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@Greyparrot
Yeah that's a good point... let's see what PressF has to say and go from there
Office Mafia DP4
Posts
Total:
120
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@Greyparrot
I'm worried by your tunneling on Lunatic. I don't think he's scum
I'm going to sleep though so cya
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@Speedrace
Honestly I didn't really think of it til later on. Early on I dismissed Airmax as town because of the result until I thought about it more.This is a really good point...I wish you had said this last DP
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@Greyparrot
I've destroyed this argument so many times, that it's pretty annoying your still convincing yourself of this garbage.Easy. He somehow convinced town that Drafter was scum for lynching 2 scum. You do NOT have to overanalyze this. Just eliminate Luna, call it POE call it whatever, just do it.
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@airmax1227
What is it that you actually town read me for? I guess I am missing it. If you think you "should" be lynching me because I didn't participate on the SA lynch that you participated on for the wrong reasons and were conveniently right about or that I barely won out on a lynch on drafter that my hand was pretty forced on because of people sheeping (AROSE, wylted, greyparrot). If you "should" be on me why aren't you?I'm not going to OMGUS you, but the arguments Lunatic have made so far in this game have all been wrong... DP1 he tried to sway the lynch away from SA... he, like I, missed DP2... And in DP3 he built the wagon on Drafter... Now, traditionally I might be saying that we should lynch him for this, but I'm not. Again I am not saying we should lynch lunatic. Instead what I am saying is that we shouldn't buy anything he says in regards to whom we should lynch. So I implore you to reconsider listening to him about FOSing me now.
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@airmax1227
Can you say what specifically was poor about my play? Just saying I was wrong about drafter and didn't participate on a scum lynch isn't scummy by itself. Assuming I am town I wouldn't know the affiliations of either of those idividuals. All I have is the logic I used about behavior, and so far no one has tried to prove that wrong. Town can be wrong but for the right reasons.while Lunatic is definitely scummy, I don't see this as his scum play, but as his poor town play...
Point behind all of this is that you actually read me town even though to you I am behaving scummy... It seems to me that if I get lynched and flip innocent you want to give yourself some town cred for strongly considering the possibility I was town. The read on me seems manufactured my friend.
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@Lunatic
If you "should" be on me why aren't you?
There's no point at which I said we "Should" be lynching you. In fact, I am saying the opposite of that. I'm really confused at the motivation of this (aside from putting the suspicion on me instead of you, which I get - but I'm the only true believer in your cause at the moment, so I'd tread carefully)... If you are assuming that I'm saying we should be lynching you, are you saying that I'm scummy for not pushing your lynch? What is even the point of what you just said?
My response was to Speed, who then reconsidered his vote. If you think what I said wasn't convincing of anything, you should probably be talking to him.
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@Lunatic
Can you say what specifically was poor about my play? Just saying I was wrong about drafter and didn't participate on a scum lynch isn't scummy by itself.
The results were poor, and that is why you find yourself as the #1 lynch target this DP.
Assuming I am town I wouldn't know the affiliations of either of those idividuals. All I have is the logic I used about behavior, and so far no one has tried to prove that wrong. Town can be wrong but for the right reasons.
Don't have to convince me, I'm one of the few people in your corner at the moment.
It seems to me that if I get lynched and flip innocent you want to give yourself some town cred for strongly considering the possibility I was town. The read on me seems manufactured my friend.
I've considered this, and I already recognize that I'm target #2 after you - if we lynch you and you flip inno as I expect, regardless of whatever I say here (this town-cred gambit you think I might be pulling) I'm the next target - so it doesn't matter, I'm not motivated in defending you for town cred. I'm motivated in convincing the town not to rush to lynching. So this is why I want to be very careful about this DP, and not rush to lynching you. Instead, I'd like us to be methodical, and actually lynch scum.
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@Greyparrot
@oromagi
@Speedrace
@A-R-O-S-E
I get that because I have been wrong several times in the game I look bad. I don't think the same way as a lot of you do. If anything I think town are wrong all the time. The current pool of players has a vastly different playstyle then the old DDO players. Sometimes you get it wrong in the early phases and come around in the end. I've been in enough games where I've pulled out wins late game after being wrong early many times. The players of old DDO are much more like me in most cases, where they pick a read and make a case similar to how I have. There was usually several different cases made by multiple players in a day phase. In order to pull of a lynch it took a lot more deliberation and people having to meet in the middle to pull of the best lynch.The difference is this player base seems to just wagon a lot more and I have actually been one of the only people making a case. So it's easy to just say "He was wrong a couple of times that means he is scum". Town are wrong all the time. No one is a super detective who gets everything right, it's just easier to look at it that way when one player makes up 60% of the games activity.
Anyways, I'm fully aware that I am the day's likeliest lynch based on this perception, but if I die I am just asking you to take my reads with a grain of salt. Also seriously analyze Airmax's reason for town reading me, given he is alternatively trying to sell you that he buys into the "Lunatic is scummy because he was wrong several times" logic. Max doesn't buy that, he's an old school player, and yes while he is objective, if he thought I was scummy he wouldn't dismiss me as town so easily. I see his read as heavily manufactured. I've put the spotlight on him this DP, and it will look really good for him to have town read me in the next day phase when I flip town. Similar to how he probably thought it would look good for him to town read drafter last day phase, even in his vote sentencing him to death....
As far as treading carefully, the threat doesn't make much sense. I am pushing the logic that when I die that people should be hesitant to grant your town read on me as town cred. Are you threatening my already likely death with an OMGUS read?There's no point at which I said we "Should" be lynching you. In fact, I am saying the opposite of that. I'm really confused at the motivation of this (aside from putting the suspicion on me instead of you, which I get - but I'm the only true believer in your cause at the moment, so I'd tread carefully)...
If you are assuming that I'm saying we should be lynching you, are you saying that I'm scummy for not pushing your lynch? What is even the point of what you just said?
Precisely. I know you to be conservative, but I do question your motives. Your town read on me seems based on convenience and self preservation, thus manufactured.
I'm not gona get sucked into a Lunatic versus Airmax dynamic... this is how the town will lose. Lunatic is pushing me as scum, while I'm genuinely trying to get us to focus elsewhere in the meantime. Yes we can lynch Lunatic at the end if we have no other option, but no further case is going to be made more convincing against him as far as I can tell, so we really don't have to focus much there for awhile until the end of the DP if we really can't discover a better option. Let's not get tunneled on this if we can avoid it.
I'm a bit concerned with how quickly Speed was on and then off my wagon... I also don't understand why he reads Lunatic as town (Yes I realize I do, but I feel I'm out on my own limb on that one)
So I'd like to hear more from Speed and certainly from PressF
That will be all from me tonight, I'll be back tomorrow evening around 8pm central time
As far as treading carefully, the threat doesn't make much sense. I am pushing the logic that when I die that people should be hesitant to grant your town read on me as town cred. Are you threatening my already likely death with an OMGUS read?
I'm saying you are wasting your time (the comment was tongue in cheek, don't read into it too much)... I'm already the #2... let's play this out... You get lynched you flip inno... I'm the auto #2 target already... I know I'm going to get lynched... so the only way I can play this out and win and help town (since I assume you are town at the moment) is to make sure we catch scum right now - which means we don't lynch you (and then me naturally next DP.)
You seem to be assuming that this is some sort of gambit to get town cred, but I'm already assuming I'm the next best target for DP4... All my chips have to be on the table right now
Your town read on me seems based on convenience and self preservation, thus manufactured.
It's partially true that it's self preservation cuz once you are gone, I seem to be the next wagon... but I'd be happy to be lynched right now if town then went after scum the next DP (whom I'm starting to have a better sense of - and will post more about tomorrow), but I can't be assured of that... so instead I have to defend you, and defend my defense of you, and then build a case elsewhere... or as godfather I could just jump on your wagon, see you lynched by tomorrow evening, and play it off as greyparrots fault that we mislynched... I wouldn't even have to go to all this trouble
anyways that's gotta be my last post tonight... I'll catch ya'll later
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@oromagi
I investigated Lunatic...
He reads inno, which tbh, doesn't mean much
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@airmax1227
Above
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@Lunatic
Luna, if you are indeed lynched, since your view of others isn't overshadowed by yourself, you want airmax, right?
Official Vote Count
airmax1227: 1/5 (lunatic)
lunatic: 2/5 (AROSE, Grey)
If you believe I've made a mistake please let me know. The DP ends at 8PM EST on November 7th. There are roughly 53 hours remaining.
I okay with considering other options. If you can get a case going on someone else and it is convincing enough, who knows maybe I will bite. Honestly have a hard time wrapping my head around certain options. AROSE I could potentially get behind, because I can't think of an excuse for his (in my opinion) bad behavior all game. He hasn't really provided much of any analysis behind any of his votes, and flip flopped hard all day on the drafter/me wagon as if there weren't other choices. Didn't explain his read til today. The only excuse I am kind of giving him is that he did something pretty ballsy that most town would consider stupid in dark crystal mafia, when he fake claimed as town to get drafter lynched. While he was conveniently right, if drafter didn't full claim and screw himself right after, town's would have potentially got their biggest power role mis-lynched over a failed gambit. That said, I can't deny his behavior in general has been vastly different from that game to this game. He definitely seemed to care about accurately finding scum more than he has this game. That was my reason for pushing him DP1, and that hasn't necessarily changed a lot. You could also maybe make a convincing case for greyparrot. Problem is (insult incoming) I don't necessarily know if grey parrot would be willing or devious enough to night kill wylted since they were buddy/buddy last dp just to cast WIFOM on me.I'm not gona get sucked into a Lunatic versus Airmax dynamic... this is how the town will lose. Lunatic is pushing me as scum, while I'm genuinely trying to get us to focus elsewhere in the meantime. Yes we can lynch Lunatic at the end if we have no other option, but no further case is going to be made more convincing against him as far as I can tell, so we really don't have to focus much there for awhile until the end of the DP if we really can't discover a better option. Let's not get tunneled on this if we can avoid it.
I'm a bit concerned with how quickly Speed was on and then off my wagon... I also don't understand why he reads Lunatic as town (Yes I realize I do, but I feel I'm out on my own limb on that one)
I don't see speed that scummy. The fact that he left your wagon is part of the reason I town him. He could have easily bandwagoned the strong 3 player wagon on me last DP and easily got away with it. I think the only reason I am alive is because of speed. He could have wagoned that so easily and gotten away with it. He's one of the few players not tunnel visioned in a group of players that for some reason supports tunnel vision over careful deliberation. The only scummy reason I can think of for him to take my side last phase, was potentially because he knew drafter would be a problem later on and a hard lynch (which is true), and knew that letting drafter get lynched innocent I would naturally also be lynched. That is a pretty far stretch though. If you wanna talk about a player who is quickly on and off wagons, look into AROSE from last DP, he was by far much worse.
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@airmax1227
I'm saying you are wasting your time (the comment was tongue in cheek, don't read into it too much)... I'm already the #2... let's play this out... You get lynched you flip inno... I'm the auto #2 target already... You seem to be assuming that this is some sort of gambit to get town cred, but I'm already assuming I'm the next best target for DP4... All my chips have to be on the table right now
Why do you think your automatically the auto #2 lynch target? While that's certainly what I was hoping to achieve if I was lynched, besides speed race, I don't think I've seen a ton of other opinions in favor of opinion. And even speedrace seems to have changed his mind.
It's partially true that it's self preservation cuz once you are gone, I seem to be the next wagon... but I'd be happy to be lynched right now if town then went after scum the next DP (whom I'm starting to have a better sense of - and will post more about tomorrow)
over 50 hours left, I am in no rush. I'll await your case, and potentially others.
Unvote.
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@oromagi
@Speedrace
Who are your top scum reads right now and why?
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@Lunatic
Just caught up, busy day :/
Airmax would be my top for right now, with Grey as a close second. Airmax is based on the arguments you outlined, but Grey is because of his tunnel vision, although he hasn't really done anything else...and A-R-O-S-E would be in the same pile so...
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@Speedrace
Right.
You're just going to conveniently ignore how weak your play was yesterday by lynching the most useful town out of all of us based on wifom double bus.
Fine whatevs. I'll bring this up in future games to remind you.
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@Greyparrot
Why do you think he was the most useful town though...
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@Greyparrot
You live up to your name. You about meaningless statements over and over like a parrot.
"Double bus"
Sqwuaaakkk
"Double bus"
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@Speedrace
I can accuse you of tunnel defending Lunatic by accepting his lame excuse of "poor town play"
Like I told Airmax, if we, as a rule, allow scum to use that excuse, then mafia will always have an easy and predictable win.
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@Lunatic
You're really lucky most of the town that is left are the ones that bought your sales pitch.
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@Greyparrot
1. There's no such thing as tunnel defending, lol
2. That's not why I town read him lol
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@Speedrace
I'll bring it up in the end game. I don't see much chance reasoning with you after your performance last DP and this DP.
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@Greyparrot
I never said I had poor town play lol. You are the epitome of poor play. I have demonstrated this over and over again.
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@Lunatic
Since you are scum, it's no surprise you are going to conveniently forget the fuckup that was the lynching of drafter.
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@Greyparrot
This is the most silly horse shit thing ever. Your playing a game now. Bring it up now or admit you got nothing.I'll bring it up in the end game. I don't see much chance reasoning with you after your performance last DP and this DP.
You and wylted both are guilty of this endgame finality crap. I don't care if you wanna convince yourself of absolutes, but if you are town you simply do not know with 100% finality who town or mafia is. If your wrong then what, your just gonna say well it was his fault for playing like shit? Meanwhile you don't bother trying to actually argue your point, you just mindlessly state your read? This game is more about pride for some of you then it is about scum hunting and winning and its freaking ridiculous.
You don't take the game seriously. Why do you play? What do you get out of it? Ever since I've known you, you've played lazy as shit. You don't seem to care less about winning or losing. Your seriously just a placeholder on the player list, you being in a game doesn't effect or influence anything that happens.