DEISM is functionally identical to ATHEISM

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#151
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@Mopac
We believe that human beings are made in God's image and we consider marriage a sacred mystery. I'd say we are prohuman and profamily.
If humans first appeared in Africa. Should we assume God is Black if he made Africans in his image?
#152
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@Harikrish
Being made in God's image has little to do with the physical appearance of a man. It hss more to do with the nous.



#153
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@Mopac
Being made in God's image has little to do with the physical appearance of a man. It hss more to do with the nous.

In God's image has everything to do with physical appearance.

It was reiterated by Jesus.


John 14:9 Jesus replied, "Philip, I have been with you all this time, and still you do not know Me? Anyone who has seen Me has seen the Father. How can you say, 'Show us the Father'?


You don't really know your Bible, are you permitted to read the Bible? Catholics are discouraged from reading the bible.
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#154
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@Mopac
We believe that human beings are made in God's image and we consider marriage a sacred mystery. I'd say we are prohuman and profamily.
Well then we seem to be functionally in agreement.
#155
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@3RU7AL
We believe that human beings are made in God's image and we consider marriage a sacred mystery.
I'd say we are prohuman and profamily.Well then we seem to be functionally in agreement.
God was not profamily, prouman and neither was Jesus.

God with the Holy Spirit gang raped Mary in her sleep.
luke 1:34 How will this be,” Mary asked the angel, “since I am a virgin?”

35 The angel answered, “The Holy Spirit will come on you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you. So the holy one to be born will be called[b] the Son of God. 36 Even Elizabeth your relative is going to have a child in her old age, and she who was said to be unable to conceive is in her sixth month. 37 For no word from God will ever fail.”

38 “I am the Lord’s servant,” Mary answered. “May your word to me be fulfilled.” Then the angel left her.


jesus sought the destruction of the traditional family.

Matthew 10:35 For I have come to turn 'A man against his father, a daughter against her mother, a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law. 

Are there no scripturally literate Christians on DART?
#156
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@Harikrish
I read the entire bible straight through at least once this year. I actually know the bible.pretty well.
While The Pope was burning people at the stake for translating the bible into common vernacular, the Orthodox Church has literally invented written languages that are stilll widely used today in order to make the Bible readable.


The ancient patriarchates each used a different  language in Church. In Antioch, Syriac. In Egypt, Coptic. In Rome, Latin. In Constantinople, Greek.

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@Mopac
I read the entire bible straight through at least once this year. I actually know the bible.pretty well.
While The Pope was burning people at the stake for translating the bible into common vernacular, the Orthodox Church has literally invented written languages that are stilll widely used today in order to make the Bible readable.


The ancient patriarchates each used a different  language in Church. In Antioch, Syriac. In Egypt, Coptic. In Rome, Latin. In Constantinople, Greek.

If so then you must have come across scriptures that portray the God of the Bile as not being profamily, pro-human and neither was Jesus.
luke 1 and Matthew 10 are good examples.

if you dig further God is even portrayed as a genocidal lunatic. The orthodox view can never be reconciled with the bible.
#158
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@Harikrish
I am afraid you speak forom a position of ignorance, not of any deep insight.
#159
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@3RU7AL
Since at least the 1800s, there has been a strong effort in academia to reduce Christianity to a type of moral pietism. Even to take other faiths, find this common ground, and then assume this common ground is really the whole point of all religion and faith.

It isn't, but at least we all agree we should deal justly with one another. Well, that isn't true. We don't all agree. The love that Christ taught was to be universally applied though, as was shown in the parable of the good Samaritan, who despite belonging to a faith considered heretical by the Jews, exhibited a righteousness that surpassed that of those who were supposed to have the correct faith.





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#160
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@Mopac
...as was shown in the parable of the good Samaritan, who despite belonging to a faith considered heretical by the Jews, exhibited a righteousness that surpassed that of those who were supposed to have the correct faith.
I'm not sure this example supports your case.
#161
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@3RU7AL
"Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.
But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him."

It is the heart that God looks at. It is easy to say, "I identify as ___", but true identity is not a matter of self identification or group association. There are and will be many who identify as the right thing and belong to the right group who will in their hearts be wicked and defiled. It is no strange thing.

In spirit and in truth.

Is someone who feeds and clothes the hungry and poor in a spirit of love really functionally the same as someone who feeds and clothes the hungry and poor in a spirit of bitterness? You might say, "Yes, the poor and hungry and clothed and fed", but don't you have to ignore an awful lot of what is really going on to come to that conclusion?

An atheist lacks belief in or denies the existence of God or gods.

A deist accepts the existence of God or gods.



Say the God the deist believes in is The Ultimate Reality. 

Say the atheist outright denies the existence of the deist's God.


How can you say that belief or outright denial of The Truth doesn't have a profound effect on the psychology of an individual? Even if you can't see it, you must admit it is a sensible hypothesis.











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#162
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@Mopac
Say the god the deist believes in is NOUMENON. 

Say the atheist outright disagrees with the deist's use of the word "god" but is 100% certain that NOUMENON is a logical necessity.

Isn't that more of an ontological choice, and less of a philosophical disagreement?
#163
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A good end achieved by bad means is not functionally the same as a good end achieved by good means.

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#164
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@Mopac
A good end achieved by bad means is not functionally the same as a good end achieved by good means.
Isn't a motive to help people based on human empathy more noble than a motive to help people because of some commandment dictated on pain of eternal damnation?
#165
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@Mopac
I am afraid you speak forom a position of ignorance, not of any deep insight.

Scriptural verses of a genocidal God.

Genesis 6:7 So the LORD said, "I will wipe from the face of the earth the human race I have created--and with them the animals, the birds and the creatures that move along the ground--for I regret that I have made them.

Isaiah 24:1 Lord is going to completely destroy everything on earth.

2 Peter 3:10 The day of the Lord will come as a robber comes. The heavens will pass away with a loud noise. The sun and moon and stars will burn up. The earth and all that is in it will be burned up.

1. God drowns the whole earth.
In Genesis 7:21-23, God drowns the entire population of the earth: men, women, children, fetuses, and perhaps unicorns. Only a single family survives. In Matthew 24:37-42, gentle Jesus approves of this genocide and plans to repeat it when he returns.

2. God kills half a million people.
In 2 Chronicles 13:15-18, God helps the men of Judah kill 500,000 of their fellow Israelites.

3. God slaughters all Egyptian firstborn.
In Exodus 12:29, God the baby-killer slaughters all Egyptian firstborn children and cattle because their king was stubborn.

4. God kills 14,000 people for complaining that God keeps killing them.
In Numbers 16:41-49, the Israelites complain that God is killing too many of them. So, God sends a plague that kills 14,000 more of them.

5. Genocide after genocide after genocide.
In Joshua 6:20-21, God helps the Israelites destroy Jericho, killing "men and women, young and old, cattle, sheep and donkeys." In Deuteronomy 2:32-35, God has the Israelites kill everyone in Heshbon, including children. In Deuteronomy 3:3-7, God has the Israelites do the same to the people of Bashan. In Numbers 31:7-18, the Israelites kill all the Midianites except for the virgins, whom they take as spoils of war. In 1 Samuel 15:1-9, God tells the Israelites to kill all the Amalekites " men, women, children, infants, and their cattle " for something the Amalekites" ancestors had done 400 years earlier.

6. God kills 50,000 people for curiosity.
In 1 Samuel 6:19, God kills 50,000 men for peeking into the ark of the covenant. (Newer cosmetic translations count only 70 deaths, but their text notes admit that the best and earliest manuscripts put the number at 50,070.)

7. 3,000 Israelites killed for inventing a god.
In Exodus 32, Moses has climbed Mount Sinai to get the Ten Commandments. The Israelites are bored, so they invent a golden calf god. Moses comes back and God commands him: "Each man strap a sword to his side. Go back and forth through the camp from one end to the other, each killing his brother and friend and neighbor." About 3,000 people died.

8. The Amorites destroyed by sword and by God"s rocks.
In Joshua 10:10-11, God helps the Israelites slaughter the Amorites by sword, then finishes them off with rocks from the sky.

9. God burns two cities to death.
In Genesis 19:24, God kills everyone in Sodom and Gomorrah with fire from the sky. Then God kills Lot"s wife for looking back at her burning home.

10. God has 42 children mauled by bears.
In 2 Kings 2:23-24, some kids tease the prophet Elisha, and God sends bears to dismember them. (Newer cosmetic translations say the bears "maul" the children, but the original Hebrew, baqa, means "to tear apart.")

#166
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@Mopac

Continued from previous post.

Scriptures prove the God of the Bible was a genocidal lunatic.

11. A tribe slaughtered and their virgins raped for not showing up at roll call.
In Judges 21:1-23, a tribe of Israelites misses roll call, so the other Israelites kill them all except for the virgins, which they take for themselves. Still not happy, they hide in vineyards and pounce on dancing women from Shiloh to take them for themselves.

12. 3,000 crushed to death.
In Judges 16:27-30, God gives Samson strength to bring down a building to crush 3,000 members of a rival tribe.

13. A concubine raped and dismembered.
In Judges 19:22-29, a mob demands to rape a godly master"s guest. The master offers his daughter and a concubine to them instead. They take the concubine and gang-rape her all night. The master finds her on his doorstep in the morning, cuts her into 12 pieces, and ships the pieces around the country.

14. Child sacrifice.
In Judges 11:30-39, Jephthah burns his daughter alive as a sacrificial offering for God"s favor in killing the Ammonites.

15. God helps Samson kill 30 men because he lost a bet.
In Judges 14:11-19, Samson loses a bet for 30 sets of clothes. The spirit of God comes upon him and he kills 30 men to steal their clothes and pay off the debt.

16. God demands you kill your wife and children for worshiping other gods.
In Deuteronomy 13:6-10, God commands that you must kill your wife, children, brother, and friend if they worship other gods.

17. God incinerates 51 men to make a point.
In 2 Kings 1:9-10, Elijah gets God to burn 51 men with fire from heaven to prove he is God.

18. God kills a man for not impregnating his brother"s widow.
In Genesis 38:9-10, God kills a man for refusing to impregnate his brother"s widow.

19. God threatens forced cannibalism.
In Leviticus 26:27-29 and Jeremiah 19:9, God threatens to punish the Israelites by making them eat their own children.

20. The coming slaughter.
According to Revelation 9:7-19, God"s got more evil coming. God will make horse-like locusts with human heads and scorpion tails, who torture people for 5 months. Then some angels will kill a third of the earth"s population. If he came today, that would be 2 billion people.


Scriptural evidence that God was a liar and lunatic too.

God lies and sends prophets or lying spirits to deceive.

1 Kings 22:23
Now therefore, behold, the LORD hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of all these thy prophets, and the LORD hath spoken evil concerning thee.

2 Chronicles 18:22
Now therefore, behold, the LORD hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of these thy prophets, and the LORD hath spoken evil against thee.

Jeremiah 4:10
Then said I, Ah, Lord GOD! surely thou hast greatly deceived this people and Jerusalem, saying, Ye shall have peace; whereas the sword reacheth unto the soul.

Jeremiah 20:7
O LORD, thou hast deceived me, and I was deceived: thou art stronger than I, and hast prevailed: I am in derision daily, every one mocketh me.

Ezekiel 14:9
And if the prophet be deceived when he hath spoken a thing, I the LORD have deceived that prophet, and I will stretch out my hand upon him, and will destroy him from the midst of my people Israel.

2 Thessalonians 2:11
And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

#167
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@3RU7AL
There are 3 types of believers according to Saint Basil.

Those who are motivated by fear of hell are like slaves.
Those who are motivated by reward of heaven are like mercenaries.
Then there are those who are motivated by love of God, these are as children of God.

So it is wrong to say we simlly act out of fear of damnnation.




#168
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@Harikrish
I am not going to sort through the skeptics annotated bible for you, especially since you are not interested in being corrected.

#169
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@Mopac
There are 3 types of believers according to Saint Basil.

Those who are motivated by fear of hell are like slaves.
Those who are motivated by reward of heaven are like mercenaries.
Then there are those who are motivated by love of God, these are as children of God.

So it is wrong to say we simlly act out of fear of damnnation.

If you are damned in hell none of the other types matter. Critical thinking!!!
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#170
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@Mopac
There are 3 types of believers according to Saint Basil.

Those who are motivated by fear of hell are like slaves.
Those who are motivated by reward of heaven are like mercenaries.
Then there are those who are motivated by love of God, these are as children of God.

So it is wrong to say we simlly act out of fear of damnnation.
This should be your signature move.
#171
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@3RU7AL
Why do you say that?
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#172
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@Mopac
Why do you say that?
Because it's the most compelling statement I've seen from you.
#173
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@3RU7AL
That was Saint Basil the great, not me. He is a church father. I am certain if you were more familiar with the writings of the church, you would find a great deal more that is edifying in its profundity.


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#174
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@Mopac
Those who are motivated by fear of hell are like slaves.
Not me.

Those who are motivated by reward of heaven are like mercenaries.
Not me.

Then there are those who are motivated by HUMAN EMPATHY, these are as children of NOUMENON.
Bingo!
#175
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@3RU7AL
Human empathy only goes as far as your ability to emphasis.

Apparations of the mind cannot be God, as they are a contingent existence.


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#176
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@Mopac
Human empathy only goes as far as your ability to emphasis.Apparations of the mind cannot be God, as they are a contingent existence.
Whatever.

At least WE AGREE that all the "heaven and hell" stuff only makes people into slaves and mercenaries (so maybe everyone should redact those references).
#177
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@3RU7AL
Not at all, because we certainly believe there is heaven and hell. If fear of hell or promise of paradise is what some peopke need in order to take God seriously, I can't say I am one to judge. It may be a stepping stone for them to love God for who  God is.

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#178
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@Mopac
Not at all, because we certainly believe there is heaven and hell. If fear of hell or promise of paradise is what some peopke need in order to take God seriously, I can't say I am one to judge. It may be a stepping stone for them to love God for who  God is.
There's already a name for slaves who "learn to love" their slave-masters.

It's called, "Stockholm Syndrome". [WIKI]

You'd think that if your hypothetical god was so smart, they'd know that already.
#179
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@3RU7AL
I hardly woild consider a healthy fear of The Truth to be a bad thing. Indeed, the fear of God is the beginning of all wisdom.
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#180
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@Mopac
At least WE AGREE that all the "heaven and hell" stuff only makes people into slaves and mercenaries.