nocturnal creatures live at night and have night vision.
- night will be x
- night vision will be y
God gave nocturnal animals y to help with x
applying knowledge
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@crossed
I am saying these adaptation are not adaptation but were formed via creation. It is believed by some. That when god teleported humans across the entire planet during t
According to Genesis 10 Ham and his children were the first Africans in the start of nations.
There was Noah's curse and the hot African sun that gave us negros.
But all that happened because and after the giant flood that God sent. Cause and effect?
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@Harikrish
Thats how some people interpret it. But the racism is on both sides.
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@crossed
You are not offering any evidence only more claims.
You claim some god(s) did x or y. Now demonstrate that god(s) were the cause rather than it being purely the result of unguided naturalistic causes.
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@secularmerlin
Its an intelligent choice
My example
- I have knowledge that plants die during the winter time. So i apply this knowledge and bring in my plants indoors so they do not die in the cold.
Gods example.
- God has knowledge that dogs would be hot during the summer. So he applied this knowledge and designed the dogs to shed it's fur during the summer
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@crossed
False analogy. You are comparing known and demonstrated agent (you) with some unknown and as yet undemonstrated agency (god(s)). Your example is not proof but only a claim. Claims must be supported with sufficient evidence or they can and should be dismissed in logical discourse.
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@secularmerlin
False anology
I pick an apple from a tree and eat it. It is logical for me to think the apple grew on a tree.
I buy apples at the grocery store. It is illogical for me to think the apple came from a tree because i did not pick it
That's your logic.Just because i did not see the grocery store pick there apples off a tree. it does not mean the apples did not come from a tree
- me picking the apple off a tree is a demonstrated agent. grocery store picking the apple is undemonstrated agent. Thus the grocery store did not pick the apple
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@crossed
If i had no knowledge of apple trees and had never seen/heard of fruit growing on trees and trees were only mentioned in ancient texts of questionable authorship, scientific merit and veracity then your example would hold up however you are again comparing a known and demonstrated agent (an apple tree) with some unknown and as yet undemonstrated agency (god(s)).
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@secularmerlin
It is an undemonstrative agent because you did not see the grocery store apple get picked off a tree.
Ok
The dog is the demonstrative agent and because it exist. The what you call an undemonstrative agent must also exist.Aka God. since the demonstrated agent shows tampering from the undemonstrative agent. The undemonstrative agent must exist because it tampered with he demonstrated agent.
The dog Sheds its fur during the summer. God must have done it. Because it shows that the dog was created in a certain way because god had foreknowledge. God had knowledge that summers would be hot. So he designed the dog to shed it's fur.
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@crossed
How do you counter this:
- Rain will fall from clouds
- Plants need rain to live
Therefore Zeus made it so plants could drink rain.
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@ludofl3x
It's true if rain did not fall from the sky no plants can exist.
That is completely true. I know that you are trying to say that it is unreasonable but it is not. Why should this properties exist.
If i did not water my plants they would die.
If god did not water his plants they would die
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@crossed
You mean if ZEUS didn't water plants. Right? Or just any generic god?
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@crossed
The problem with your example is that I can see apple trees. They are visible organisms. If I take you out to an orchard and show you an apple tree to prove they ecistvwhat will you then show me to prove some god(s)? The apple tree? Because you gave established that if we didn't know about apple trees and had no available examples we would have no reason to think that is where apples come from which is reasonable but flawed since we do have knowledge of apple trees and examples of them to observe.
Your example is actually a step further it would be as though we had never seen any trees let alone apple trees because I have never seen or observed any god(s) let alone specifically the jesus.
Humming birds have straws for beaks so they can suck nectar from flowers.
- suck nectar from flowers will be x
- Straw beaks will be y
God created y So they can do x
There would be no hummingbirds if they did not have the right beak for the job because they could not eat.So god gave the humming bird a beak specifically designed for eating nectar.
Some birds have beaks specifically designed to eat bugs.
- Bird has special beak that helps with eating bugs will be x
- Birds eat bugs will be y
Thus god created x to help with y
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@ludofl3x
I am saying jesus did it sorry
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@crossed
Zeus is a god, he did it. And also the hummingbird thing, Zeus made them too.
Unsurprisingly, you are missing the point, so I'm trying to simplify it. I am making a claim that Zeus did everything you say some common noun small g god did. Please counter this claim if you disagree.
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@ludofl3x
I know that was an accident i fixed it
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@secularmerlin
Yes but you do not have to see something to know that it effected it. If you are effected by that thing you can not see. Then the thing you can not see must exist.
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@crossed
Why is it Jesus and not the similarly undemonstrable Zeus?
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@crossed
Can you verify the thing you cannot immediately see, like the apple store, the orchard, and the existence of people who pick and sell apples, if you wanted to? Could you prove to a friend that these things were real?
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@ludofl3x
I am actually doing a debate on other gods right now.
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@ludofl3x
I am trying to show you the reason why animals have certain traits. is because god used his knowledge when designing the creatures. Since he used his knowledge god exist.
Yes i could show my friend a apple orchard. Or i could show that the apple has a stem. The stem was what held the apple on the tree. Thus the apple had to be on a tree at one point. since it had a stem.
Since the apple has a stem. It means it was once part of a tree. I do not need to show you the orchard
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@crossed
Yes but you do not have to see something to know that it effected it. If you are effected by that thing you can not see. Then the thing you can not see must exist.
Please demonstrate any effect that can be verifiably attributable to some god(s). Remember that there is an effect is not evidence of a particular cause or even a cause at all.
You aren't trying to SHOW anything. You are saying something is as it is, therefore it is that way because something no one can confirm exists as of yet designed it to be as it is. This flies in the face of the available evidence, not to mention puts man on par with your generic god (again, not Jesus, you're still a step away from proving why Jesus would be the designer and not just some 'god', you have not in any way countered my claim it was in fact Zeus). Man can and has designed animals to do certain things, look certain ways. Ask a labradoodle.
Is your opening statement in Santa Vs. Jesus really "Santa is Satan With Two Letters Flipped"??? I might be done with serious discussion if that's not some genius satirical trolling.
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@crossed
This analogy does not hold. Daisies and wine glasses have stems and neither comes from a tree. You are still relying on priori knowledge of apple trees where no priori knowledge of your actual subject, some god(s), exists outside of human claims.Yes i could show my friend a apple orchard. Or i could show that the apple has a stem. The stem was what held the apple on the tree. Thus the apple had to be on a tree at one point. since it had a stem.
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@ludofl3x
you aren't trying to SHOW anything. You are saying something is as it is, therefore it is that way because something no one can confirm exists as of yet designed it to be as it is
I am saying it is a certain way because an intelligent being created it that way.He did it because this so on so reason. you do not have to see the object. As long as it effects you. It must exist.
My example
- I have knowledge that plants die during the winter time. So i apply this knowledge and bring in my plants indoors so they do not die in the cold.
. plants are inside. Therefore i brought them inside so they do not die in the cold. Nature follows the same logic i use here. Therefore the one who created nature is intelligent to.Because it follows the same logic.
Gods example.
- God has knowledge that dogs would be hot during the summer. So he applied this knowledge and designed the dogs to shed it's fur during the summer
Dogs shed during the summer. Thus God designed the animals to shed its fur so they can cool down.
Man can and has designed animals to do certain things, look certain ways. Ask a labradoodle.
OK let used this logic. In north Korea all of Kim jong soldiers that guard north korea border that connects to south korea are 6 foot or 7 foot tall.
The reason why he did this is because 6 foot people are stronger and soldiers have to fight.
- Soldiers having to fight will be x
- 6 to 7 foot people being stronger is y
Kim jong ung chose people with the y trait to help with x.
Animals have more fur during the winter.
- Winter will be x
- more fur will be y
God created animals with y to help with x
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@secularmerlin
Apple stem fits perfectly on a apple tree branch
WIne glass does not
This analogy does not hold. Daisies and wine glasses have stems and neither comes from a tree. You are still relying on priori knowledge of apple trees where no priori knowledge of your actual subject, some god(s), exists outside of human claims.
Animals have traits because the creator is intelligentPlease demonstrate any effect that can be verifiably attributable to some god(s). Remember that there is an effect is not evidence of a particular cause or even a cause at all.
In north Korea all of Kim jong soldiers that guard north korea border that connects to south korea are 6 foot or 7 foot tall.
The reason why he did this is because 6 foot people are stronger and soldiers have to fight.
- Soldiers having to fight will be x
- 6 to 7 foot people being stronger is y
Kim jong ung chose people with the y trait to help with x.
Animals have more fur during the winter.
- Winter will be x
- more fur will be y
God created animals with y to help with x