I'm Pro Life: Change my Mind

Author: Our_Boat_is_Right

Posts

Total: 500
#121
bmdrocks21
bmdrocks21's avatar
Debates: 6
Posts: 2,798
4
6
11
bmdrocks21's avatar
bmdrocks21
4
6
11
-->
@dustryder
Also....You are forgetting that a sizable amount of women are against abortion as well. So should the elected politician completely ignore and refuse to represent those women? And yes, you don't need to be a slave to be involved in slavery. You also don't have to be a woman or aborted child to be involved in abortion. There are entire businesses, doctors, etc that stand to profit from it. 

If you want to stray away from hypothetical situations, would you say that Sharia Law is a valid framework? One in which they abuse women and kill homosexuals? 

But personhood means absolutely nothing! It is not based in any sort of science whatsoever. It is some arbitrary, fabricated concept that can be used to justify any human-rights abuse.
#122
disgusted
disgusted's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 4,959
2
3
3
disgusted's avatar
disgusted
2
3
3
-->
@bmdrocks21
Question too hard for you? Typical.
#123
bmdrocks21
bmdrocks21's avatar
Debates: 6
Posts: 2,798
4
6
11
bmdrocks21's avatar
bmdrocks21
4
6
11
-->
@disgusted
Nope. I restrict rights for when you harm others, which applies to both genders. Answer too complex for you? Typical.
#124
disgusted
disgusted's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 4,959
2
3
3
disgusted's avatar
disgusted
2
3
3
-->
@bmdrocks21
That answer is nonsensical drivel.
Do you reject everyone's right to bodily autonomy or just a woman's right?
#125
bmdrocks21
bmdrocks21's avatar
Debates: 6
Posts: 2,798
4
6
11
bmdrocks21's avatar
bmdrocks21
4
6
11
-->
@disgusted
How can I spell it out for you so that you will understand basic answers?

Give me a list of issues, if you'd like to hear my opinion on them.
#126
disgusted
disgusted's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 4,959
2
3
3
disgusted's avatar
disgusted
2
3
3
-->
@bmdrocks21
Still can't answer? Are you a wingnut?
#127
bmdrocks21
bmdrocks21's avatar
Debates: 6
Posts: 2,798
4
6
11
bmdrocks21's avatar
bmdrocks21
4
6
11
-->
@disgusted
I gave a simple answer to a deceptive question. Don't be obtuse.

Being against child murder doesn't have any relation to bodily autonomy.
#128
SirAnonymous
SirAnonymous's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 4,140
3
7
10
SirAnonymous's avatar
SirAnonymous
3
7
10
-->
@disgusted
People like you are one of the biggest reasons Trump was elected (Disclaimer: I don't support Trump). You disagree about abortion? You think women are second-class citizens who don't deserve the same rights as men! You want immigration to be legal? You're a racist! You don't think men can become women? You're a bigot! (I'm speaking in generalizations. I'm not saying that you believe any of these things, except the one about about abortion because you said that yourself, though in different words.)
The point is that many people are sick and tired of self-righteous liberals who condemn everyone who disagrees as a bad person, rather than just a person with bad ideas. Pro-life people don't oppose women's bodily autonomy; they believe that the unborn is a different body entirely. Now, you can say, "That's nonsense! Fetuses are part of the woman's body!" or "It's in the woman's body, so it's her choice." Consequently, people who oppose abortion oppose bodily autonomy. However, that would only be true if they agreed with you on those things. Let me use an analogy to show what I mean.
Suppose there was this guy who said the earth was flat, and someone accused him of lying. The flat-earther replied, "I'm not lying. I really believe the earth is flat." Even though he would be wrong, that would not make him a liar; he's just ignorant and misguided. If we pro-lifers are wrong, the same is true of us. We don't oppose bodily autonomy; we just mistakenly think that the unborn is a different body (assuming we're wrong for the sake of argument).
Of course, you can refuse to accept this and desperately cling to your belief that those who disagree with you must somehow be sexist and hateful and oppose bodily autonomy. If so I have a simple question for you: according to gallup, 51% of women consider themselves to be pro-life.
Do they oppose their own bodily autonomy and consider themselves to be second-class citizens? If not, then how can you logically maintain that men who oppose abortion do think those things? If you do think that pro-life women don't think they're second-class citizens but pro-life men do, then why does the difference in their chromosomes and genitals change the logic of the situation?

#129
bmdrocks21
bmdrocks21's avatar
Debates: 6
Posts: 2,798
4
6
11
bmdrocks21's avatar
bmdrocks21
4
6
11
-->
@SirAnonymous
Good points.

However, I wouldn't waste my time on him if I were you. He got a 90 day ban for being verbally abusive, and he is a troll that never adds anything substantive to the conversation.

Also, I had no clue the majority of women were pro-life and men were pro-choice. That must be new.
#130
SirAnonymous
SirAnonymous's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 4,140
3
7
10
SirAnonymous's avatar
SirAnonymous
3
7
10
-->
@bmdrocks21
It is new. The same page includes polls from previous years if you scroll down, and this is the first year that the majority of women said they were pro-life. I actually didn't know it either until I looked it up to refute his accusation. Last I heard, only 48% of women said they were pro-life.
Topic's author
#131
Our_Boat_is_Right
Our_Boat_is_Right's avatar
Debates: 16
Posts: 334
2
3
10
Our_Boat_is_Right's avatar
Our_Boat_is_Right
2
3
10
-->
@bmdrocks21
Haha he keeps dodging your answer lmao
Topic's author
#132
Our_Boat_is_Right
Our_Boat_is_Right's avatar
Debates: 16
Posts: 334
2
3
10
Our_Boat_is_Right's avatar
Our_Boat_is_Right
2
3
10
-->
@dustryder
No one decides on personhood. Personhood is the all encompassing label of what a person is.
That does not answer the question.  What are the characteristics of personhood?  At what point does one gain personhood?


Topic's author
#133
Our_Boat_is_Right
Our_Boat_is_Right's avatar
Debates: 16
Posts: 334
2
3
10
Our_Boat_is_Right's avatar
Our_Boat_is_Right
2
3
10
-->
@disgusted

Congratulations.  You just affirmed a women's right to choose.
#134
bmdrocks21
bmdrocks21's avatar
Debates: 6
Posts: 2,798
4
6
11
bmdrocks21's avatar
bmdrocks21
4
6
11
-->
@Our_Boat_is_Right
Yeah, I give him my stance for every bodily autonomy-related issue and he says I am not answering him lol.
#135
disgusted
disgusted's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 4,959
2
3
3
disgusted's avatar
disgusted
2
3
3
-->
@bmdrocks21
You haven't yet said whether you support the right to bodily autonomy for:
A) Men
B) Women

Yeah, I give him my stance for every bodily autonomy-related issue and he says I am not answering him lol.
Post number?
#136
disgusted
disgusted's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 4,959
2
3
3
disgusted's avatar
disgusted
2
3
3
-->
@SirAnonymous
Pro-life people don't oppose women's bodily autonomy;
Is a lie. The misnamed "pro-lifers" entire argument is that women do not have bodily autonomy, they are not permitted to have an unwanted growth removed from their body because some primitive ignorant superstitious savage makes absurd rules.
You believe you have a right over women's bodies.
Do you support the death penalty?
Did you support the American wars in Iraq and Afghanistan?
<br>

Topic's author
#137
Our_Boat_is_Right
Our_Boat_is_Right's avatar
Debates: 16
Posts: 334
2
3
10
Our_Boat_is_Right's avatar
Our_Boat_is_Right
2
3
10
-->
@disgusted
Did you watch the video?  Do you call that child being ripped apart an "unwanted growth?"  Just disgusting you would say that.  You are supporting the murder of an innocent human being.  And somehow a women's convenience is more valuable than another human's life that you would murder it?  Despicable, just absolutely disgusting.
#138
disgusted
disgusted's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 4,959
2
3
3
disgusted's avatar
disgusted
2
3
3
-->
@Our_Boat_is_Right
Don't get all emotional, that's banned in rightland. There are no human beings being murdered in abortion, a woman has a right to her bodily autonomy........end of story.
Wanna try answering #136?
Topic's author
#139
Our_Boat_is_Right
Our_Boat_is_Right's avatar
Debates: 16
Posts: 334
2
3
10
Our_Boat_is_Right's avatar
Our_Boat_is_Right
2
3
10
-->
@disgusted
Everything what I said is factual.  It is factual that there is a human life inside the women.  That is scientific.  There is a living human being inside.  No one has the right to kill that.  No one.  No one has the right to choose this- 
Topic's author
#140
Our_Boat_is_Right
Our_Boat_is_Right's avatar
Debates: 16
Posts: 334
2
3
10
Our_Boat_is_Right's avatar
Our_Boat_is_Right
2
3
10

No one.
#141
disgusted
disgusted's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 4,959
2
3
3
disgusted's avatar
disgusted
2
3
3
-->
@Our_Boat_is_Right
What other growths do you want to deny a woman removing from her body? What does the body of any woman have to do with you?
Topic's author
#142
Our_Boat_is_Right
Our_Boat_is_Right's avatar
Debates: 16
Posts: 334
2
3
10
Our_Boat_is_Right's avatar
Our_Boat_is_Right
2
3
10
-->
@disgusted
Keep avoiding the facts.  This is not the body of a women.  This is the body of an innocent child.  Why do you keep refusing to accept the scientifically proven fact that this is a human life?
#143
SirAnonymous
SirAnonymous's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 4,140
3
7
10
SirAnonymous's avatar
SirAnonymous
3
7
10
-->
@disgusted
Is a lie. The misnamed "pro-lifers" entire argument is that women do not have bodily autonomy, they are not permitted to have an unwanted growth removed from their body because some primitive ignorant superstitious savage makes absurd rules.
You believe you have a right over women's bodies.
Do you support the death penalty?
Did you support the American wars in Iraq and Afghanistan?
<br>
It is not a lie. You did not refute a single thing I said. Pro-lifers have never once argued that women don't have bodily autonomy, and I know that I don't have a right over women's bodies. Again:   
People like you are one of the biggest reasons Trump was elected (Disclaimer: I don't support Trump). You disagree about abortion? You think women are second-class citizens who don't deserve the same rights as men! You want immigration to be legal? You're a racist! You don't think men can become women? You're a bigot! (I'm speaking in generalizations. I'm not saying that you believe any of these things, except the one about about abortion because you said that yourself, though in different words.)
The point is that many people are sick and tired of self-righteous liberals who condemn everyone who disagrees as a bad person, rather than just a person with bad ideas. Pro-life people don't oppose women's bodily autonomy; they believe that the unborn is a different body entirely. Now, you can say, "That's nonsense! Fetuses are part of the woman's body!" or "It's in the woman's body, so it's her choice." Consequently, people who oppose abortion oppose bodily autonomy. However, that would only be true if they agreed with you on those things. Let me use an analogy to show what I mean.
Suppose there was this guy who said the earth was flat, and someone accused him of lying. The flat-earther replied, "I'm not lying. I really believe the earth is flat." Even though he would be wrong, that would not make him a liar; he's just ignorant and misguided. If we pro-lifers are wrong, the same is true of us. We don't oppose bodily autonomy; we just mistakenly think that the unborn is a different body (assuming we're wrong for the sake of argument).
Of course, you can refuse to accept this and desperately cling to your belief that those who disagree with you must somehow be sexist and hateful and oppose bodily autonomy. If so I have a simple question for you: according to gallup, 51% of women consider themselves to be pro-life.
Do they oppose their own bodily autonomy and consider themselves to be second-class citizens? If not, then how can you logically maintain that men who oppose abortion do think those things? If you do think that pro-life women don't think they're second-class citizens but pro-life men do, then why does the difference in their chromosomes and genitals change the logic of the situation?
Tell me: do the majority of women believe they don't have bodily autonomy? Your accusations are blatantly ridiculous.
#144
disgusted
disgusted's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 4,959
2
3
3
disgusted's avatar
disgusted
2
3
3
-->
@SirAnonymous
A woman undergoes a procedure to remove a growth from her body, any growth, what gives you the right to invade her body to determine the nature of that growth? Oh that's right according to you she has no right to bodily autonomy.
The result of your actions denies your claim that you don't deny a woman's bodily autonomy. A blastocyst is not a baby, just stop lying.
#145
disgusted
disgusted's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 4,959
2
3
3
disgusted's avatar
disgusted
2
3
3
-->
@Our_Boat_is_Right
You can't get to the foetus (not child) without invading the woman's authority.
Topic's author
#146
Our_Boat_is_Right
Our_Boat_is_Right's avatar
Debates: 16
Posts: 334
2
3
10
Our_Boat_is_Right's avatar
Our_Boat_is_Right
2
3
10
-->
@disgusted
I don't care about word games.  You can look it up, fetus means small child in latin.

The women does not have the authority to murder a human being.  What gives her the authority to murder another life?
#147
SirAnonymous
SirAnonymous's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 4,140
3
7
10
SirAnonymous's avatar
SirAnonymous
3
7
10
-->
@disgusted
Refute what I said:


It is not a lie. You did not refute a single thing I said. Pro-lifers have never once argued that women don't have bodily autonomy, and I know that I don't have a right over women's bodies. Again:   
People like you are one of the biggest reasons Trump was elected (Disclaimer: I don't support Trump). You disagree about abortion? You think women are second-class citizens who don't deserve the same rights as men! You want immigration to be legal? You're a racist! You don't think men can become women? You're a bigot! (I'm speaking in generalizations. I'm not saying that you believe any of these things, except the one about about abortion because you said that yourself, though in different words.)
The point is that many people are sick and tired of self-righteous liberals who condemn everyone who disagrees as a bad person, rather than just a person with bad ideas. Pro-life people don't oppose women's bodily autonomy; they believe that the unborn is a different body entirely. Now, you can say, "That's nonsense! Fetuses are part of the woman's body!" or "It's in the woman's body, so it's her choice." Consequently, people who oppose abortion oppose bodily autonomy. However, that would only be true if they agreed with you on those things. Let me use an analogy to show what I mean.
Suppose there was this guy who said the earth was flat, and someone accused him of lying. The flat-earther replied, "I'm not lying. I really believe the earth is flat." Even though he would be wrong, that would not make him a liar; he's just ignorant and misguided. If we pro-lifers are wrong, the same is true of us. We don't oppose bodily autonomy; we just mistakenly think that the unborn is a different body (assuming we're wrong for the sake of argument).
Of course, you can refuse to accept this and desperately cling to your belief that those who disagree with you must somehow be sexist and hateful and oppose bodily autonomy. If so I have a simple question for you: according to gallup, 51% of women consider themselves to be pro-life.
Do they oppose their own bodily autonomy and consider themselves to be second-class citizens? If not, then how can you logically maintain that men who oppose abortion do think those things? If you do think that pro-life women don't think they're second-class citizens but pro-life men do, then why does the difference in their chromosomes and genitals change the logic of the situation?
Tell me: do the majority of women believe they don't have bodily autonomy? Your accusations are blatantly ridiculous.
#148
disgusted
disgusted's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 4,959
2
3
3
disgusted's avatar
disgusted
2
3
3
-->
@SirAnonymous
Tell me: do the majority of women believe they don't have bodily autonomy? Your accusations are blatantly ridiculous
Tell me why you believe you have the right to deny all women their right to bodily autonomy, what they believe is irrelevant when compared to your desire to deny them that right.


A woman undergoes a procedure to remove a growth from her body, any growth, what gives you the right to invade her body to determine the nature of that growth? Oh that's right according to you she has no right to bodily autonomy.
The result of your actions denies your claim that you don't deny a woman's bodily autonomy. A blastocyst is not a baby, just stop lying.
Got an answer?
#149
SirAnonymous
SirAnonymous's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 4,140
3
7
10
SirAnonymous's avatar
SirAnonymous
3
7
10
-->
@disgusted
Tell me why you believe you have the right to deny all women their right to bodily autonomy, what they believe is irrelevant when compared to your desire to deny them that right.
It isn't irrelevant what they think because they completely refutes your accusation. If I oppose bodily autonomy for the sole reason that I oppose abortion, then by the same logic they oppose their own bodily autonomy. If they don't oppose their own autonomy, then I don't oppose it either. Which is it?
A blastocyst is not a baby, just stop lying
You have provided exactly zero evidence to believe this. They have their own unique DNA that has already determined their hair color, eye color, bone density, fingerprints, etc. They are separate from the mother's blood system. Thus, they are separate from the mother and are not just a growth as you falsely claim. They are neither dead nor inanimate, so they are alive. Therefore, they are a distinct living human. Since they are not adults, they are children. As a result, opposing abortion does not oppose women's bodily autonomy because the child is not her body, so it should not be her choice to kill it.
Now that I have answered your question, answer mine: Do the majority of women oppose their own bodily autonomy?
#150
disgusted
disgusted's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 4,959
2
3
3
disgusted's avatar
disgusted
2
3
3
-->
@SirAnonymous
You see you just keep talking about after you have invaded the woman's rights.

A woman undergoes a procedure to remove a growth from her body, any growth, what gives you the right to invade her body to determine the nature of that growth? Oh that's right according to you she has no right to bodily autonomy.
The result of your actions denies your claim that you don't deny a woman's bodily autonomy.
Try again. What right do you have to know what growth is being removed from her body?

Do you support the death penalty?
Did you support the American wars in Iraq and Afghanistan?