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@thett3
What's Yang so great with regards to? Any specifics? What makes him a good man as opposed to a soft-spoken strategic manipulator?
An honest question to progressives about race
Posts
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@thett3
When I think “power” I think “the group that is victimized 90% of the time.” How is the issue of net harms irrelevant when discussing oppression?
I guess I should be more precise. When I think "power," I mostly think "the major holders of financial, cultural, and technological capital," the people reaping the benefits of our system.
I don't think "oppression" is a useful term anymore because everyone's engaged in self-exploitation. You see examples of this everywhere, people willingly working their asses off to enrich the owners of Twitter, Instagram, etc. People obsessing publicly over victimhood are part of this.
The "white vs black" rhetoric plays out within this framework. It's been monetized by corporate power, and most of those engaging it aren't actually concerned about blacks or whites, they're just repeating what they've been told. It keeps us divided against each other so that we don't notice what's actually happening, and the rhetoric of net harms reinforces these divisions.
I think there's a lot of progressives who think along the lines I'm outlining, maybe not in these precise terms, but along the same lines. It's a strongly anti-neoliberal view.
That’s because a growing plurality on the left—spearheaded by several major presidential candidates—wants to take money from me for reparations. That is, by definition, a white vs black issue so if we have to divvy up exactly who owes who what, we should be allowed to make the obvious counter argument.
Neither Biden non Bernie support a reparations bill, and they clearly have the majority of black voters behind them. Reparations is just a purity test for the awful neoliberal candidates (e.g. Buttigieg). So again, it's a distraction.
It's also never going to happen, no matter what anyone says, and your concern about this feels a bit fake, no offense. I'm personally more worried about how reparations-talk is alienating Hispanic voters, and I see little hope of the Democrats winning if they don't go with Biden/Bernie as their candidate.
I like Yang. My preferred candidates are Bernie or Yang, for what it's worth.
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@RationalMadman
What's Yang so great with regards to? Any specifics? What makes him a good man as opposed to a soft-spoken strategic manipulator?
He supports universal basic income, which is a stepping stone in my mind to universal basic assets. This is a very good thing. Bernie's approach is a bit different in that he's focusing mostly on healthcare, which is also an important stepping stone to universal basic assets. Either one would be great for the country.
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@Levi
I guess I should be more precise. When I think "power," I mostly think "the major holders of financial, cultural, and technological capital," the people reaping the benefits of our system.
Whoever actually wields power in this country, they certainly aren't using it to help white people. On the contrary, they libel white people as violent and oppressive despite the statistics showing the opposite.
The "white vs black" rhetoric plays out within this framework. It's been monetized by corporate power, and most of those engaging it aren't actually concerned about blacks or whites, they're just repeating what they've been told. It keeps us divided against each other so that we don't notice what's actually happening, and the rhetoric of net harms reinforces these divisions.
I actually agree with this to some extent. Power does use pre-existing racial divides as a convenient scapegoat to mask the real issues. But there's a big problem with your narrative--this stoking of racial resentment only seems to go in one direction. No one can honestly say that if these statistics showed the opposite, that white people committed 90% of interracial crime, the media wouldn't run it as a major story.
Neither Biden non Bernie support a reparations bill, and they clearly have the majority of black voters behind them. Reparations is just a purity test for the awful neoliberal candidates (e.g. Buttigieg). So again, it's a distraction.
Warren, who is the person most likely to win according to betting markets, supports reparations, along with 73% of black voters. Democrats as a whole back reparations 49-47, and that support skews younger. It's far from a distraction, it will be on the official democratic platform in the near future.
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@thett3
Aye,aye,aye
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@zedvictor4
But history was and things are now just about the same as before but in a slightly different format.
Nobody even moderately well versed in history would claim this. During the Middle Ages, in both Europe and the Islamic Caliphates, usury was outlawed. Under feudalism, people could not be evicted from their land, because land wasn't a commodity. The world 'capitalism' wasn't used until the 1600s, because the situation which it described (the access to the means of production being restricted to a small cadre of people) was a completely novel development. A world that runs on credit, with extremely mobile capital and labor and the commodification of human labor and land, would be completely alien to someone living in the medieval era, just as their world is very difficult for us to imagine.
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@ResurgetExFavilla
Yep.
Another fine history lesson.
Though when the finery of the history lesson is stripped away we are still left with a similar hierarchical society.
The same as today, but obviously in a somewhat changed format.
I was simply suggesting that it is ultimately the base realities of human nature rather than secondary concepts that define society.
And I would further suggest that the base realities of human nature are unchanging.
It was interesting to note that when this story was proven to be false, the MSM dropped the "white" from the story.
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@thett3
I actually agree with this to some extent. Power does use pre-existing racial divides as a convenient scapegoat to mask the real issues. But there's a big problem with your narrative--this stoking of racial resentment only seems to go in one direction. No one can honestly say that if these statistics showed the opposite, that white people committed 90% of interracial crime, the media wouldn't run it as a major story.
I'm not sure how you can say resentment only runs in one direction? The moment you frame an issue in terms of "white vs black," you're stoking resentment on both sides. And either way, I'm more concerned about who benefits from the resulting divisiveness. It's not whites, and it's not blacks.
You seem mostly concerned about the abuse that hides behind anti-racism, and while I share those concerns, it's important to keep sight of the bigger picture.
Warren, who is the person most likely to win according to betting markets, supports reparations, along with 73% of black voters. Democrats as a whole back reparations 49-47, and that support skews younger. It's far from a distraction, it will be on the official democratic platform in the near future.
I don't think 49% of Democrats, mostly blacks, is enough support. And it's deeply unpopular in our growing immigrant population, so I'm skeptical this'll happen. But who knows?
I'm not entirely opposed to reparations. I'd be willing to pay the price if it gets Americans to stop being so weird about race. And it's worth noting that there'd be benefits for whites too -- ending programs like affirmative action, for example. Living in a world where race doesn't matter is the ultimate objective, and that's a good thing for all of us.
As for Warren, I doubt she becomes the nominee or beats Trump. I think Biden or Bernie seems likely at this point, for reasons that polling or betting markets don't reflect. But again, who knows? Am I wrong to assume you'll vote Trump regardless?
7 days later
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@Levi
I'm not sure how you can say resentment only runs in one direction? The moment you frame an issue in terms of "white vs black," you're stoking resentment on both sides. And either way, I'm more concerned about who benefits from the resulting divisiveness. It's not whites, and it's not blacks.
Actually.....you're right. The argument destroys the divisive progressive/neoliberal narrative on race, but there's a reason it is extremely uncomfortable to make. The alt right narrative is just as toxic as the progressive narrative. I actually asked Bsh to delete this thread for this reason but he didn't want to because it would be deleting other people's content, which I understand
I'm not entirely opposed to reparations. I'd be willing to pay the price if it gets Americans to stop being so weird about race. And it's worth noting that there'd be benefits for whites too -- ending programs like affirmative action, for example. Living in a world where race doesn't matter is the ultimate objective, and that's a good thing for all of us.
I'm reasonably certain it would do the exact opposite and foster incredible amounts of resentment.
As for Warren, I doubt she becomes the nominee or beats Trump. I think Biden or Bernie seems likely at this point, for reasons that polling or betting markets don't reflect. But again, who knows? Am I wrong to assume you'll vote Trump regardless?
What are those reasons?
And I would vote for Yang over Trump because I think he would be so good for the country if it wasn't for the federal judiciary overstepping it's role to such an extreme extent and the president basically single handedly making the judiciary. Until the judges are reigned in I can't see myself voting democratic on a federal level in any circumstance.
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@thett3
My question to progressives is this: how do you reconcile the reality of crime and victimization in the United States with the narrative that white people are oppressing black people? Materially, what is it that white people currently do to black people that outweighs a net 500,000 violent crimes every single year? Please be specific.
You are absolutely correct. White Americans are the ones who are being oppressed in this country. People of color are holding us back and attempting to replace us everywhere you look. We need to unite, move to Montana, and create a separate country for ourselves.
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@thett3
My intent here is not to libel all black people as criminals, when the vast majority are not. Nor is it to fear-monger (although 500,000 violent crimes a year is not insignificant even in a country as large as ours), nor am I trying to play up white victimhood.
You're such a cuck LOL
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@FagCrusher1488
Go self destruct over your break up somewhere else
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@thett3
Until the judges are reigned in I can't see myself voting democratic on a federal level in any circumstance.
You've got it all wrong, brother. Upholding Roe vs. Wade is good because it's the only politically viable form of non-white population control.
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@thett3
LMAO shut up virgin XDGo self destruct over your break up somewhere else
73 days later
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@thett3
I am a progressive, and I think we are all one human race. I have thought this since I was 14 years old.