captains, and chief estates of Galilee;
22 the daughter of the said Herodias came in, and danced, and pleased Herod and them that sat with him, the king said unto the damsel, Ask of me whatsoever thou wilt, and I will give it thee.
23 And he sware unto her, Whatsoever thou shalt ask of me, I will give it thee, unto the half of my kingdom.
24 And she went forth, and said unto her mother, What shall I ask? And she said, The head of John the Baptist.
25 And she came in straightway with haste unto the king [HEROD], and asked, saying, I will that thou give me by and by in a charger the head of John the Baptist.
26 And the king [HEROD] was exceeding sorry; yet for his oath's sake, and for their sakes which sat with him, he would not reject her.
27 And immediately the king [HEROD] sent an executioner, and commanded his head to be brought:and he went and beheaded him in the prison,
28 And brought his head in a charger, and gave it to the damsel: and the damsel gave it to her mother.
-->
@ethang5
So until you mention a contradiction, there isn't one.
Ok. To those who are reading here. Read this exchange and spot the glaring contradiction between these two posters.
Post 50--> @ethang5
Jesus is referred toas the Lord of Lords. As in, the Lord to whom other Lords bow.
reader lease note "other lords" plural
Post 59--> @ethang5
I suspect Jesus waited for His mission to be completed and all things placed under Him to assume the title, Lord of Lords......
Again above we have the Plural " Lord of Lords"
Are you asking if Jesus is God? The answer is yes......
Here above we have ethan5 informing us that Jesus, lord of lords (plural)is also god.
Jesus is God, as such He is superior to everything and everyone,
And above, once more, he makes it perfectly clear to all those reading here that jesus is god.
Post 63 Paul to >.
Added: 09.13.18 10:13AM
--> @Paul wroteyou, I think Jesus is Lord is the same as saying Jesus is God, it just makes a lot more sense.Jesus is God does not divide God separate entities which has the advantage of avoiding any implications of polytheism.
"Avoiding polytheism" i.e.that there maybe more than one god.<<<<<< keep that in mind, reader.
and at Post 66--> @ethang5 agrees with Paul's deductions
Exactly.There is only one God. Always has been only one,and always will be only one.
Post 69 ethang5 wrote;
Jesus was God, the bible says so, and you cannot change that.
Paul at post 63 stumbles blindly into a contradiction. And at post 66 ethang5 simply contradicts himself and paul. Ethang at post 66 also has contradicted posts50&59&69
If as BOTH these members agree that Jesus = Lord + Lord of Lords and that the Lord Jesus is God this would, by default. mean that Jesus is god of gods PLURAL. But we have it above in many quotes from ethang5 that there is "ONLY ONE GOD"?
ethan5 appears to be a man who simply wants it both ways, a man who literally wants his cake and eat it.
UNLESS,of course, he reads and believes the Old Testament which clearly shows on many occasions that there are indeed more than “ONE GOD”. Second thoughts, that wouldn’t help him either, because he would have to retract his statement that “there is only one god”. Deary me, ethan5 is in a dilemma
-->
@Mopac
but you can spend an entire life studying the bible.
One can indeed. But you seem to be very shallow in what you have "studied".
I am very well studied.
Then I am sure you will agree that in this day and age of super technology , it is very hard to test someone's acclaimed knowledge on matters such as the Bible and religion as a whole, where answers to most of the common and obvious questions usually asked are at the end of a mouse for the one being questioned. Whereas the more deeper, better thought-out questions become far too deep & difficult for many christians to answer. There is also context that can become difficult.
I for example read the baptism of Jesus as a serious and perhaps deadly confrontation at the river Jordan between John and his cousin Jesus. Whereas someone like yourself beyond doubt reads it as you have been taught/told to read it , that being, John being submissive and believing himself someone not worthy to tie the sandals of Jesus.
Jesus never did explain where John had got his authority from , did he? Yet John continued to gather disciples of his own.
There are a lot of people who are very well studied too who have radically different views.
I believe I am one of those. I believe that the Christ ( christos = amointed) existed, I believe that he believed he was a rightful king AND priest, I believe he was of one of many noble bloodlines. I believe that if he was a messiah , he failed miserably at the mission of what was believed and expected of a messiah and I also believe there were more than one SO CALLED god who left this earth thousands of years ago.
I am not religious in the slightest . And I believe that some of these so called gods were more benevolent than others. This is why we can clearly see a difference between the so called god of the Old Testament & the New Testament. Is that radical enough for you.
-->
@Mopac
Christianity is Truth worship. It is all about the personal relationship one has with The Truth
Don't be so ridiculous!. Since when did Christianity or religion come to that, believe itself to have the monopoly on the truth. One doesn't have to be a Christian to understand and know what truth is. Atheists can be perfectly morally clean living and hold truth above all things.
You are just bible bashing once more and taking the religious moral high ground. You have no more understanding of the truth than does the truth of a wild animal who knows it can eat or be eaten.
-->
@Stephen
Stephen,
I will simply refuse to believe you could be this dumb. As such I must conclude that you either suffer from very poor reading comprehension, or you indeed are a troll using obtuseness as a trolling tool. Either way, I will help you.
In verse 16, John is already dead. That is why Herod says, "....whom I beheaded..." Past tense.
Now watch this, for this is where your ignorance kicks in.
Verse 17 then goes into the past, saying, "For Herod himself HAD SENT forth and LAID hold upon John and BOUND him in prison..."
Going into a "flashback" to explain why Herod was saying what he had. Do you understand what past tense is? So Herod thought it might be John come to life because he had already killed John. John was not alive in a cell, the Bible was going into the past, which is why it used the past tense through out.
Seriously, being obtuse is not an intelligent debate choice.
And obviously, no one has said "God of gods" except you. There is only one God. The phrase "Lord of Lords" does not contradict that there is only one God. The bible says God is one. So if you think "Lord of Lords" means "God of Gods", that is just your poor thinking, not my comment, and not the Bible's statement.
Work on your reading comprehension. Stop listening to whatever silly atheist website you're allowing to mislead you. And until you gain more knowledge, lose the militancy. Ignorance and militancy are an unfortunate mismatch.
Be well.
-->
@ethang5
the Bible was going into the past, which is why it used the past tense through out.
Why do that? It didn't need to use "past tense" at all. Your problem is that I have shown you a glaring anomaly and contradiction in Mark.
First you accused me of getting two gospels mixed up. When I showed you and proved to you that I wasn't and showed you the original written sequence in MARK , then, just as I expected, you come up with the BS excuse for this anomaly.
this is where your ignorance kicks in.......Verse 17 then goes into the past,You are confused. The different gospel books are writing about the same story, not citing a new story.
Now who is being IGNORANT!? THERE IS NO MARK 17!!!!!!!! NOW WHO IS "CONFUSING" TWO GOSPELS????
You are correct, I am not dumb. Any scribe worth his salt would not have started this story with a haunting. Why would Mark talk of a haunting well before John was dead. And IF there was a "verse 17" to the gospel of MARK what would be the point of writing of John's arrest AFTER the haunting and BEFORE John's beheading? Your excuse is utter rubbish and you are clutching at straws here, and you know it.
Surely, common sense would have the sequence _ John is arrested, John is beheaded and John haunts herod. AND NOT - John haunts Herod, John is beheaded and John is arrested? the sequence is backwards and inside out with absolutely no reason for it to be.
My point is - and you are well aware - is that the scriptures true or not, are a jumbled mess of vague half stories, anomalies, hints and contradictions that are confusing unless they are studied in depth and not just read and believed at first glance as you and many others seem to have done and do or simply because you have been told this is the truth.
I am not questioning your faith, I believe that you believe these sometimes strange anomalous and contradictive stories. This is not a personal attack on you or your faith, so try and separate the difference between me scrutinising and questioning the scriptures without calling me names and trying to have me down as a troll and of being obtuse, just because I see these scriptures from a different angle and point of view.. I am a thinker, I am a questioner, I am a scrutinizer and I do know the scriptures pretty well and i know they are a jumbled mess that have to be studied and scrutinized and simply not just believe through sheer faith. And YOU Christian, shouldn't hold that against me.
I simply do not accept your excuse for the great anomaly in Mark's gospel concerning Herod and the beheading of the Baptist. And you should accept that Marks version of events simply cannot be true.
-->
@mustardness
I'm sorry to disappoint you but I am NOT a religious person.
-->
@Stephen
That is how normal speech is.Why do that?
It didn't need to use "past tense" at all.
It did if the event is in the past. And it was. That you were too.... confused to see that is your fault. Normal language has past, present, and future tenses to indicate the time of the event being mentioned. Learn.
Your problem is that I have shown you a glaring anomaly and contradiction in Mark.
The only thing you have shown is that you don't know what past tense means in language. If Herod says, "whom I have beheaded", that means he has already beheaded him. Learn.
THERE IS NO MARK 17!!!!!!!!
Calm down. We were in Mark 16. And there is a Math 16.17. Read slowly. It will help your poor comprehension.
You are correct, I am not dumb.
Then you are being deliberately obtuse, something smart people do not do deliberately.
Why would Mark talk of a haunting well before John was dead.
John was dead Einstein, that is why Herod spoke in the past tense. Slow down and think a little. I promise it won't hurt you.
the sequence is backwards and inside out with absolutely no reason for it to be.
The only thing backwards is your reading comprehension. We have tenses in language so that we can talk about past or future events in the present. Verse 17 says, ""For Herod himself HAD SENT forth and LAID hold upon John and BOUND him in prison..." That is why Herod thought it might be a risen John, because he had already beheadED John. Maybe English is a second language for you?
I simply do not accept your excuse
There was no excuse. Tenses are normal, common, and correct to sensible people. Your calling it an excuse makes us doubt your claim of not being dumb.
for the great anomaly in Mark's gospel
There is no anamaly. You are confused and probably poorly educated. Speaking of a past event is not anamaly. It is normal usage.
concerning Herod and the beheading of the Baptist. And you should accept that Marks version of events simply cannot be true.
Marks version is true. That Mark starts talking about a past event using past tense confuses you, is your own poor reading comprehension. No one to blame but you.
I will continue to believe the Bible thank you. At least Mark knows that when past tenses are used, the events are in the past. You are free to believe whatever nonsense you like. Being deluded is not yet a crime.