Buddas Beginner Series 1.1 ENDGAME

Author: Buddamoose

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#31
XLAV
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- Tunneling RM when Earth was fmpov equally scummy
-Adding a mod psych argument upon the already clear indication Virt was town. This is a good example of manufacturing a read. Mod Psych is especially unreliable as it assumes direct knowledge of how a specific mod will act in relation to reponses to player complaints or questions. 

First one I agree. Pretty stupid nooby mistake too. I should have waited a little bit longer and shouldn't have posted when it was 3am in my place lol. 

The mod psych is not a scum tell and a mistake. Even if I was town I'd still use it as a town confirmation on Virt's part. So no, its not a scum tell. 
#32
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@Greyparrot
I agree, even if you were like active for 1 DP, I'd give you MVP. Virt was meh. Even admitted he was unmotivated to play. 
#33
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I was hoping I'd get town so I'd get a sense of how I usually played before I took a break. That way I wouldn't have made any of these noobish mistakes as scum. 

Also I couldn't help but scum read Earth. I was hoping he would step up but shiz I can't help scum reading him. 
#34
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Also Virt's reasoning for scum reading me was pretty retarded. Grey got that shit right with behavior analysis. 
#35
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It annoying how ez this game was supposed to be. I can't believe I had to fuck it up.

Grey is right, town tbh didn't play that well. Earth was just too obvious as scum and I fucked up in DP2, lol.
#36
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@XLAV
I mean...i really don't care about MVP..but like wtf..Virt was like 2nd to last if not least helpful towny. What are you smoking over there Buddha?
#37
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@Buddamoose
Here's why you basically confirmed Virt as town.

Virt asked:
Wtf? Didn’t realize scum had a N0 kill. I’ve played games where the cop had a N0 peek, but never when scum gets a kill. 

This is already a town tell. The question was genuine and obvs comes from town. But when you said:

This classic set-up is only intended to be 3 DP's max, it usually only last for two. On Epicmafia it results in about an even split of town to mafia wins. 

Without a N0 kill it switches to townside wins with a considerable majority. Just poor luck that the Cop got killed tbh
Now I can see at your point of view that this may seem harmless, but at the point of view for the players, when a mod answers a town tell question, it confirms them town. Townies don't know the setup because they're townies but Mafia do. So when you replied to Virt you basically confirmed that he has no knowledge of the setup to everyone, thus he's town. Plus the fact that Virt didn't even ask a question solidifies that you know that he doesn't know the setup. 

Though I'm glad you decided to cut back the mod intervention. 
#38
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@Greyparrot
I'd say RM was the least helpful townie. Virt at least did make himself obv town. RM was the only one who I could paint as scum at a MYLO/LYLO situation because most of town did a pretty good job at making themselves look townish at least, though it could just be mafia knowledge bias I had. 
#39
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@XLAV
You thinking that is why you lost so brutally with me alive at the end and your partner standing no chance in the counter claim for villager.
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#40
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@XLAV
Townies don't know the setup because they're townies but Mafia do

Now, i may not be a genius, but it was an open set up game, and your explanation of it being a confirmation seems wholly predicated upon it not being an open set-up game. 

So now im even more confused 🤔

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#41
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@Greyparrot
I explained in detail why it was a co-award my dude
#42
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I'd like to thank RM for being the person that drew out the bandwagoner. Do you see why I don't like to VTNL early now?
#43
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@Buddamoose
Sometimes people are too lazy to read the open setup. Even when I was  scum this game I was surprised that we actually had a 0NP, lol. If I was town I'd probably be surprised too. But scum do focus more on the setup and they tend to know more since the NP is their backbone in winning the game. 
#44
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@XLAV
It annoying how ez this game was supposed to be. I can't believe I had to fuck it up.
with no small amount of luck. I had a guilty on you N0, a good thing you didn't let me into the game. 

#45
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@Smithereens
Thank Earth for that. 

I actually didn't want to kill you cuz I wanted to make the game more interesting, lol. I thought we will be able to steamroll town after your death, but eh I fucked it up.
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#46
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Sometimes people are too lazy to read the open setup.
So, you cant really determine that from a post. This is forum mafia, surprise, shock, ignorance, etc. can all be feigned. If anything, Virtuoso was scummy AF to open the game with the whole, "we should follow the cop" followed by, "oh I didn't see it was a N0 start." That is, until he followed it up with, 

"Doctor should out" 

While pointing out that doc could self-protect. No joke, he said right there exactly what optimally should have been done. Doctor outs, either he draws a CC or you have a confirmed towny. Either way, its a win. 

Even if that post can be manufactured by mafia, its hugely detrimental because it's forces them to manufacture reads immediately and gives town something to analyze, so they arent likely to suggest it, especially with cop already dead, which is who you CC immediately. Why waste thay
that advantage?

Best case scenario you have 50/50 odds, reads excluded, on one mafia, and 1/3 odds on the other. Best case scenario you have a confirmed doc who can self protect, and 2/5 odds with the other two mafia. 

It's really the most solid play, but one most people will stay away from, especially mafia, because people tend to go, "omg you want doc to out? You must be mafia!" It didnt happen to Virt because everyone already took a null tell as a town tell 🤔. 

But scum do focus more on the setup
This is wholly untrue. Why would mafia focus on something they, as you acknowledged, 
tend to know more
Its not just tend to, mafia absolutely knows more, always. Stating something as conclusive fact, or operating in a manner predicated upon, knowledge that a towny would not otherwise know concretely, is a HUGE scum tell. 

The primary goal of a mafioso is to appear as town and survive. Focusing upon something that could easily lead to "slipping" up and letting on to knowing more than you should, is antithetical to that goal. A mafioso can manufacture set-up analysis, sure, and that would make them appear more town if successfully pulled off, but its extremely risky. Acting in a manner that is unconducive to winning doesnt make much sense as something mafia does more often than not 🤔. I would at least hope not, or dear lord do i never want to be mafia unless its solo 😂😂



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#47
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people tend to go, "omg you want doc to out? You must be mafia!"

This also doubly reinforced Virtuoso's first two posts as genuine. Operating in a manner thats going to draw undue flak, isnt just something a mafioso would not be likely to do, its also something a generally unaware(or one who tends not to read OP's) towny would be likely to do 🤔


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#48
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It came across as super genuine, and XLAV was correct to point that out, but it's not wholly indicative of affiliation

I have a feeling you thought it was super genuine, for independent reasons than I did.

It was his biggest town tell, not necessarily because it inherently was towny, but because it was his biggest tell in terms of something that polarized his affiliation in a sense.

Based on how he acted after that he was either gonna be towny AF, or scummy AF. Not anything in between fmpov. If he doesnt come out with the whole doc strategem, instead of co-MVP and biggest town tell, he would have probably been co-awarded biggest scum-tell with you. Woulda gotten this series off to a spicy start 🔥 😂
#49
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So, you cant really determine that from a post. This is forum mafia, surprise, shock, ignorance, etc. can all be feigned. If anything, Virtuoso was scummy AF to open the game with the whole, "we should follow the cop" followed by, "oh I didn't see it was a N0 start." That is, until he followed it up with, 
That is actually very towny post. And I understand that anything can be feigned, but how long can they fake it? That why reads should be progressive. They acted town in DP1? Then let them live in DP1. Oh now they're being scummy DP2? Then let's lynch him. Thats why we townies have to watch out for slips because scum will find it hard to keep faking. 

What's surprising is, I haven't seen a scum faking a town reaction in DP1 during the 5 years I've played this game. All of them we're just some really noobish townie or townies who didn't pay attention. 

"Doctor should out" 

While pointing out that doc could self-protect. No joke, he said right there exactly what optimally should have been done. Doctor outs, either he draws a CC or you have a confirmed towny. Either way, its a win. 

Even if that post can be manufactured by mafia, its hugely detrimental because it's forces them to manufacture reads immediately and gives town something to analyze, so they arent likely to suggest it, especially with cop already dead, which is who you CC immediately. Why waste thay
that advantage? 
Pretty null-lean town tell. Hell I'd say it if I cared more about role analysis. So yes, it can be manufactured, but if the players were good, someone is going to say it eventually, so might as well get some townie points and be the first to say it, ey?