Hurricane Dorians Pahway. to Alabama { NOT } :--(

Author: ebuc

Posts

Total: 152
#61
bmdrocks21
bmdrocks21's avatar
Debates: 6
Posts: 2,798
4
6
11
bmdrocks21's avatar
bmdrocks21
4
6
11
-->
@Pinkfreud08
Um false, Johnson refused to change interest rates and the result was rising inflation as he came in to office. Not to mention the relatively huge deficits that Johnson ran, which Nixon got under control. You think that creating medicare and medicaid had no effect on the incoming president? 
#62
Greyparrot
Greyparrot's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 25,985
3
4
10
Greyparrot's avatar
Greyparrot
3
4
10
-->
@bmdrocks21
Nixon had the same failed policies as Carter did when it came to price controls which led to agonizing energy shortages. It was a big deal to the voters.
#63
bmdrocks21
bmdrocks21's avatar
Debates: 6
Posts: 2,798
4
6
11
bmdrocks21's avatar
bmdrocks21
4
6
11
-->
@Greyparrot
Nixon won 520 electoral votes.
#64
Pinkfreud08
Pinkfreud08's avatar
Debates: 17
Posts: 578
2
7
11
Pinkfreud08's avatar
Pinkfreud08
2
7
11
-->
@ILikePie5
If you’re popular in NY, TX, CA, and FL you can ignore the rest of the country.
Lumping two liberal states, a swing state, and a Republican stronghold together and acting as if any voter would appeal to all 4 states completely is a false analogy. 

So if a recession comes it’ll be Obama’s fault right?
Depends when it happens, 3 years isn't enough however if Trump does get re-elected it'll likely happen sometime during his second term if it does happen. 

This is too vague of a scenario however and Obama's policies have been policies that pulled the United States out of the great recession in the first place as Obama made our GDP go from -2.5 % at the start of his presidency to 4.2 % by the end of his second term. Therefore it's unlikely this is going to be happening. 

If a recession happened let's say tomorrow for instance than most likely it would be Obama's fault as it hasn't been long enough to determine the merit of the Trump economy. Although it does depend on the specifics of the recession.

You mean liberals in California and New York?
You do understand that California and New York don't equate to the majority of the country right? Especially considering that while these states are by far liberal strongholds, they do have a chunk of republicans in these states. 

While the popular vote system isn't perfect, it's better than the electoral college as at least votes aren't silenced based on location and certain states which don't represent the majority of the country aren't given absurd power. 


Broken when it doesn’t benefit you huh

Ok, and it isn't broken when it benefits you. 

What's your point? 

Approval rating is from polling which has proven time and time again that when it comes to Trump it’s unreliable.
Care to elaborate? And even if you want to completely ignore approval ratings, you can't ignore that Trump didn't win the popular vote and thus didn't appeal to the majority of voters. 

 Furthermore me disapproving him doesn’t mean I won’t vote for him. I can hate him as a person but his ideology still aligns with mine and therefore I’ll vote for him.

Considering that the data I provided previously also cited disapproval ratings being significantly higher than approval ratings, this doesn't make sense what so ever. 

You also haven't proved that people hate him as a person but agree with his politics. 

Especially considering the majority of the country are democrats when taking into account the approval rating and the popular vote. 
#65
Snoopy
Snoopy's avatar
Debates: 1
Posts: 1,320
2
2
4
Snoopy's avatar
Snoopy
2
2
4
-->
@Pinkfreud08
While the popular vote system isn't perfect, it's better than the electoral college as at least votes aren't silenced based on location and certain states which don't represent the majority of the country aren't given absurd power. 
Petition your state representatives to adjust the rules of the electoral college so that the votes cast are proportional to the popular vote of your state.

#66
Pinkfreud08
Pinkfreud08's avatar
Debates: 17
Posts: 578
2
7
11
Pinkfreud08's avatar
Pinkfreud08
2
7
11
-->
@bmdrocks21
If your point is that Nixons failed economy is in part due to the previous presidency, ok I agree with you. However as I already stated, while Nixon did inherit a bad economy he worsened the economy.

Both of you are acting as if I am on Carter's side when I have already stated I am not. 

The entire point I am making is that it's a false analogy to blame Carter's presidency for the sole reason for an economic collapse when there is obviously a huger cause for this economic collapse. 

Which in turn makes his analogy false and only proves my point even further. 


#67
Pinkfreud08
Pinkfreud08's avatar
Debates: 17
Posts: 578
2
7
11
Pinkfreud08's avatar
Pinkfreud08
2
7
11
-->
@Snoopy
I mean quite honestly the electoral college's days seem to be almost over considering the vast amount of 2020 democrats who want to reform it or are open to reforming it. 

It's quite frankly only a matter of time it's reformed. Although currently, the electoral college isn't the central issue for the democrat's campaigns as they're focusing on climate change and healthcare. Which to be fair are probably greater issues to me than the electoral college is. Don't get me wrong the electoral college is defiatly a huge issue for me however I feel as though climate change, healthcare, and the education system must be fixed first. 


#68
bmdrocks21
bmdrocks21's avatar
Debates: 6
Posts: 2,798
4
6
11
bmdrocks21's avatar
bmdrocks21
4
6
11
-->
@Pinkfreud08
While I agree not to put the entire weight of success or failure at the foot of one president, I think you are wrong. Obama had eight years to fix the economy. He did so very slowly, the slowest recovery from a recession since the Great Depression. Trump inherited an economy that just got out of a recession, so we cannot judge them directly. However, he is setting record highs. Trump is rather pro business, with low taxes and low regulation. I think that strategy beats Obama's high taxes, high regulation, and subsidies. 
#69
Greyparrot
Greyparrot's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 25,985
3
4
10
Greyparrot's avatar
Greyparrot
3
4
10
-->
@bmdrocks21
Nixon had alot of positive things to counter with too.
#70
bmdrocks21
bmdrocks21's avatar
Debates: 6
Posts: 2,798
4
6
11
bmdrocks21's avatar
bmdrocks21
4
6
11
-->
@Greyparrot
I will admit, I wasn't entirely pleased with his economic decisions. Some were okay, some(like the price controls you mentioned) didn't really help. 
#71
Greyparrot
Greyparrot's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 25,985
3
4
10
Greyparrot's avatar
Greyparrot
3
4
10
-->
@Pinkfreud08
Electoral abolishment via constitutional change will never make it through the Senate for obvious reasons.
#72
ILikePie5
ILikePie5's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 15,167
3
7
10
ILikePie5's avatar
ILikePie5
3
7
10
-->
@Pinkfreud08
Lumping two liberal states, a swing state, and a Republican stronghold together and acting as if any voter would appeal to all 4 states completely is a false analogy. 

That’s besides the point. The point is that states with higher populations will be targeted while smaller states with smaller populations will be left unattended. It’s merely a coincidence that a majority of smaller states vote GOP right?

Depends when it happens, 3 years isn't enough however if Trump does get re-elected it'll likely happen sometime during his second term if it does happen. 

This is too vague of a scenario however and Obama's policies have been policies that pulled the United States out of the great recession in the first place as Obama made our GDP go from -2.5 % at the start of his presidency to 4.2 % by the end of his second term. Therefore it's unlikely this is going to be happening. 

If a recession happened let's say tomorrow for instance than most likely it would be Obama's fault as it hasn't been long enough to determine the merit of the Trump economy. Although it does depend on the specifics of the recession.

You and I both know that the media will blame Trump no matter when it happens, so you can cut the bs. Attributing the economy to Obama is ridiculous. Stocks surged massively after Trump was elected, not before. 

You do understand that California and New York don't equate to the majority of the country right? Especially considering that while these states are by far liberal strongholds, they do have a chunk of republicans in these states. 

While the popular vote system isn't perfect, it's better than the electoral college as at least votes aren't silenced based on location and certain states which don't represent the majority of the country aren't given absurd power. 
Whats concerning is that these two states accounted for 1/5 of Hillary Clinton’s popular vote. It was a 65-30 voting line. Plus there are significantly more registered Democrats in both states. If anything the popular vote silences votes. Why tf would I travel 20 miles to vote in North Dakota if some coastal elite is going to decide my fate anyways. Smaller states inherently lose say in the election process. Furthermore with the popular vote, you are bringing the tyranny of the majority onto the minority. 50% and one shouldn’t determine the winner. A combined set of demographics should which is only possible with an electoral college.

Ok, and it isn't broken when it benefits you. 

What's your point? 

Republicans have never called for the EC to be abolished even when it doesn’t benefit them. Democrats on the other hand have. The fact is we are a constitutional republic. Direct vote was never intended as a method to achieve the Presidency by the founding fathers. Since the big states would more than nullify the votes of smaller states due to shear size.

Care to elaborate? And even if you want to completely ignore approval ratings, you can't ignore that Trump didn't win the popular vote and thus didn't appeal to the majority of voters. 
Yes. Trump won Wisconsin by 0.7 but it was predicted to go to Hillary by 6.5. Win MI and PA by 5 and 2 respectively. Trump won them all. Trump supporters like myself clearly don’t tell pollsters we’re voting for Trump but in Election Day we come out. That’s why we’re a part of the silent majority.
Your argument lies upon the basis that the country should act upon the will of the majority which is not how the Founding Fathers approached it. Madison specifically wrote that he wanted to prevent both the majority and minority from having total power. The EC serves as a check and second opinion. If the popular sentiment is true then the EC will go to the majority. However, if there is genuine concern about the tyranny of the majority, the minority will organize in response and have a shot at victory as well.

Considering that the data I provided previously also cited disapproval ratings being significantly higher than approval ratings, this doesn't make sense what so ever. 

You also haven't proved that people hate him as a person but agree with his politics. 
I can point you to Mitch McConnell, the Senate Majority Leader. In 2012 during his re-election his approval was 37-55. But he ended up winning by 10 against Alison Lundergren Grimes. Approval rating don’t mean anything and are likely false based on what I said above. Mitch McConnell has worse approvals than Trump but was easily re-elected. Voters don’t care about liking the candidate, they vote based on policy. And remember the majority doesn’t have to like him. As long as a sufficient minority does, then he’ll win. Majority doesn’t always equal victory in the US, it’s the way the Founders framed the Constitution.
#73
ILikePie5
ILikePie5's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 15,167
3
7
10
ILikePie5's avatar
ILikePie5
3
7
10
-->
@Greyparrot
Electoral abolishment via constitutional change will never make it through the Senate for obvious reasons.

Forget about the Senate, it’ll never be ratified by 3/4 of the states.
#74
Pinkfreud08
Pinkfreud08's avatar
Debates: 17
Posts: 578
2
7
11
Pinkfreud08's avatar
Pinkfreud08
2
7
11
-->
@bmdrocks21
Considering that the great recession was looked at as even greater a threat than the great depression, it's actually a miracle we recovered so quickly. 

Economies don't just fix themselves in 2-3 years, it took a full 10 years before we climbed ourselves out of the great depression. 6 years going from a -2.5 GDP growth too 4.2 is very impressive and is largely due to Obama's economy, not Trumps. 

. Trump is rather pro business, with low taxes and low regulation. I think that strategy beats Obama's high taxes, high regulation, and subsidies. 
Considering that Obama got us out of arguably the greatest recession the nations saw in just 6 years, this argument makes no sense. 

Especially considering FDR with his liberal policies climbed us out of the great depression. 

Although this is overall almost irrelevant and we won't know how well Trumps economy will fair in a good 2-3 more years. 



#75
Pinkfreud08
Pinkfreud08's avatar
Debates: 17
Posts: 578
2
7
11
Pinkfreud08's avatar
Pinkfreud08
2
7
11
-->
@Greyparrot
Electoral abolishment via constitutional change will never make it through the Senate for obvious reasons.


Not backed up by statistical data at all, according to this source 55 % of Americans wish to abolish the electoral college. 
#76
ILikePie5
ILikePie5's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 15,167
3
7
10
ILikePie5's avatar
ILikePie5
3
7
10
-->
@Pinkfreud08
Not backed up by statistical data at all, according to this source 55 % of Americans wish to abolish the electoral college. 

It doesn’t matter, it won’t be ratified by the states. 22 states have Republican trifectas and 14 are Solid Republican States - WV, SC, AL, MS, LA, AR, TN, MO, NE, SD, ND, WY, ID, UT. (You need 38 states to ratify).

Your statistics are misleading.
#77
Pinkfreud08
Pinkfreud08's avatar
Debates: 17
Posts: 578
2
7
11
Pinkfreud08's avatar
Pinkfreud08
2
7
11
-->
@ILikePie5
Considering the majority of Americans want it to be abolished, it's only a matter of time before the electoral college is ratified. Eventually, the Republican states will be pressured to it. 

The republicans have fluctuated between supporting the abolition and wanting to keep it. 

As of right now, Republicans want to keep it however just a few years ago the majority didn't want to keep it. 

It isn't that impossible as you say it's, although it won't be happening soon eventually it's very likely it will occur. 

Even if it isn't likely to be ratified, that doesn't invalidate my overall argument concerning the electoral college. 


#78
Greyparrot
Greyparrot's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 25,985
3
4
10
Greyparrot's avatar
Greyparrot
3
4
10
-->
@Pinkfreud08
But not 55% of the states. Zero chance the smaller states will allow this to happen when they have equal say in the senate.

Simply having a majority of people living in large states wanting it abolished won't make it so in the Senate.

WE DON'T HAVE Mob Rule. And you won't be able to rewrite the constitution with mob rule as long as the Senate exists.
#79
Pinkfreud08
Pinkfreud08's avatar
Debates: 17
Posts: 578
2
7
11
Pinkfreud08's avatar
Pinkfreud08
2
7
11
-->
@ILikePie5
The point is that states with higher populations will be targeted while smaller states with smaller populations will be left unattended.

Again, never stated it was perfect. 

However it's important the majority of the country is represented and personally I'd rather see candidates cater to a few states but be more representative than to see a few states but to see it less representative. 

Besides again states such as California, New York, and Texas aren't 100 % red so you can't act as if the entire states would vote for a candidate when these states still have large percentages of the minority party. 

 It’s merely a coincidence that a majority of smaller states vote GOP right?
And what's your point? That I am somehow biased and am unsatisfied with the system ONLY because of the fact that Democrats are at a disadvantage? 

This couldn't be further from the truth, if the roles were reversed I'd STILL support the abolition of the electoral college. 

You can't read my mind and just assume that I am against the electoral college out of some bias, so please refrain from making baseless assumptions on my character. 

You and I both know that the media will blame Trump no matter when it happens, so you can cut the bs
Provide me statistics or studies on the media bias and I'll believe it. 

Besides are you suggesting the votes were rigged popular vote wise? 

However, just for fun, I'll assume there is a media bias against Trump. 

Well according to Fox News, Trump's approval rating on their polling is still at 43 % approval and 56 % disapproval. Even worse numbers than the other site I cited. 

Attributing the economy to Obama is ridiculous. Stocks surged massively after Trump was elected, not before. 
No source cited and isn't backed up by statistical data. 

According to CBS, the GDP rising from Obama started at -2.5 at the beginning and surged to 4.2 % towards the last two years.

Why tf would I travel 20 miles to vote in North Dakota if some coastal elite is going to decide my fate anyways.
 Because your vote is exactly the same as the coastal elite. 

If your concern is about smaller states, why are you supporting the electoral college when the graph I cited proves that smaller states such as North Dakota aren't visited at all under the electoral college. At least under a popular vote, their votes are equal to those in bigger states and aren't silenced. 

Besides, you really believe the majority of Californians are simply coastal elites? Are you going to completely ignore the working class in California which makes up the majority of the population? Not just in California but in the entirety of the United States? 

This is a pretty bold claim, where is the statistical data that proves this? 






#80
Greyparrot
Greyparrot's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 25,985
3
4
10
Greyparrot's avatar
Greyparrot
3
4
10
-->
@Pinkfreud08
Provide me statistics or studies on the media bias and I'll believe it. 
Hang on, I think I might be able to find the study that shows 90% unfavorable media coverage.
#81
Greyparrot
Greyparrot's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 25,985
3
4
10
Greyparrot's avatar
Greyparrot
3
4
10
-->
@Pinkfreud08

Pew research pie graphs here. for 1st 60 days. I'll keep digging for 3-year stats.
#82
Pinkfreud08
Pinkfreud08's avatar
Debates: 17
Posts: 578
2
7
11
Pinkfreud08's avatar
Pinkfreud08
2
7
11
-->
@ILikePie5
 Furthermore with the popular vote, you are bringing the tyranny of the majority onto the minority. 50% and one shouldn’t determine the winner.
And with the electoral college, a small fraction of the united states is dictating the majority of the United State's fate. 

If you're concerned about minority representation than why are you essentially supporting votes being silenced in stronghold states such as California or new york? 

 A combined set of demographics should which is only possible with an electoral college.
No source cited to back this up. 

Republicans have never called for the EC to be abolished even when it doesn’t benefit them.
No source cited. The statistics I've mentioned earlier contradicts this as in 2012 half of republicans supported the abolition of the electoral college however once Trump won because of it, that shifted. If you ask I can provide a specific statistic however I'll have to dig through my search history. 

The fact is we are a constitutional republic. Direct vote was never intended as a method to achieve the Presidency by the founding fathers.
Not backed up by the government what so ever. 

According to this source, it reads, 

The United States is a federal republic and a constitutional representative democracy.
The article goes in-depth on what it means by a federal republic and representative democracy so I suggest you read it fully. 

Essentially, voting according to the constitution comes in the form of representative democracy. 

Nextly another source by the United States Government in the form of a PDF reads that the United States is a representative democracy. 

I would link it however it's a PDF however just look this up on google and it should be the 1st result. 

"Is the united states a representative democracy?"


That’s why we’re a part of the silent majority.

*minority 

Your argument lies upon the basis that the country should act upon the will of the majority which is not how the Founding Fathers approached it.
Clearly they did as the constitution dictates that we're a representative democracy which is essentially acted by the rule of the majority voting on lawmakers. 

 However, if there is genuine concern about the tyranny of the majority, the minority will organize in response and have a shot at victory as well.
The data I've previously cited paints an entirely different picture considering the majority of votes are being silenced. 

. In 2012 during his re-election his approval was 37-55.
Anecdotal claim. 

 Voters don’t care about liking the candidate, they vote based on policy.
You're once again ignoring the fact that voters don't care for Trump's conservative policies as demonstrated by not only the approval rating but by the popular vote. Not to mention considering the fact that as demonstrated by the popular vote and different polls, the majority of the United States are democrats. 
#83
Pinkfreud08
Pinkfreud08's avatar
Debates: 17
Posts: 578
2
7
11
Pinkfreud08's avatar
Pinkfreud08
2
7
11
-->
@Greyparrot
While you've certainly proved the majority of America hates Trump, this doesn't lead to the assumption it's based on prejudice.

bias
bi·as | \ ˈbī-əs  \
Definition of bias
 (Entry 1 of 4)
1a: an inclination of temperament or outlookespecially : a personal and sometimes unreasoned judgment : PREJUDICE

Especially considering the polling I've cited shows that the approval rating dropped once Trump took the presidency. 

Besides this is also disproven as even Fox News polling demonstrates that Trump's approval rating is low. 
#84
Pinkfreud08
Pinkfreud08's avatar
Debates: 17
Posts: 578
2
7
11
Pinkfreud08's avatar
Pinkfreud08
2
7
11
I'll have to continue this conversation sometime tomorrow as I should be going to sleep tomorrow and have a few tests and AP work this week. 

I will attempt to respond to future arguments ASAP as I am greatly enjoying this conversation. 

#85
Greyparrot
Greyparrot's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 25,985
3
4
10
Greyparrot's avatar
Greyparrot
3
4
10
-->
@Pinkfreud08
While you've certainly proved the majority of THE MEDIA hates Trump, this doesn't lead to the assumption it's based on prejudice.
Fixed that for you since you misread the pie charts.

#86
TheDredPriateRoberts
TheDredPriateRoberts's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 3,383
3
3
6
TheDredPriateRoberts's avatar
TheDredPriateRoberts
3
3
6
-->
@Castin
the problem is, for many imo, there's isn't a better choice in 2020.  IF (big if) the democrats didn't go full socialist-tard, pander ad-nauseam and actually cared about the general public rather than "special" groups they probably could have converted a bunch of voters.  But that's not their game plan.  It's control, control, control.  None of them actually want to help the U.S. they just want to get elected.
Topic's author
#87
ebuc
ebuc's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 4,920
3
2
4
ebuc's avatar
ebuc
3
2
4
-->
@TheDredPriateRoberts
the problem is, for many imo, there's isn't a better choice in 2020.
No better choice than Trump . Stronn, you have your head in a hole-in-the-ground of ignorance and denial of so many self evident truths.

Trump is con-artist whose endeavors are only for self interest. Your a Trumpist cult member just as some in authority at NOAA are also Trumpist cult members who fear speaking out against a dictator who will eat any who go against him.

Sad :--(

#88
Greyparrot
Greyparrot's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 25,985
3
4
10
Greyparrot's avatar
Greyparrot
3
4
10
-->
@TheDredPriateRoberts
Tulsi did...
#89
Snoopy
Snoopy's avatar
Debates: 1
Posts: 1,320
2
2
4
Snoopy's avatar
Snoopy
2
2
4
-->
@TheDredPriateRoberts
No better choice than Trump .
Tulsi Gabbard...Look her up!!

None of them actually want to help the U.S. they just want to get elected.

#90
TheDredPriateRoberts
TheDredPriateRoberts's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 3,383
3
3
6
TheDredPriateRoberts's avatar
TheDredPriateRoberts
3
3
6
-->
@Snoopy
she hasn't dropped out yet?  it's a 3 person race or do you believe there is a chance it will be someone other than creepy uncle joe, pocahontas or crazy berine?