-->
@Greyparrot
I'm not sure why you are linking that. It doesn't seem relevant to the discussion we were having.
Socialism is inevitable in the united states
Posts
Total:
58
-->
@Greyparrot
funny how certain people accept polls that fit their narrative but deny yours. Seems there is a desire for school choice, charter schools, vouchers etc, I wonder why if the public system is so great. Then there's the private schools. Heck when people who aren't even religious would rather send their children to a catholic school, that should tell people something.
Yet they never, never advocate schools to be ran like they are in China.
they either are ignorant so blind to the reality of what states do and have attempted to do for the "greater good" Lets not forget the soda tax and banning of large drinks for example. That's lack of freedom, choice. What hypocritical irony, my choice my body only applies to killing babies not obesity or sugar. Yet they can't fathom why we are against socialism. They can't wrap their tiny minds around the fact that at some point be taking away something they want or value. Same reason why all speech must be protected because eventually it will be your speech next. They are painfully short sighted.
-->
@TheDredPriateRoberts
funny how certain people accept polls that fit their narrative but deny yours. Seems there is a desire for school choice, charter schools, vouchers etc, I wonder why if the public system is so great.
No one has ever said that choice should be removed. The idea is to make sure that everyone has access to education. If you can afford to send your kid to a private or specialist school, that's fine. But it is unacceptable to any child to be denied an education. Healthcare should be the same. If you want to spend a pile of money to go to some specialist somewhere that is fine. But no one should ever be denied healthcare and no one should have to go bankrupt to get it.
Medicare for all is the best of both worlds. You have the freedom to pick the doctor or hospital you want, but you don't have to worry about going bankrupt or being unable to afford care. You get the choice you need and avoid the horrible downsides of the current system.
-->
@TheDredPriateRoberts
More importantly, if government-run institutions were so great, why do so many Democrat politicians come from private schools and have never set foot in a public school?
Why are no Congressmen on Obamacare?
-->
@Greyparrot
More importantly, if government-run institutions were so great, why do so many Democrat politicians come from private schools and have never set foot in a public school?
Because the leaders of both political parties tend to be rich. And the rich love the prestige of coming from an exclusive private school. Have you seen how often trump brags about his private school? It isn't about the quality of the education. It is the exclusiveness. It shows you are rich and connected.
Why are no Congressmen on Obamacare?
Because Obamacare was designed to help poor people without insurance. Congressmen aren't poor and they had insurance. Luckily, medicare for all will put congressmen and farmers on the exact same healthcare.
Because the leaders of both political parties tend to be rich. And the rich love the prestige of coming from an exclusive private school. Have you seen how often trump brags about his private school? It isn't about the quality of the education. It is the exclusiveness. It shows you are rich and connected.
The true rich and connected are the administrators of public schools who receive double the money per student than private schools.
In 34 states, the average private school cost is less than the average annual per-pupil public school expenditure.
Government red tape is very costly.
-->
@Greyparrot
The true rich and connected are the administrators of public schools who receive double the money per student than private schools.
My point is that the it isn't the quality of the education that draws them to that school. It is the exclusivity and prestige that comes from being a graduate. If you go to Yale or Harvard and got shit marks, you are better off then being the top student at a small college. It isn't about whether public schools are good or not. Anyone can get into a public school so rich connected people don't want to go there.
-->
@HistoryBuff
Really? They don't go to private colleges for the education?
Then why are the top rated colleges private?
(I stopped looking after top 13 all being private institutions, but I'm sure it goes further)
-->
@bmdrocks21
Really? They don't go to private colleges for the education?
I think you are just intentionally missing my point. So I will remind you that the discussion of schools was just as an example for how we already have public services like medicare for all.
The large majority of americans would love a medicare for all style system. Populism is the wave of the future. Trump himself ran as a populist who promised that he would get healthcare for all americans. He promptly forgot about that after getting elected, but he knows that it is popular. There is a reason that all of the dem candidates need to include this stuff even though 75% of them wish they didn't have to.
That is where the country is going.
-->
@HistoryBuff
Yeah, but it isn't like your medicare for all plan. Private and public schools teach the same things but with different quality. The way your healthcare plan would work would prevent private companies from covering the same things. It would be like Medicare choice, perhaps?
The polls say that people would like universal healthcare. They overwhelming support also having private insurance as an option.
-->
@Greyparrot
I saw the title. Just gonna guess the vast majority, if not all, are Democrat-run.
Edit: yup
-->
@bmdrocks21
Most importantly, these are cities with a massive proportion of government-run services per capita.
More government means more corruption and more malaise.
-->
@Greyparrot
Yeah, it really confuses me how Bernie Sanders complains about the corruption in Washington..... then talks about how we need to give more power to Washington...
How about we take the power away so their corruption doesn't screw with our lives?
The lessened incentive to be corrupt is just a bonus at that point.
-->
@bmdrocks21
Yeah, but it isn't like your medicare for all plan. Private and public schools teach the same things but with different quality. The way your healthcare plan would work would prevent private companies from covering the same things.
Medicare for all would cover everything. So there is no question about quality. it is, by definition, the very highest quality possible.
The polls say that people would like universal healthcare. They overwhelming support also having private insurance as an option.
That is because people don't understand that universal healthcare with private insurance as an option, is basically going to destroy universal healthcare. The way it will play out is like this.
1) government and private healthcare options would be given.
2) sick and poor people will go for the public option as private companies wont want to insure them. Rich and healthy people will go for the private option.
- the private options will be able to be cheaper because they won't have to pay for any sick people.
3) this will force the costs of the public option way up, because they won't be taking in the profits from the healthy people but they will take on all the costs of the sick people
4) the public option will implode and republicans will point to it as evidence that government healthcare doesn't work putting us right back where we started.
If you want a universal healthcare, it needs to be universal. The public system needs the profits as well as the costs. If you allow private companies to skim off all the profits and leave all the costs for the government, you are guaranteeing it will never work.
-->
@bmdrocks21
Washington D.C. is the most dysfunctional dystopia in the entire country, with 90% registered Democrats.
-->
@HistoryBuff
which public schools are denying entrance?
why were catastrophic plans made "illegal" essentially, by Obama?
why can't state Medicaids act as catastrophic insurances so it doesn't bankrupt people?
why can't organizations like The Bradly Free clinic be helped financially?
why haven't any of these things been done if it really is about providing healthcare to people?
why do we need medicare for all when these ideas and more will prevent medical bankruptcies and people can get the care they need?
have any of these been done?
if not why not?
what stops a state from doing these things on their own?
-->
@Greyparrot
they get and keep the best of benefits, security etc and we essentially get the left overs.
-->
@HistoryBuff
If you are going to give the best quality, the costs would be unimaginably high. Quality of care and price are inversely correlated. And you are proposing a plan in which I have to pay for others' bad life choices. Why is that fair? If someone doesn't exercise, smokes, and eats McDonald's every day, I will have to pay for their negligent life choices?
So, you think that the people are informed enough to think that universal healthcare is a good idea, but when they disagree and want private care it is because they are uninformed? You have to pick one. Do the polls matter or not?
Well, hospitals often lose money on Medicaid and Medicare patients. They use private companies to get that money back. That is why it is so expensive to get private insurance plans. That and all of the regulations. Perhaps if the Democrats allowed for competition, we wouldn't have this mess on our hands.
-->
@Greyparrot
this is kook stuff not mainstream
-->
@HistoryBuff
the majority of milenials support some sort of socialsim social democracy. some are even flirting with communism(which even i think is whacked) but they are angr as a wet cat in novemeber
-->
@PaulVerliane
he majority of milenials support some sort of socialsim social democracy.
Yeah this is one of the interesting dynamics. Republicans are having a hard time attracting younger voters. Right wing ideas simply haven't worked. More and more young people are looking for extreme answers. That is one of the reasons trump won. He portrayed himself as a populist that would solve the problems. He even promised to get all Americans healthcare. Of course he was lying, but he did promise these things.
Now that trump has proven that the right simply can't or won't solve the problems they were heavily involved in creating, it is pushing more and more young people toward the left. It will be interesting to see how the dynamics change over the next few cycles as millennials become the largest voting block.
-->
@HistoryBuff
people are angry, i never thought i'd hear the word socialism uttered by mainstream politicians, for me its a sort of redemption people literally thought i was psychotic when i started babbling about socialism 40 years ago it was a dying ideology it was dead and never coming back.. guess what the fool on the hill? he sees the world spinning round and round and round
-->
@PaulVerliane
Agreed. I'm not sure I would say it is inevitable. Nothing in history is ever certain. Random chance plays a bigger role in events that you would hope. It's possible something unforeseen could occur. For example the republican party deciding trump should rule for life and making america into a dictatorship. I don't think it is likely, but with how hard the republicans are working to pretend like trump hasn't committed crimes when they all know he has does not inspire confidence they would stop him.
However, barring something like that you are probably right. Basically all the democratic candidates were pushing some level of socialist policy. Maybe not some of the 1%ers but they don't matter.
Even trump threw populist and even some socialist promises into his campaign. The people want their government to actually do something to fix the country's problems. The republicans haven't come up with a new idea for decades. They just keep trying the same failed ideas over and over and pretending like they are working. The dems tried to become more like the republicans and have also failed massively. Socialism is where all the energy is at the moment. I don't see any democrat winning without being more socialist.
-->
@HistoryBuff
people are angry to say inequality isnt an issue is to ignore reality
-->
@PaulVerliane
people are angry to say inequality isnt an issue is to ignore reality
True, but it does depend on how you spin it. There is still a solid chunk of the american populace that thinks the "american dream" is still a real thing. They honestly believe that with hard work anyone can be a millionaire. Which is obviously nonsense, but they don't see it. For those people, they really don't care about inequality.
There is also a reasonably large chunk that like the current inequality. People in the upper middle class and above like the way things are now. They were able to succeed in the current broken system, so they don't see the problems, or if they do, they simply don't care because they benefited from them.
Then there are the people who just don't pay enough attention or understand. Some people honestly think that if you just make the rich people even richer, then somehow that will make everyone better off. Trickle down economics fooled alot of people. Thankfully this group seems to be getting smaller.
So you see, there is still a path to electoral success by playing off people who either don't see the problems, don't understand the solution, or actually like the broken system. But as millennials start to replace the Boomers and the largest voting block that path is getting smaller every year.
-->
@HistoryBuff
smaller every day and that "solid" chunk is aging its aging , in fact its dying of old age, so ha ha ha we will bury you when you die of old age tovarishch https://www.axios.com/exclusive-poll-young-americans-embracing-socialism-b051907a-87a8-4f61-9e6e-0db75f7edc4a.html that chunk is aging