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@dustryder
Moo
Will impeachment help or hurt the Democrats?
Posts
Total:
94
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@Greyparrot
like coming down the escalator.
Like criminally impeding an investigation at least 8 times. Like violating the emoluments clause constantly. For violating campaign finance laws. For encouraging russia to interfere in the election, which they then did.
The list of the shitty stuff he has done is pretty long.
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@Greyparrot
think I figured something out, thought it was common knowledge but maybe not. Trump pushing boundaries, buttons and walks lines. Has any of that crossed over into provable crimes? Not that I have seen yet. But my eyes are not blinded by TDS. TBH I'd rather have Pence as president so I'm rather ambivalent about the whole thing except what will happen to the economy, foreign relations etc.
If it were to happen the domino effect will be very ugly imo.
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@TheDredPriateRoberts
I am a realist not a moralist.
Upending the result of elections for process crimes is how Rome fell. The law is partially written by the swamp after all, so that's not a check on corruption. The VOTE is the ultimate check and should be held to a higher standard than tainted law.
The country would have been horribly damaged had Clinton been removed for process crimes like perjury.
GOP lost seats in both houses in the next election after a failed impeachment, and the people would have elected Bill for another term if it was possible. The country has already danced this dance before.
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@TheDredPriateRoberts
Trump pushing boundaries, buttons and walks lines. Has any of that crossed over into provable crimes? Not that I have seen yet.
He committed 8 chargeable counts of obstruction of justice, it is in the mueller report. if he weren't still president he would have been charged. He is an unindicted co-conspirator in the crimes his personal attorney, michael cohen was convicted for. If he weren't president he would have been charged.
He illegally asked Ukraine to provide dirt on his political rival joe biden which is a campaign finance violation. He has pretty much constantly violated the emoluments clause because he didn't divest from his company and he uses the presidency to enrich himself.
These are all well established facts.
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@Greyparrot
GOP lost seats in both houses in the next election after a failed impeachment, and the people would have elected Bill for another term if it was possible. The country has already danced this dance before.
No, they haven't .Bill was impeached for lying about an affair. That has no effect on the presidency or the country. It was still illegal, but no one except republican lawmakers thought it was impeachable.
Trump has committed numerous serious crimes. I have listed some above. But just the one the impeachment inquiry is about is, on it's own, extremely serious. He is trying to use the power of his office to get foreign countries to interfere in a US election. That is gross abuse of his office. Even after the impeachment inquiry started, he continued doing this by publicly calling on China to investigate Biden and Warren. He needs to be impeached.
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@HistoryBuff
These are all well established facts.
then why the need for subpoenas or investigations? if they are "well established facts" then the case is closed, end of story, so why is everyone still talking about it and why is it still in the news?
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@TheDredPriateRoberts
then why the need for subpoenas or investigations? if they are "well established facts" then the case is closed, end of story, so why is everyone still talking about it and why is it still in the news?
Because, unfortunately, the justice department has a memo saying the president can't be charged with a crime. So there is essentially no punishment possible for his crimes other than impeachment. Democrats are also terrible at getting information across. So even though it is established that he has committed these crimes, many people, such as yourself, still believe he didn't do them or are unaware they took place at all. Thus public opinion didn't shift in favor of impeachment, so they did nothing.
We are still talking about them, because the president committed these crimes and has so far gone unpunished for them. So it is established he is a criminal, but he is still allowed to go on using his office to commit more crimes.
The ones i listed are some of the ones he has been committing for the last 2 years. The subpoena's, and the impeachment inquiry, are looking into new crimes. And more information is coming out every day. I mean 2 of Giuliani's friends that helped him in Ukraine just got arrested yesterday. The story continues to unravel.
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@HistoryBuff
which court of law found him guilty?
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@TheDredPriateRoberts
which court of law found him guilty?
As I said, we know he committed these crimes and would be charged if it were possible. Unfortunately, the justice department memo does not allow it.
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@TheDredPriateRoberts
So funny that Trump hasn't been convicted of any wrongdoing before the escalator ride, yet Al Green had articles of impeachment drawn up the moment he came down the escalator and Obama launched a then-secret investigation.
You have to ask what is so goddamn magically impeachable about that escalator ride?
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@TheDredPriateRoberts
Also if the deep state has 6 ways to Sunday to get you as Schumer claims...what "way" are they on? And what day of the week is it? Cause so far they haven't been able to get him.
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@HistoryBuff
Unfortunately, the justice department memo does not allow it.
Doesn't allow what exactly? They can find him guilty but not punish him until after he was out of office I believe, so why haven't they done that if the facts are so concrete?
would be charged if it were possible.
it is possible, no idea why you don't think it isn't, they just couldn't do anything punitive until he was out of office right?
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@TheDredPriateRoberts
They are not going to hold a vote for impeachment. I put money on it on predictit.com.
No reason not to make money off of TDS people, and don't call me evil for taking advantage of retarded people.
Like the TDS people that left the stock market in 2016.
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@TheDredPriateRoberts
Doesn't allow what exactly? They can find him guilty but not punish him until after he was out of office I believe, so why haven't they done that if the facts are so concrete?
No they can't. The memo makes it clear that a sitting president cannot be indicted. unless that memo is overruled, they cannot charge him with a crime even if they watched him do it. The only recourse is to impeach him and once he is removed from office, then he can be charged. Trump has been implicated in several crimes for which he could be charged, but the justice department cannot indict him.
it is possible, no idea why you don't think it isn't, they just couldn't do anything punitive until he was out of office right?
Incorrect. The current position of the justice department is that a sitting president cannot be indicted. So even if he murdered someone on national television, they could not charge him with a crime. He would need to be impeached or finish his term before charges could be laid.
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@Greyparrot
They are not going to hold a vote for impeachment. I put money on it on predictit.com.
That was a silly thing to bet on. The majority of Americans already support impeachment and the information is still coming out. They will have no choice but to impeach.
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@Greyparrot
it's amazing of the proof they have only to never show it, or the "witnesses" who didn't actually witness anything but rather heard something, some people said somethings.....
thinking back....the market will crash if he's elected, he will get us into a war/nuclear war. He is ( )ist. the list is much longer than I can pull from memory but they have been out to get him since day 1
didn't Madcow say something like "we got him!" because of the Mueller report lol which no one is talking about anymore.
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@TheDredPriateRoberts
it's amazing of the proof they have only to never show it
What are you talking about? The proof has been all over the news if you watch anything other than fox.
didn't Madcow say something like "we got him!" because of the Mueller report lol which no one is talking about anymore.
The mueller report says that they could not determine if the trump worked with the russians because too many people refused to testify or hid documents. But they had over 100 unreported contacts with russians while they were saying they had none. It also says that trump committed at least 8 chargeable counts of obstruction of justice. In a less partisan world, that would destroy a president. But so many people just listen to fox news which just kept repeating talking points over and over and over that alot of people think that mueller report exonerated Trump, which it very much did not do.
Dems moved on not because trump didn't commit crimes, but because a large chunk of the american population just didn't care that trump had committed crimes.
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@HistoryBuff
Could Trump (or any president) be indicted after leaving office? Mueller, legal experts say yes
which is exactly what I said
Dems moved on not because trump didn't commit crimes, but because a large chunk of the american population just didn't care that trump had committed crimes.
LOL they don't need any portion of the American population to care to enforce laws, that's not how the legal system works, it's not mob rule, not in the U.S. anyway.
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@TheDredPriateRoberts
Could Trump (or any president) be indicted after leaving office? Mueller, legal experts say yes. which is exactly what I said
You said "They can find him guilty but not punish him until after he was out of office I believe". They can charge him once he leaves office. They cannot charge him until then. So no matter how many crimes he commits, no one can touch him until after his impeachment or his term ends.
LOL they don't need any portion of the American population to care to enforce laws, that's not how the legal system works, it's not mob rule, not in the U.S. anyway.
The justice department disagrees. Their memo says the president cannot be charged with a crime. Ergo, he is above the law while he is in office. The only method to punish him for breaking laws is the impeachment process. The impeachment process is not a legal (as in a court of law) proceeding, it is a political proceeding because it is being carried out by elected members of congress. Since those members of congress need to be worried about their next election, they often defer to what the mob wants rather than what the law says. So where the president is concerned, it pretty much is mob rule.
So to summarize. Trump has committed crimes. The justice department cannot charge him with those crimes. Because the justice department didn't charge him with those crimes (and fox keeps telling people nothing happened) people don't believe he committed those crimes. As a result an impeachment didn't happen because the people wouldn't support it.
But the latest polling shows the majority of Americans now do support it. So he will be getting impeached. Whether or not he is convicted by the senate is a whole different story.
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@HistoryBuff
It's not going to get to a vote, but feel free to lose money betting against Orangeman.
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@TheDredPriateRoberts
America has already done this impeachment dance with Bill Clinton.
No matter what happens with Orangeman, the House is now officially toast.
Even the crony media admits this is a dance Pelosi cannot win.
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@Greyparrot
It's not going to get to a vote, but feel free to lose money betting against Orangeman.
You have not given any reason at all why you think that. The memo they released shows that he asked for a thing of value. He has basically confessed. And since the majority of the country now supports impeachment, there is no reason they would not vote to impeach.
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@HistoryBuff
I have the crony MSM media explaining why it won't get voted on. Easy money.
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@TheDredPriateRoberts
You should buy up some no's on predict it. It's currently at 29 cents due to the media hype, and will likely jump to 70 cents as it becomes more clear that there will be no vote.
If they can't politically afford a vote on impeachment inquiry now when support is at an all time high, they most certainly won't be able to afford a vote for impeachment when the media buzz dies down.
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@Greyparrot
Considering the polls for impeachment are continuing to improve and we already know he is guilty, I would say betting against impeachment is foolish. But hey, i'm not the one wasting money.
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@HistoryBuff
If they can't politically afford a vote on impeachment inquiry now when support is at an all time high, they most certainly won't be able to afford a vote for impeachment when the media buzz dies down.
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@Greyparrot
If they can't politically afford a vote on impeachment inquiry now when support is at an all time high, they most certainly won't be able to afford a vote for impeachment when the media buzz dies down.
That is unlikely any time soon. Subpoena's are going out. 2 of giuliani's allies in his ukranian enterprises just got arrested while trying to leave the country. They have indicated they are willing to talk. This is just the beginning.
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@HistoryBuff
You should pay attention to what the crony MSM media is saying since they get their marching orders directly from the DNC.
There will not be a vote, and the White house is not going to change its policy of denying subpoenas until there is a vote.
Pelosi can't win this impeachment dance under any scenario.
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@Greyparrot
There will not be a vote
You are talking about a vote to start the proceedings i believe. But there is no rule that says they have to or even should do that. The dems have decided they don't need a vote to start the inquiry. The inquiry is already ongoing. They only need a vote to finish it and impeach him.
the White house is not going to change its policy of denying subpoenas until there is a vote.
They aren't going to change their policy ever. They will fight to the end to hide evidence and prevent people from testifying because they know they could go to prison. Whether or not the house has an unnecessary vote now is not going to change anything.
Pelosi can't win this impeachment dance under any scenario.
Have you seen the latest fox polls for impeachment? They are already winning.