the USA should promote ocean farms to help alleviate hunger

Author: n8nrgmi

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#31
Imabench
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I think that a far better use for off-shore ocean water would be desalination to turn salt water into drinkable fresh water because water issues are spreading at a much more rapid pace than food scarcity problems. Entire cities like Cape Town in South Africa (Pop 430,000) and more recently Chennai in India (Pop 7,000,000) came dangerously close to running out of water entirely before enacting strict water conservation measures and getting bailed out by more water-rich neighbors alleviated issues, but there are entire areas in rich countries and poor countries where access to fresh water is becoming increasingly problematic. 


The southwestern United States, 7 Central American countries from Panama up to Honduras, Peru, Bolivia, Almost all of Central Africa near the equator, northern and eastern India, most of Southeast Asia, a lot of the Middle East and upper central China, parts of Australia..... All of these areas which are heavily populated and getting blasted with global warming (or at least prolonged drought conditions if you dont buy into that) have water issues where desalination could go a long way in maintaining water security for those areas.... 

Food can be moved and transported relatively easily, but due to water's weight and its wide variety of uses other than consumption, its much more difficult to move water to where it needs to be at a sufficient rate to sustain large areas, so Desalination plants would be a far better use for coastal ocean waters than ocean farms 
#32
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@Pinkfreud08
Look into New Zealand too, they seem to be pretty relaxed and also have a good amount of their shit together down there. 
#33
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@Imabench
Honestly, all of those Scandinavian European countries appeal to me. 

I have so many choices. 

Ultimately if I do move I'll end up going with Germany since I plan on taking German at community college. 
#34
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You mean case in point: Baltimore.
Unlike you wingnuts, I say what I mean. Your thief in chief.


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#35
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@Greyparrot
do you contend that most third world countries are socialist? my impression is they are too poor to redistribute anything. they are mostly free market. 
#36
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@n8nrgmi
There's no limit to oppression when you have a gun and the other person does not.

#37
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@Greyparrot
the ocean is full of plastic and someone thinks this is a good idea?  lol, there's even plastic in sea salt.
#38
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@TheDredPriateRoberts
Well, you definitely can't put it in the Pacific Ocean where most of the plastic already is. Much of the world's plastic is shipped over to China and Indonesia to be "recycled."  Every straw a California idiot tosses into the "recycle" bin ends up in Indonesia and then it goes straight up tippy the sea turtle's nose from there. 

Leave it to Californians to find a way to fuck up the Pacific Ocean.

Sensible person: let's build a new local landfill for this local plastic. It will be costly and property values might go down, but it will keep the plastic out of the ocean.

Californian Nimby: Nah! Let's send it to China! Not my problem now!
#39
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@n8nrgmi
do you contend that most third world countries are socialist? My impression is they are too poor to redistribute anything. they are mostly free market. 
I don't contend this.  However, if there are no "socialist countries", there are still socialists.
#40
ebuc
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@Greyparrot
All good points.
You must have forgotten who you were talking too, in order to stated "All good points" Wink Wink ;--)

Perhaps natural hunger isn't really a bad thing.
When starving our genetics kick-in a powerful substance --hormone?--   as a last ditch effort to keep us going when starving.  There is a small group of new englanders who keep themselves hungry all of the time in order ti have their genes produce this substance more often.

Most animals in nature die from hunger after all, and we don't think twice about it. Time to get back in touch with the planet.
Fuller tried to clarify this evolutionary point in his 1979 book "Critical Path"  i.e. he laid out two kinds of evolution;

Class 1 ?} where humanity moves forward --butt forward into the future--   for a higher standard of living with inadvertent side effects ---doing more with less--   happening along the way,

Class 2 ?} anticipatory design sciences --mind forward-- creating those doing-more-with-less { ephemeralization } technologies that coincide with higher standard of living without destroying the ecological environment that sustains us all.

Historically, humanity has primarily been practicing class 1 evolution.

Fuller was primarily about his 'anticipatory design science' philosophy as early as 1920.

..."that is the Dymaxion principle of doing ever more with ever less weight, time, and ergs per each given level of functional performance. With an average recycling rate for all metals of 22 years, and with comparable design improvements in performance per pound, ephemeralization means that ever more people are being served at ever higher standards with the same old materials”"

..."He posited that systems thinking helps us understand our connectedness and dependence on our local biome. Watch the 1974 film “The World of R. Buckminster Fuller.” ".....




#41
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@n8nrgmi
A good way that I think people could sign on in terms of eliminating poverty is to buy the stuff of the locals.  Africa has lots of resources.  So does India.  Most of the people on this site are against invasion, but trading with the regions would also help eliminate poverty.  We can get sweet deals which give the west more natural resources to make the west better.  We can only trade with countries which accept human rights to encourage other countries to accept them as well.

#42
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@Greyparrot
from what I have read most if it is washed into the oceans via rivers that empty into the oceans, thus other countries put far more plastics into the oceans than the U.S.
#43
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@TheDredPriateRoberts
The only plastic from the US that makes its way into the oceans in any major quantity is plastics from the "recyclable" bins that don't have a decent chance at making it safely to a landfill.

US fishing nets are in the single-digit percentages for contribution.
#44
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@n8nrgmi
ocean farming. we have vast swaths of unused ocean. sea weed, fish, mussel etc. i read that an area the size of the state of oregon could feed the world, so we have basically unlimited potential. plus sea weed captures a lot more carbon than trees do. 

It’s not a matter of growing food...it’s a matter of getting it to people - trust me I did a project on this.
#45
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@ILikePie5
Exactly. the same conditions that starve these people make it really hard to get the food to them. Most of the disaster areas food aid is sent to are completely man-made disasters or at least made incredibly worse by human interference.

We could have been able to deliver far more aid and food to Puerto Rico if there was a competent government in charge with competent infrastructure.


#46
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pollywanna
A case in point, the Trump Foundation.
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#47
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@ILikePie5
why do scientists always say we need to grow our productivity of food production if we dont need more food? 

plus it is basic logic. if the world can feed ten billion and we have ten billion, there's no room for restaurants or fat people or people in general to waste food or overindulge. we'd have to ration. 
#48
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@n8nrgmi
When they say "we" they really mean warlord infested nations.
#49
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@n8nrgmi
why do scientists always say we need to grow our productivity of food production if we dont need more food? 

plus it is basic logic. if the world can feed ten billion and we have ten billion, there's no room for restaurants or fat people or people in general to waste food or overindulge. we'd have to ration. 

Source for the first claim?

And for your second point, you’re making my point - there’s a lot of food out there (we can produce more if needed). The government subsidizes agriculture in the US. Like I said earlier - it’s a matter of getting the food to the people. To the that you’d have to work with the govts of other nation which as GP mentioned are comprised of warlords who’d take it for themselves.

1333 days later

#50
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@ILikePie5
#51
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"1333 days later"

Wow, now that's thread necromancy. I wonder if five hundred years from now people will respond to threads that have been dead for hundreds of years...
#52
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@ILikePie5
this seems to indicate we will need more food production

do you have a source that we will produce enough in the future? my general understanding is that right now we produce enough food, but i dont know the extent if we need to ration at all right now. i understand the main problem is getting food to remote areas, distribution. 
#53
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also insect farms are a good idea too.