I'm Pro Life: Change my Mind

Author: Our_Boat_is_Right

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SirAnonymous
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@disgusted
Try again. What right do you have to know what growth is being removed from her body?
Because that "growth" is a living human being, and people don't have the right to kill innocent human beings.

If I oppose bodily autonomy for the sole reason that I oppose abortion, then by the same logic women oppose their own bodily autonomy. If they don't oppose their own autonomy, then I don't oppose it either. Which is it?

SirAnonymous
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@disgusted
Do you support the death penalty?
Did you support the American wars in Iraq and Afghanistan?
I defend the rights of the innocent, not the guilty.
disgusted
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@SirAnonymous
Because that "growth" is a living human being, and people don't have the right to kill innocent human beings.
And how do you know that it's a fetus (not a living human being) and what gives you a right to invade a woman's body to make that determination? What invasion will you make for other growths? It's OK, I understand that these concepts are well beyond your capacity to comprehend.
If I oppose bodily autonomy for the sole reason that I oppose abortion, then by the same logic women oppose their own bodily autonomy. If they don't oppose their own autonomy, then I don't oppose it either. Which is it?
You don't understand your objection to abortion and don't understand the patriarchal system in which all American women are suppressed. I hope I've helped.

disgusted
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@SirAnonymous
Answer the question or prove that you are a lying hypocrite.
Oh my mistake, AND prove that you are a lying hypocrite
SirAnonymous
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@disgusted
And how do you know that it's a fetus (not a living human being) and what gives you a right to invade a woman's body to make that determination? 
I don't need to invade their bodies to find out that they're trying to remove a child. The very fact that they're seeking an abortion tells me that.
You don't understand your objection to abortion and don't understand the patriarchal system in which all American women are suppressed.
I don't understand my own objection? The great part about being a conservative is that you don't have to know what you believe because liberals will tell you.

Stop avoiding my question.
If I oppose bodily autonomy for the sole reason that I oppose abortion, then by the same logic the majority of women oppose their own bodily autonomy. If they don't oppose their own autonomy, then I don't oppose it either. Which is it?
SirAnonymous
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@disgusted
Answer the question or prove that you are a lying hypocrite.
If you're referring to the question about whether I oppose women's bodily issues or everyone's bodily autonomy, I have already answered it with neither. I have provided facts to prove it; you have merely repeated your baseless accusations and ignored my arguments.
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@SirAnonymous
I don't need to invade their bodies to find out that they're trying to remove a child. The very fact that they're seeking an abortion tells me that.
How do you know that said woman is seeking an abortion? If a woman uses a hospital how can you invade their body?
What do you do to decide that a woman is having a tumor removed, you deluded sub.


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@SirAnonymous
You wank around you don't answer.
Is it potential human life you are defending or are you claiming that you can remove a blastocyst and bring it to maturity?
SirAnonymous
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@disgusted
How do you know that said woman is seeking an abortion? If a woman uses a hospital how can you invade their body?
What do you do to decide that a woman is having a tumor removed, you deluded sub.
Different procedures have different names, and people have to tell the doctors what procedure they're there for. No invasion necessary.
SirAnonymous
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@disgusted
I have answered: neither.
I am defending existing human life. I have presented a strong case that the unborn are alive and human? Why don't you refute it?

Stop avoiding my question.
If I oppose bodily autonomy for the sole reason that I oppose abortion, then by the same logic the majority of women oppose their own bodily autonomy. If they don't oppose their own autonomy, then I don't oppose it either. Which is it?

disgusted
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@SirAnonymous
I don't understand my own objection?
Of course not. You're a godist aren't you?


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@SirAnonymous
Different procedures have different names, and people have to tell the doctors what procedure they're there for. No invasion necessary.
And what does that have to do with you?

disgusted
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@SirAnonymous
I am defending existing human life. I have presented a strong case that the unborn are alive and human? Why don't you refute it?
Because it has nothing to do with the question of a woman's right to bodily autonomy. How do you determine what a woman is having removed from her body and why should you have a say in it?


disgusted
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@SirAnonymous
If I oppose bodily autonomy for the sole reason that I oppose abortion, then by the same logic the majority of women oppose their own bodily autonomy. If they don't oppose their own autonomy, then I don't oppose it either. Which is it?
This question is as meaningless as it gets. You supporting the death penalty should be destroyed by ALL the  deathrow inmates, you wanker.
BTW do you support the death penalty?
SirAnonymous
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@disgusted
Of course not. You're a godist aren't you?
So you're capable of understanding religious people's objections, but they're incapable of doing that?
How do you determine what a woman is having removed from her body and why should you have a say in it?
Because in order for her to seek an abortion, she has to tell the doctor what operation she wants. I have a say in it for the same reason I have a say in outlawing other types of murder.
This question is as meaningless as it gets.
No. It refutes your accusation completely. Answer it.
BTW do you support the death penalty?
Irrelevant. I defend the innocent, not the guilty. There is no valid comparison between executing a murderer and saving the life of the innocent.
Our_Boat_is_Right
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@disgusted
I don't determine what a women is killing.  Science does.  Science says that is a living human being growing inside of the women.  Who gives her the right to murder another human being?  The picture I showed was not a tumor.  You have to be a fool to say that.  Please, backup your statement that this is not a human being with scientific facts.
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@SirAnonymous
Because in order for her to seek an abortion, she has to tell the doctor what operation she wants. I have a say in it for the same reason I have a say in outlawing other types of murder.

What say do you have when she is removing a tumor and how to you determine the difference? Oh that's right you have a greater right to a woman's bodily autonomy than she does.
<br>

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@Our_Boat_is_Right
In reality, somewhere beyond your understanding, the woman is removing a growth from her body, no killing involved. But you can keep masturbating about your religious beliefs.
bmdrocks21
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@disgusted
In Post#119 I said I reject the right of everyone to kill defenseless and innocent humans. That means that no matter the gender, or whether or not it is involved in human autonomy, I wouldn't allow it. 

Essentially, as soon as your bodily-autonomy actions interfere with the rights of someone else, that act wouldn't be allowed. Abortion infringes on the child's right to life, so it is not allowed.

So, I would reject either gender's "r1GhT" to bodily autonomy if it meant that their expression of it harmed someone else's life, liberty, or pursuit of happiness.

Also, as far as I know, the term 'bodily autonomy' and (right to) 'privacy' aren't even listed in the Constitution or any important document for our country.


I stated my position three times in a row. Hopefully that'll help it sink in for ya.....

SirAnonymous
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@disgusted
I don't have time to respond fully right now, but I do have a question: what's <br> mean?
SirAnonymous
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@disgusted
@bmdrocks21
I second bmdrock's comment.
Our_Boat_is_Right
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@disgusted
Nothing about this is religious.  Religion was not brought up once.  What I said was purely scientific.  It is a scientific fact that the fetus inside the women is a human life.  I thought leftists believe in climate change, how did you suddenly get all anti-science?
Our_Boat_is_Right
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@SirAnonymous
<br> is a glitch that has been going one, it is a problem with the coding.  It means line break.
Our_Boat_is_Right
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@disgusted
If you believe that picture of an aborted baby is a tumor, you are seriously messed up.  If you reject the scientific fact that an unborn baby is a human life, then when does life start and what magically happens to make it a life?
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@bmdrocks21
Also....You are forgetting that a sizable amount of women are against abortion as well. So should the elected politician completely ignore and refuse to represent those women? And yes, you don't need to be a slave to be involved in slavery. You also don't have to be a woman or aborted child to be involved in abortion. There are entire businesses, doctors, etc that stand to profit from it. 
<br>
I would say that all women have a participating voice in whatever sort of reproductive rights because such rights inherent effect them. 
I would say that businesses, doctors, etc are involved in the profit of abortion, not of abortion itself.

If you want to stray away from hypothetical situations, would you say that Sharia Law is a valid framework? One in which they abuse women and kill homosexuals? 
Absolutely. Your personal interpretation of a moral framework does not change its validity as a moral framework. Just like their interpretation of western treatment of gays and women does not change invalidate western moral frameworks.

But personhood means absolutely nothing! It is not based in any sort of science whatsoever. It is some arbitrary, fabricated concept that can be used to justify any human-rights abuse.
Personhood is a fairly well established concept that you seem to be arbitrarily ignoring just because it's inconvenient.

dustryder
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@Our_Boat_is_Right
That does not answer the question.  What are the characteristics of personhood?  At what point does one gain personhood?
I've already answered these questions. You won't get different responses if you keep asking. It is up to you to engage with my answers if you don't understand or disagree, not move on and then cycle back to the same questions as before which is what you seem to be doing

Our_Boat_is_Right
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@dustryder
You have not.  Not once.  If you truly did, then type it out again.  But you haven't.  Don't be foolish.

Our_Boat_is_Right
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@dustryder
You said you don't know when personhood starts and it can't be defined.  How then can you claim aborting unborn babies is ok because they don't have "personhood," but you yourself don't even know what personhood is?  When do you draw the line?

Answer these questions- Is it ok to abort a 1st trimester baby?
-Is it ok to abort a 2nd trimester baby?
-is it ok to abort a 3rd trimester baby?
-is it ok to kill a born baby?
dustryder
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@Our_Boat_is_Right
You said you don't know when personhood starts and it can't be defined.  How then can you claim aborting unborn babies is ok because they don't have "personhood," but you yourself don't even know what personhood is?
Not one word of this is true. I can't tell if you're maliciously misrepresenting me or too stupid to understand what I've written as it seems rather clear.

I said that there is no hard and fast rule as to when personhood starts. Meaning that if you ask anyone, they might give a different opinion. Each opinion is equally valid if it is justified in someway with respect to what personhood is. I can't know when personhood starts, I can only give my opinion as to when personhood starts.

I've already given a description of what personhood is. In fact I've given it twice when you prompted me twice for what personhood is. Again, maliciousness or plain stupidity?

When do you draw the line?
My personal threshold is viability. That is to say, abortions before this threshold should not be considered a moral quandary

Answer these questions- Is it ok to abort a 1st trimester baby?
-Is it ok to abort a 2nd trimester baby?
-is it ok to abort a 3rd trimester baby?
-is it ok to kill a born baby?
Yes to all of these. There are invariably going to be conditions where doing all of these is ok. Of course, such conditions become ever narrower and the moral considerations become ever higher.
Our_Boat_is_Right
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@dustryder
If it is truly your position that we can kill a born baby, then I have nothing more to discuss and we'll find no common ground.  Pretty disgusting you think you can murder a baby.