DEISM is functionally identical to ATHEISM

Author: 3RU7AL

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#181
Harikrish
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@Mopac
I hardly would consider a healthy fear of the truth to be  bad thing.
so you admit you fear the truth! Busted!!!

the fear of God is the beginning of all wisdom.

So you accept God is a genocidal lunatic who should be feared!!

So how do you bring yourself to love his lunatic son Jesus? The Jews rejected him.


#182
Mopac
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@3RU7AL
I don't agree at all.

And still, it is better to have the mentality of a slave to truth than say, being a slave to fornication.
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#183
3RU7AL
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@Mopac
Yeah, I'm not sure those two things are "opposites".
#184
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@3RU7AL
Perhaps you would be better off abandoning your fill in the blank method of making sense of things, because it is really bad for discernment 

#185
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@3RU7AL
To surrender your will to God, that is, be a slave to truth, is much better than being a slave to passions, urges, influences, or anything in creation.

Of course, as long as we are in the meatsuit, we are going to be in some way tied to creation. No matter how pure you get, you will still get hungry. You will always be a creature operating in the medium of creation. 


Yet filling all things is The Spirit of Truth, and not only can it be discerned, but through practice one can come to abide in it. If you love The Truth, there is a right way of doing things. That right way in practice a lot of times superficially appears to be many different paths, because we all have our own walk. We all have our own personal relationship with God in our experience. However, what is held in common is True Religion. That is, worshipping God in Spirit and in Truth. But what does that look like? The Church can teach you what this looks like, if you out of your own free will choose to be taught. Christ has a gift for you, but if you do not open your arms and accept this gift, to whom does the gift belong? 

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#186
3RU7AL
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@Mopac
Error-slave wants to be a god-slave.

You claim to be a god-slave but error-slave is not convinced.

The Hindu claims to be a god-slave but error-slave is not convinced.

The Muslim claims to be a god-slave but error-slave is not convinced.
#187
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@3RU7AL
Trust, much like love, is a choice not an emotion.

The door is always open. It is of course, your choice.
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#188
3RU7AL
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@Mopac
Trust, much like love, is a choice not an emotion.

The door is always open. It is of course, your choice.
Error-slave can only make errors.
#189
Harikrish
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@Mopac
Trust, much like love, is a choice not an emotion.

The door is always open. It is of course, your choice.
Should Jesus be trusted?

jesus by his own admission is living in his father's house and works as a house cleaner preparing rooms for guests. He promised to return to fetch his believers, but that was 2000 years ago. Doesn't he have angels to help him or that is his punishment for failing in his earthly mission to save the Jews.

Matthew 15:24 He answered, "I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel." The Romsns destroyed the nation of  Israel in 70AD.

John 14: 2 My Father’s house has many rooms; if that were not so, would I have told you that I am going there to prepare a place for you? 3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you to be with me that you also may be where I am. 


#190
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@Harikrish
Easily trust Jesus over fake spiritual leader Harikrish.


#191
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@3RU7AL
"If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness."

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#192
3RU7AL
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@Mopac
"If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness."
Step one, explicitly define "sin".
#193
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@3RU7AL
Sin literally means to miss the mark.

So to admit we have sin is to admit that we do not see things the way they  truly are, our understanding is not perfect, and we make mistakes.

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#194
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@Mopac
Sin literally means to miss the mark.
Where/what is "the mark"?

#195
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@3RU7AL
Depends on the context to get specific, but to speak broadly in a way that hopefully accounts  for all that.. The perfection of God.
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#196
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@Mopac
The perfection of God.
How do I quantify "the perfection of god" and how do I compare myself and others to "the perfection of god"?

How do I know if I've ever "missed the mark" if I've never seen "the mark"?

Do you have access to some sort of chart perhaps?  A chart would be amazing.
#197
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@3RU7AL
The measure is truth.

Imagine I have 3 cups turned over, and ask you to guess which one of these cups has a coin under it. You say that the coin is under a cup, and point to one. I show you that there is no coin under the cup, and then reveal which cup has the coin under it.

You can certainly tell that you picked the wrong cup, you were mistaken. You missed the mark. 


Much in the same way we discern that the wrong cup was chosen, we can discern our own sin and correct course. As God is The Truth, the measure is truth.


#198
secularmerlin
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@Mopac
What if there is no coin?
#199
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@secularmerlin
Then you are telling a different parable.
#200
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@Mopac
Yeah but what if he won't show you or he is a stage magician and it is a trick? 
#201
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@secularmerlin

I show you that there is no coin under the cup, and then reveal which cup has the coin under it.
#202
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@Mopac
In that case this is an extremely poor analogy for religion (though not a bad one for the scientific method). For a better analogy may I suggest this thread.


#203
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@secularmerlin
The parable was intended to demonstrate that human beings can discern the distinction between truth and falsehood.

#204
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@Mopac
We cannot do this with absolute certainty though we can have higher degrees of confidence about some things (by virtue of their being a method to test their validity) but certainty is unfeasible.
#205
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@Mopac
Discerning a distinction is one thing

Discerning a difference is something altogether different?

#206
Mopac
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@secularmerlin
Not particularly relevant. The point is that the difference between truth and falsehood is discernible. You know what truth means. You know what falsehood means. You can tell the difference between these two. You know that if you say "The coin is under this cup" and it is not, what you said is not true.


At some point, you are going to have to accept that to believe anything is a choice, and if you find yourself in the epistemological black hole, it is because you chose to put yourself there.

#207
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@Mopac
I agree if you say the coin is under the cup and it is not then you are wrong Mopac.

Where does that leave us?
#208
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@zedvictor4
The point is that you have some innate ability to distinguish reality from unreality. This ability can be exercised and improved much like any other ability.

The entire point of Orthodox discipline is to become a living icon of The Truth. A pure nous is more honest and sees more clearly than a defiled one.

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#209
3RU7AL
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@Mopac
The point is that the difference between truth and falsehood is discernible.
Not always.

You know what truth means.
REAL-TRUE-FACTS are Quantifiable and or logically necessary.

You know what falsehood means.
Qualitative, personal, experiential phenomena are neither strictly true nor strictly false.

Some (most) statements have no "truth-value".

You can tell the difference between these two. You know that if you say "The coin is under this cup" and it is not, what you said is not true.
Your example is a CATEGORY ERROR.

You're basically saying (IFF) 1 + 1 = 2 (THEN) I love you.

You can't use cups and coins (QUANTA) to "prove" "sin is real" (QUALIA).

Please provide a concrete demonstration of how I can know (for certain) if I've personally "missed god's mark".
#210
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@3RU7AL
You are misunderstanding me.

Not whether or not something is true or false, but the very ability to tell the difference between those two things. That alone right there.

You know that truth  is reality, falsehood is unreality.

And surely you can tell, because as a  human being you have inherited the knowledge of good and evil. Besides, you demonstrate that you know the difference.

I have given you enough information for you to be able to discern at least some sin. It's really easy. It becomes hard when you really start examining yourself the influences, motivations, passions, etc. that effect your ability to see the truth  clearly and honestly. That is our discipline, cleansing the nous.