The Solution To Poverty?

Author: ethang5

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ethang5
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Sigh.

Money is representative of an asset that belongs to someone. 
I'm not talking about money.

Your concept of injecting units into the system 
I am not suggesting injecting units into the system.

[Money] is not something that arises from imagination or on a computer screen.
I know. Did you notice that I didn't say it was?

Inflation is not perception. 
Inflation is like color. It exists only in our minds. Notice I did not say inflation was not real.

I think it is fraught with problems - personally.
I think you should read the whole thread.
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@ethang5
No you dont know what  geometry of dumb-bell is even after Ive presented to you three or more times with explanation.

Trumpanzees are in constant denial of truth.

Ghandi says, ..'we have enough for everyones need, not enough for everyones greed' ...or so Ive read.

And there are population limits to this comment by him in 1930's or 40's.

And what systems of operations humanity is using to sustain humans needs and/o greeds.

The current systems are not sustainable beyond the next 500 - 1000 years.




ethang5
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@mustardness
Zzzzzzz.



Stronn
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@mustardness
The only way you can achieve the wealth distribution you desire is by incredibly heavy-handed government intervention in the marketplace, which in the end results in everyone being poorer.
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@ethang5

Zzzzzzz
Yeah, your asleep at the wheel. Is anyone surprised at this fact? No


No you dont know what  geometry of dumb-bell  >< is even after Ive presented to you three or more times with explanation.

Trumpanzees are in constant denial of truth.

Ghandi says, ..'we have enough for everyones need, not enough for everyones greed' ...or so Ive read.

And there are population limits to this comment by him in 1930's or 40's.

And what systems of operations humanity is using to sustain humans needs and/o greeds.

The current systems are not sustainable beyond the next 500 - 1000 years.

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@Stronn
The only way you can achieve the wealth distribution you desire is by incredibly heavy-handed government intervention in the marketplace, which in the end results in everyone being poorer.
>< is representative of dumb-bell geometric path that will lead to demise of humanity. Trumpanzees are in denial of the most simple truths.

<> is a representative of a octahedral ergo fat { girth } aka middle class for all of humanity and not your narrow concept of one nation with a set of 200 or more on Earth.

First of all,  there has to be voluntary desire by global humanity to see truth state of world and motivated to unify regarding dong something about that state of the world.

2nd step and so and so on.

The alternative options is the one that traditional pathway and that is one or more states, force global humanity to see truth, and address the state of the world involuntarily.

Trumpanzees make the 2nd option more likely one to occur. Sad :--( as that is butt forward into the future.

Option #1 is mind/intellect/concepts forward into the future.

Either option may prevail and humanity survives beyond a 500 -1000 years from now, but at what costs of suffering and misery.


Ghandi---there is enough for every ones need,  not everyones greed... and that comment was made in 1930's or 40's., or so Ive read.

Trumpanzees chant is so narrowed minded...make america great again!.....





ethang5
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Same dumb repeated post.


Zzzzzzzz
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@mustardness
Sorry, I'm not a fan of Trump. I do, however, know when a proposed system is pie-in-the-sky.
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@Stronn
I do, however, know when a proposed system is pie-in-the-sky.
In 1800's people who proposed going to the moon were called lunatics { luna = moon }.

Pie-in-the-sky = impossible. Oh yea of little faith.

You believe a octahedral <> fat middle class for all of humanity. Oh yea of little faith of what is possible.

Does some cosmic law exist that prevents such a scenario? No? I didnt think and neither do you.

Do you not believe we have a dumb-bell >< scenario occurring with distrubition of wealth where middle-class is shrinking? No?

Then your in denial of truth.

Pie in the sky when it, occurs on Earth, is no longer pie-in-the-sky.

You prefer a global dumb-bell >< system for society? Yes? Maybe if your in the rich half. 

If your not in rich half, then you might desire, and struggle for  a fat <> middle class pie-in-the-sky.

In 1960 was the idea of  the Soviet Union tearing down the wall, pie-in-the-sky?

The list of pie-in-the-sky scenarios coming to fruit is much larger than you give credit for.

Hey, I dont have faith humanity will pull-out of their spiral into humanicide.  Does that  mean I wont speak truth and make attempts to change the world for a  better society, No, it does not.

Hope is the last line of defense. Hope for scientific discoveries. Hope for mind forward over butt forward leaders. Etc. 
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@ethang5
I think if that was done,  the cost of milk would hit 20 dollars. And gas 100 a gallon. The ability to buy goods would create shortages and price would adjust accordingly. There is a reason poverty exists, and I doubt it has much to income.

Cheap labor, the need for people to segregate and establish orders, ect...

To eliminate poverty would be a downsize in population, an increase in education, and program of motivation to make everyone's contribution to economic social success equally valuable.

Ideally remove the love of money.

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@Mhykiel
Stron, if it is dumb and true at the same time, I can live with that.

Truth is my bottom line, not necessarily how I arrived at the truth.
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In 1800's people who proposed going to the moon were called lunatics { luna = moon }.

Pie-in-the-sky = impossible. Oh yea of little faith.

You dont believe and cant accept believe a octahedral <> fat middle class for all of humanity is better path than the dumb-bell path.

Oh yea of little faith of what is possible and I would call that kind of dumb non-thinking.

Does some cosmic law exist that prevents such a scenario? No? I didnt think and neither do you.

Do you not believe we have a dumb-bell >< scenario occurring with distrubition of wealth where middle-class is shrinking? No?

Then your in denial of truth.

Pie in the sky when it, occurs on Earth, is no longer pie-in-the-sky.

You prefer a global dumb-bell >< system for society? Yes? Maybe if your in the rich half. 

If your not in rich half, then you might desire, and struggle for  a fat <> middle class pie-in-the-sky.

In 1960 was the idea of  the Soviet Union tearing down the wall, pie-in-the-sky?

The list of pie-in-the-sky scenarios coming to fruit is much larger than you give credit for.

Hey, I dont have faith humanity will pull-out of their spiral into humanicide.  Does that  mean I wont speak truth and make attempts to change the world for a  better society, No, it does not.

Hope is the last line of defense. Hope for scientific discoveries. Hope for mind forward over butt forward leaders. Etc. 

Mhykiel
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@mustardness
The middle class is moving to under the poverty line and the richest get richer. I know.

Is there a solution to the dichotomy? I think so. I think it is in a fundamental shift in mentality and the adequate removal of greed and social-economic desires for cheap labor and cheaply made easy disposable products.

That if there was a return to caring for, repairing what's present instead of bigger-better-faster then a economic system based on services and advancement could be achieved.

What have you done to bring such a world about? Is standing on a street corner shouting messages of doom aided the pendulum of change to swing to towards paradise?
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@ethang5
Something is only worth as much time as you are willing to put in.    Not sure what all would go down but I'd trade for tangible assets as soon as possible, and a beer.  I'd assume that it would ultimately benefit the upper class in a position to take advantage in the changing times and screw everyone else.  It would have been benevolent to make your currency out of a nationally owned commodity or something.
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@Mhykiel
Mhykiel! Glad to see you here buddy. Wanted to send you an invite but you had been AWOL on DDO for a while before the spampocalypse. I hope we will be seeing your logically deft post here. The site greatly needs posters like you.

I think if that was done,  the cost of milk would hit 20 dollars. And gas 100 a gallon.
I think that is the intuitive reaction, but though some prices might rise, they will not rise as high, and would quickly stabilize.

The ability to buy goods would create shortages and price would adjust accordingly.
True, but the added assets would allow supply to quickly ramp up to meet the increased demand. The higher the demand, the greater will be the incentive to increase supply.

There is a reason poverty exists, and I doubt it has much to income.
Again, I agree. As I said earlier, despite the title of the thread, this is not an exercise to cure poverty. Rather, it is an experiment to show people that inflation exists only in their minds.

I used to teach a class where in one exercise, I press a penny into the forehead of a volunteer and ask him to contort his face till the penny falls off. What he doesn't know is that I did not leave the penny on his face, but pretended I had. The pressure sensors in his forehead though tell him the penny is there.

Pressing the penny into his skin made him feel as if the penny was still there even after it had been removed by me. So the subject would stand before the class, hands cupped under his head,  contorting his face thinking the penny was there, to the howls of laughter of the people watching him contort his face.

Then, before he suspected the truth and touched his face, I would hold up a mirror before him. Seeing the penny not there, he would immediately stop contorting his face.

But then the crux. Everyone, and I mean everyone, I did this test on, would touch their face even after seeing in the mirror that there was no penny there.

Why? Because they were getting conflicting sensory information. The penny felt as if it was there, but did not look as if it was there. The hand to touch forehead could not have been predicted. The subject is actually trying to break the tie between to conflicting senses (pressure/sight) with touch. He is not even aware this is what is happening.

By keeping the IOU system separate from the money system, I could hold up a mirror to the population showing them that the inflation pressure they feel on their foreheads, cannot be seen with their eyes.

And like all subjects, and this is critical, they will lift up a hand to touch where their pressure sensor is telling them inflation is. After this, they begin to ignore the information coming from their pressure sensor.

In this state, the normal human reactions and responses in economic theory no longer hold. People act differently.
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@Plisken
Something is only worth as much time as you are willing to put in.    Not sure what all would go down but I'd trade for tangible assets as soon as possible, and a beer.  
Lol. Most would, that is why the amount needs to be large enough to make this cumbersome.

I'd assume that it would ultimately benefit the upper class in a position to take advantage in the changing times and screw everyone else.
The upper class would not have any added benefit as everyone would be getting the same amount.

 It would have been benevolent to make your currency out of a nationally owned commodity or something.
That would defeat the purpose of the exercise. Done that way, inflation would have immediately set in and there would be no way to show to people that it was only in their heads.

Prices would spiral out of control and the IOU's would become worthless. Worse, it would have a similar effect on the old money supply and wreck the country's GDP.
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@Mhykiel
The middle class is moving to under the poverty line and the richest get richer. I know.
Yeah, I presented clearly it is dumbell geometry ><. Most here cannot grasp what a dumbell pattern is much less that is what is happeing in US if not globally.

Is there a solution to the dichotomy? I think so. I think it is in a fundamental shift in mentality and the adequate removal of greed and social-economic desires for cheap labor and cheaply made easy disposable products.
I think the solution is beyond monetary and begins from heart and mind place of survival of human race,  not person or nations power, greed, etc


What have you done to bring such a world about?
Became vegetarian ergo less methane production, however, I have since gone on three cruise ship vacations so that may invalidate my years of avoiding beef eating and methane production. There is plenty more Ive done but for privacy reasons I would not share in most public forums.

Is standing on a street corner shouting messages of doom aided the pendulum of change to swing to towards paradise?
Ive done much more than you will ever know, for most of my adult life, to change society for a better society and ecology that sustains all humans.

Standing wherever and speaking our minds, irrespective of content is about freedom, liberty and justice for all.  I wouldnt have it any other way.

>< spells doom and gloom for humanity

<> fat middle class is best option for humanities future is not doom and gloom

Ive been fair and balanced. Others here not so much

21 days later

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Work combined with fiscal and personal  responsibility is the solution to poverty. Every single person without exception who is not poor practices all three.

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@sadolite
Work combined with fiscal and personal  responsibility is the solution to poverty. Every single person without exception who is not poor practices all three.
1} metaphysical-1, mind/intellect/conceptual work,

2} muscle work.


1} ..."Nearly 1/2 of the world’s population — more than 3 billion people — live on less than $2.50 a day. More than 1.3 billion live in extreme poverty — less than $1.25 a day."....

2}

3}
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@ethang5
The only way to COMPLETELY eliminate poverty is with enforced labour so that everyone has no choice to be unproductive in society along with an aggressive social program to cull the disabled.


That's not worth eliminating poverty, and i am happy to have the poor in exchange.

ethang5
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I doubt if that is the ONLY way. But the purpose of this thread was not the elimination of poverty anyway.
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@ethang5
So you are saying the solution to poverty is not eliminating poverty?

I suppose we could make everyone poor like Venezuela.
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What difference does tapping a keyboard and adding a few extra noughts really make?

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@Greyparrot
So you are saying the solution to poverty is not eliminating poverty?
No. I'm saying that the only way to COMPLETELY eliminate poverty is NOT with enforced labour.

I suppose we could make everyone poor like Venezuela
You should learn to be careful of absolutes like "only". But if you live in a black and white world, it doesn't matter.
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@mustardness
Oh you are talking about the entire world. That's a pipe dream. Only capitalism can create less poverty. All countries who do not practice capitalism will always be dirt poor.

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@ethang5
No. I'm saying that the only way to COMPLETELY eliminate poverty is NOT with enforced labour.
But you would have to do that as unproductive people will always have less money than productive people; otherwise productive people would rarely volunteer to work harder than unproductive people, and the ones that did volunteer would never work as hard as the could if they were compensated fairly for their efforts. That's the reason why socialism leads to economic ruin in the quest of using wealth redistribution to eliminate poverty rather than enforcing productivity.

As long as there is a wealth gap, a "poverty line" will always be established, no matter how much wealth the unproductive people have.

In order to equalize wealth you would have to enforce productivity.

In order to eliminate poverty you would have to establish workfarms for the poor like England did, which was extremely successful at culling the unproductive poor from society at a barbaric cost.


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@Greyparrot
You're not talking about the elimination of poverty but the elimination of financial disparity. The topic of my thread is neither poverty or financial gaps.

Poverty cannot be eliminated.



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@ethang5
Your solution was to gift 1 million dollars to everyone, regardless of productivity to society, in the hopes of creating financial equality.
ethang5
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No. My intention was never to gift dollars to anyone thinking it would eliminate poverty. I was not trying to eliminate poverty. And I couldn't care less for equality, financial or otherwise.

If you ever have the interest and or time, read through the thread.

7 days later

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@Buddamoose
It would only leave us in a crisis for 6 months, while most minimum wage workers enjoyed their cocaine parties and whores, who would then return to jobs, so desperate for workers they would be offering a living wage to get people back to work. The real problem is real estate prices which are determined more by how much the owner can get for the property, than by how much a property is actually worth.
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@sadolite
Capitalism is to solution to poverty.

All-for-one and one-for-all is the spiritual/moral motivation to initiate finding solutions to  poverty.

<> fat middle class is what humanity should be shooting for, not the dumb-bell >< geometry ---i.e. rich - poor diffrentiation is increasing---  that has been occurring for many years now.

This fairly simple, rational, logical common sense. Ideologues pushing capitalism are lack spiritual, moral, rational, logical common sense.

The capitalist trickle-out effect can only work so far, with a closed system, before people will no longer accept gross disparity.  They should not have to accept such standard of living disparities.