Theistic evolution.

Author: Dynasty

Posts

Total: 37
Dynasty
Dynasty's avatar
Debates: 11
Posts: 220
1
1
7
Dynasty's avatar
Dynasty
1
1
7
Let's talk about it.
Deb-8-a-bull
Deb-8-a-bull's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 3,205
3
2
3
Deb-8-a-bull's avatar
Deb-8-a-bull
3
2
3
-->
@Dynasty
Firstly. Hi Die Nasty. Welcome. 
Nice. 

I read the post title and it tripped my think.  ( it's oxymoronish )  Theistic evolution. 
It's like ummmm Biblical Scholar. 

I want to now say " Atheistic creationist "

It's like if you are a Mormon anddddddddddd you are down with the EVO. 
You cant call yourself Mormon evolution. You aint no Catholic evolutionist, You are a  "Theistic" 
Well Christians cant decide if the are theistic or not but that's another post. 

Theistic evolution is a way to be able to lie to yourself. 

T E is a theist that believes in God did the evolution thing. 

Being T E means you are not happy with God making everything 6000 years old. 

And heapssssssss of other things but.
But.
It is more to the truth then being just theistic. ( i believe ) 

Being aTheistic evolutionary or whatever they are calling it  is like saying,  you're intelligent,  but a different type of intelligent. ( shout out to disgusted ) 

Being  T E pretty much means you are giving up a chance of living in heaven with a jesus for eternity for simply believing in evolution. 

It sounds like you want to be a atheist that believes in God and that's cool . 

Mopac
Mopac's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 8,050
3
4
7
Mopac's avatar
Mopac
3
4
7
If evolution is a reality, of course God did it.
Stronn
Stronn's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 511
2
2
4
Stronn's avatar
Stronn
2
2
4
-->
@Dynasty
How would you distinguish theistic evolution from non-theistic evolution?
ludofl3x
ludofl3x's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 2,071
3
2
2
ludofl3x's avatar
ludofl3x
3
2
2
-->
@Stronn
@Mopac
If he did it, then why would he lie about it in the bible and just say he created things whole cloth?

How would you distinguish theistic evolution from non-theistic evolution?
By saying "god started it," rather than "don't know what started it," as far as I can tell, without any justification for asserting such. 
Mopac
Mopac's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 8,050
3
4
7
Mopac's avatar
Mopac
3
4
7
-->
@ludofl3x
The bible is intended to be a witness to The Truth, it is supposed to point to The Truth.

Evolution can not exist apart from The Truth.



ludofl3x
ludofl3x's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 2,071
3
2
2
ludofl3x's avatar
ludofl3x
3
2
2
-->
@Mopac
So if evolution is true, which the overwhelming majority of evidence indicates, then why isn't it mentioned in the bible at all? Like not even a little? 

I didn't miss your double talking pompous nonsense. Isn't there a feast of St. Smithens coming up you have to give up talking on this board for soon?
Mopac
Mopac's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 8,050
3
4
7
Mopac's avatar
Mopac
3
4
7
-->
@ludofl3x
Why would it be mentioned in the bible? It isn't important.

Yet we both understand that animals came before people.

Mopac
Mopac's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 8,050
3
4
7
Mopac's avatar
Mopac
3
4
7
This is the church and religion forum.

If anyone is out of place here it is the atheist. Yet for some reason, so many atheists want the board to themselves. Strange indeed.

Deb-8-a-bull
Deb-8-a-bull's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 3,205
3
2
3
Deb-8-a-bull's avatar
Deb-8-a-bull
3
2
3
-->
@Mopac
If the earth is 6000 year old 
I'm  allowed to prove evolution by Television sets. ( how they evolved from small black and whites with fat backs with trinatron and stereo sound. To the thin , no edge curved 12k ones of today.
Evolution. 

No but mopac. When you say , " animals come before people "  thats wrong in so many ways but lets go with it. 
Was it animals Wednesday , humans on Saturday ?

Has every animal walked the earth,  swum whatever , has every animal been on earth the same as each other. ? 






 
Stronn
Stronn's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 511
2
2
4
Stronn's avatar
Stronn
2
2
4
-->
@ludofl3x
What I mant was, what characteristics would we expect theisttic evolution to have that non-theistic evolution would not,and vice versa.

If they both look the same, then in practice they are functionally equivalent.
ludofl3x
ludofl3x's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 2,071
3
2
2
ludofl3x's avatar
ludofl3x
3
2
2
-->
@Stronn
what characteristics would we expect theisttic evolution to have that non-theistic evolution would not,and vice versa.

The characteristic that would distinguish the two is simple: Jesus did it. Otherwise you're right, they are exactly the same thing! Are you saying adding Jesus to the mix only introduces something that can't be proven? Sort of like how atheism and deism are the exact same thing, except one says "probably some being created the universe" and the other says "don't know, convince me."
Mopac
Mopac's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 8,050
3
4
7
Mopac's avatar
Mopac
3
4
7
-->
@Deb-8-a-bull
The age of the Earth, the process by which God does things in the world... none of this stuff is really that important to know. 
Deb-8-a-bull
Deb-8-a-bull's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 3,205
3
2
3
Deb-8-a-bull's avatar
Deb-8-a-bull
3
2
3
-->
@Mopac
Oh it is NOT AT ALLLLLLLLL IMPORTANT. 

HEY LOOK , WHAT'S THAT....
LOOK.

'Sneaks away'

Deb-8-a-bull
Deb-8-a-bull's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 3,205
3
2
3
Deb-8-a-bull's avatar
Deb-8-a-bull
3
2
3
WTF was that about.? 

.
Hey Picture a Magical theistical evolution documentary  
WoW hey.. 

Animation? 


Dr.Franklin
Dr.Franklin's avatar
Debates: 32
Posts: 10,673
4
7
11
Dr.Franklin's avatar
Dr.Franklin
4
7
11
Possible
BrotherDThomas
BrotherDThomas's avatar
Debates: 2
Posts: 2,140
3
3
7
BrotherDThomas's avatar
BrotherDThomas
3
3
7



MOPAC'S QUOTE:  "The age of the Earth, the process by which God does things in the world... none of this stuff is really that important to know. "

Mopac, which isn't the normal pattern, is correct with his statement in that it matters not the age of the earth, BUT, instead the age of man, where it is approximately 6000 years old from Adam to Jesus to the present day, praise!  Therefore, the dinosaurs existed within this 6k time period, and all of Yahweh's Jewish Creation as well!   Simple math for the TRUE Christian to understand!



.



Dynasty
Dynasty's avatar
Debates: 11
Posts: 220
1
1
7
Dynasty's avatar
Dynasty
1
1
7
-->
@Stronn
You do know that there are theories of evolution, right?
Dynasty
Dynasty's avatar
Debates: 11
Posts: 220
1
1
7
Dynasty's avatar
Dynasty
1
1
7
-->
@Deb-8-a-bull
It's not a oxymoron. Also, how am I lying to myself? And, Bible doesn't say that the earth is 6000 years old. In fact, YEC wasn't thing until around the 19th century.
Stronn
Stronn's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 511
2
2
4
Stronn's avatar
Stronn
2
2
4
-->
@ludofl3x
Yes, pretty much, although I n also curious whether any theist thinks they have a way to distinguish the two.

If theistic evolution looks exactly like non-theistic evolution, then Occam's Razor would dictate that we prefer the non-theistic version

Stronn
Stronn's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 511
2
2
4
Stronn's avatar
Stronn
2
2
4
-->
@Dynasty
There  have been many candidate theories of evolution. Most are now disregarded because they did not fit with observation. 

Theories under serious consideration by the scientific community today tend to differ only in  how much they emphasize the relative importance of a particular  mechanism of genetic change. 

 
keithprosser
keithprosser's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 3,052
3
3
3
keithprosser's avatar
keithprosser
3
3
3
-->
@Mopac
This is the church and religion forum.
If anyone is out of place here it is the atheist. Yet for some reason, so many atheists want the board to themselves. Strange indeed.
I doubt the owners, developers or moderators of this site would agree.

EtrnlVw
EtrnlVw's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 2,869
3
3
5
EtrnlVw's avatar
EtrnlVw
3
3
5
-->
@Stronn
Yes, pretty much, although I n also curious whether any theist thinks they have a way to distinguish the two.
What I mant was, what characteristics would we expect theisttic evolution to have that non-theistic evolution would not,and vice versa.
If they both look the same, then in practice they are functionally equivalent.
If we are saying that the Creator uses the processes of evolution to create forms and embodiments then that is what we would see, why would it "look" any different? the point is that processes don't occur without intelligence so we begin with common sense, matter does not create consciousness or awareness ect ect. Theistic evolution would look just like what we observe through the scientific method, it's only that atheists and materialists interpret that process differently, without observing the intelligence within the processes of what we see currently. IRL (what we directly observe) processes occur by way of awareness, which generates a plan then an execution of that plan.

This is why I point out the very nature of energy and how it operates in creation....what it PRODUCES. This is your first clue, one that should be seriously considered. Energy produces intelligence, but energy COMES from intelligence, or rather it's intelligence behind it or what manipulates it to generate processes, despite all the misconception God doesn't poof things into existence, it's a process to get from pure awareness to energy then to creation. Now, why does energy even exist at all? what is it?? why does it produce things?

We are basically saying that non-theistic evolution does not occur, the processes we observe are established by a Creator. Energy exists because conscious activity exists, they are both eternal and they are not created or destroyed, actually they co-exist. Out of this comes creation, so it's consciousness=energy=creation. Creation is a process to get from one point to the other, we observe these processes through evolution. Evolution happens everywhere all the time in all states of awareness and conscious activity, the term evolution can be replaced with process and it's this process that first comes out of consciousness, intelligence or a mind, whatever you want to call that which is aware.
So it's not that it would look any different, not at all, it is by this very action that we observe as intelligent processes. I mean how obvious can you get? look at our own solar system...it just happens to have a huge heat and light source right in the middle, another dimmer light source (reflection I should say) so we can have nights without total darkness, we have the formation of giant rocks we call planets that orbit in patterns, the earth with oceans and land, all the right ingredients needed to begin to sustain awareness through form, create embodiments through evolution, and sustain souls that we can experience this planet. I mean you just have to look at as a whole, look how it all fits, if you just focus squarely on the actual process you lose the bigger picture. 
This is not an argument to believe in the Creator, I'm just pointing out the obvious, the logical because it just happens to fit. It's intelligence that generates processes, not matter, that's looking at it azz backwards. It's first intelligence (awareness) then process (evolution) then the final product. 
Deb-8-a-bull
Deb-8-a-bull's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 3,205
3
2
3
Deb-8-a-bull's avatar
Deb-8-a-bull
3
2
3
-->
@EtrnlVw
Nice post man.

I'm going to go over it again.  In search of something outlandish. 
Go day mate. 


SkepticalOne
SkepticalOne's avatar
Debates: 9
Posts: 1,720
3
3
7
SkepticalOne's avatar
SkepticalOne
3
3
7
-->
@Mopac
This is the church and religion forum.

If anyone is out of place here it is the atheist. Yet for some reason, so many atheists want the board to themselves. Strange indeed.
Isn't it funny that the presence of atheists in this forum is often objected to by theists (and not the other way around), yet....somehow, atheists want the board to themselves? 
Mopac
Mopac's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 8,050
3
4
7
Mopac's avatar
Mopac
3
4
7
-->
@SkepticalOne
I don't care that atheists are here, they should be.

But since there are so many people who tell me to lesve, I just don't see it.

SkepticalOne
SkepticalOne's avatar
Debates: 9
Posts: 1,720
3
3
7
SkepticalOne's avatar
SkepticalOne
3
3
7
-->
@Mopac
But since there are so many people who tell me to lesve, I just don't see it.
I've not seen anyone asking you to leave, but assuming this has happened often...are these "people" all atheists? 

Mopac
Mopac's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 8,050
3
4
7
Mopac's avatar
Mopac
3
4
7
-->
@SkepticalOne
It is hard to find atheists who openly admit that they do not believe in the existence of Ultimate Reality. Many of them make it clear that they believe there is Ultimate Reality. That being the case, when atheists deny The One True God, I can't help but discern that they don't understand what they are denying.

SkepticalOne
SkepticalOne's avatar
Debates: 9
Posts: 1,720
3
3
7
SkepticalOne's avatar
SkepticalOne
3
3
7
-->
@Mopac
That's not an answer to my question.
Mopac
Mopac's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 8,050
3
4
7
Mopac's avatar
Mopac
3
4
7
-->
@SkepticalOne
If you take self declaration as proof of identity, but then we are treading into dangerous ground.