-->
@Snoopy
Jesus isn't literally saying "Hate thy neighbor".
What is he LITERALLY saying? Now explain LITERALLY.
What does hate mean?
Posts
Total:
118
-->
@Stephen
All answered, find another meaningless meme.
-->
@ludofl3x
The answer is we don't know what God's motivations are. Perhaps He sought to confuse the Jewish religious elites, who professed to be wise but couldn't even understand His relatively simple message.But that's not what you're saying in the original post I responded to.Christ spoke in riddles and mysterious sayings, to confound the listener and accomplish His good purpose.You're saying here you do know his motivations: he wanted to confound the listener AND ACCOMPLISH HIS GOOD PURPOSE through, somehow, this confusion.
You are getting into semantics with someone rather than getting into Luke.
-->
@disgusted
You win.What is he LITERALLY saying? Now explain LITERALLY.
-->
@Snoopy
hahahahaha I always do.
-->
@disgusted
All answered, find another meaningless meme.
Stop fkn lying. And I just knew you would derail your own thread once you had ran out of argument, which took only a few posts.
You haven't answered these questionsWhat does hate mean to you?What did it mean to you in the 20th century?Why does it mean something different in the 21st century?
So?
I am still waiting for your answers to these little gems of yours
--> @disgusted wrote: How did the alleged hebrews kearn Alpha Centaurian, especially since they believed that stars were just little lights in the dome above their flat earth?
Where is your evidence to support that claim? How do you know that the ancient Hebrews believed that the stars were only "just little lights in the sky" ? And how do you know that the ancient Hebrews were believers in the "flat earth" when the Old Testament indicates otherwise?
Or do we file this under as yet another ridiculous and outrageous unsupported claim of yours along with these below?
@disgusted "we have evolved by exactly the same process as every other animal that has ever existed on this planet"?
No proof offered by the claimant.
@disgusted "the word god did not exist before the middle ages"
No proof offered by the claimant.
@disgusted "We all exist in the same reality"
No proof offered by the claimant
but unavoidable in the enlightening of man@disgusted Then how did cavemen come up with it?
Do you have evidence for that claim? Did "cavemen " have a religion? Did they worship gods?
-->
@Stephen
Stop fkn lying. And I just knew you would derail your own thread once you had ran out of argument, which took only a few posts.
My argument has never even been addressed by either you or anyone else in reply. Keep trying.
The question is what does hate mean? You have failed to even address the question.
My argument has never even been addressed by either you or anyone else in reply. Keep trying.
I have and so have others. Even prosser, your last buddy on this earth has addressed your _ "argument". he says the same as I have said:
I said post 2
Luke 14;26 Is about putting everyone and everything second to god/ the Christ and not a literal "hate" of anyone as proven by the fact that The Christ tells "honour thy mother and they father" - love thy neighbour" - "suffer the children unto me" etc etc. In other words it is idiomatic.
And your bosom pal prosser at post 40 followed up with:
The word we should be analysing is 'μισεῖ', particularly its idiomatic use in 1st century koine greek.
SO STOP LYING, YOUR ARGUMENT HAS BEEN ADDRESSED IN FULL. You are just not happy with the response; hard fkn luck, there there, never mind, grow FKN up.
The question is what does hate mean? You have failed to even address the question.
And you answered that part of the question yourself. You then threw in a verse from Luke of the New Testament as if you had stumbled on some great Anti Christian 'gotcha' moment. You hadn't and It has all been explained to you why you hadn't. You don't accept the explanation. I don't care, that is your choice. So you keep banging your sponge against the coral, sunshine, it makes no difference to me. I don't fk care and neither does anyone else.
Luke 14
14 Now it happened, as He went into the house of one of the rulers of the Pharisees to eat bread on the Sabbath, that they watched Him closely. 2 And behold, there was a certain man before Him who had dropsy. 3 And Jesus, answering, spoke to the lawyers and Pharisees, saying, “Is it lawful to heal on the [a]Sabbath?”
4 But they kept silent. And He took him and healed him, and let him go. 5 Then He answered them, saying, “Which of you, having a [b]donkey or an ox that has fallen into a pit, will not immediately pull him out on the Sabbath day?” 6 And they could not answer Him regarding these things.
7 So He told a parable to those who were invited, when He noted how they chose the best places, saying to them: 8 “When you are invited by anyone to a wedding feast, do not sit down in the best place, lest one more honorable than you be invited by him; 9 and he who invited you and him come and say to you, ‘Give place to this man,’ and then you begin with shame to take the lowest place. 10 But when you are invited, go and sit down in the lowest place, so that when he who invited you comes he may say to you, ‘Friend, go up higher.’ Then you will have glory in the presence of those who sit at the table with you. 11 For whoever exalts himself will be [c]humbled, and he who humbles himself will be exalted.”
12 Then He also said to him who invited Him, “When you give a dinner or a supper, do not ask your friends, your brothers, your relatives, nor rich neighbors, lest they also invite you back, and you be repaid. 13 But when you give a feast, invite the poor, the [d]maimed, the lame, the blind. 14 And you will be blessed, because they cannot repay you; for you shall be repaid at the resurrection of the just.”
15 Now when one of those who sat at the table with Him heard these things, he said to Him, “Blessed is he who shall eat [e]bread in the kingdom of God!”
16 Then He said to him, “A certain man gave a great supper and invited many, 17 and sent his servant at supper time to say to those who were invited, ‘Come, for all things are now ready.’ 18 But they all with one accord began to make excuses. The first said to him, ‘I have bought a piece of ground, and I must go and see it. I ask you to have me excused.’ 19 And another said, ‘I have bought five yoke of oxen, and I am going to test them. I ask you to have me excused.’ 20 Still another said, ‘I have married a wife, and therefore I cannot come.’ 21 So that servant came and reported these things to his master. Then the master of the house, being angry, said to his servant, ‘Go out quickly into the streets and lanes of the city, and bring in here the poor and the [f]maimed and the lame and the blind.’ 22 And the servant said, ‘Master, it is done as you commanded, and still there is room.’ 23 Then the master said to the servant, ‘Go out into the highways and hedges, and compel them to come in, that my house may be filled. 24 For I say to you that none of those men who were invited shall taste my supper.’ ”
25 Now great multitudes went with Him. And He turned and said to them, 26 “If anyone comes to Me and does not hate his father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters, yes, and his own life also, he cannot be My disciple. 27 And whoever does not bear his cross and come after Me cannot be My disciple. 28 For which of you, intending to build a tower, does not sit down first and count the cost, whether he has enough to finish it— 29 lest, after he has laid the foundation, and is not able to finish, all who see it begin to mock him, 30 saying, ‘This man began to build and was not able to finish’? 31 Or what king, going to make war against another king, does not sit down first and consider whether he is able with ten thousand to meet him who comes against him with twenty thousand? 32 Or else, while the other is still a great way off, he sends a delegation and asks conditions of peace. 33 So likewise, whoever of you does not forsake all that he has cannot be My disciple.
34 “Salt is good; but if the salt has lost its flavor, how shall it be seasoned? 35 It is neither fit for the land nor for the [g]dunghill, but men throw it out. He who has ears to hear, let him hear!”
-->
@Snoopy
Which ignorant, primitive, superstitious savage wrote that?
-->
@ludofl3x
You're saying here you do know his motivations: he wanted to confound the listener AND ACCOMPLISH HIS GOOD PURPOSE through, somehow, this confusion.
It is impossible to fully know the will of God, to be cognizant of every possible consideration going through His mind when He makes a decision of any kind. However, a key motivation behind an action of His can be known if the Bible gives us a why.
In Matthew 13:11-13 Jesus said "The knowledge of the mysteries of heaven has been given to you but not to them...This is why I speak to them in parables: 'Though seeing, they do not see; though hearing, they do not hear or understand.' "
In other cases, in reading Scripture there may seem to be an intuitive and commonly accepted explanation for X. That explanation might feasibly be incorrect, but a passage oftentimes may be straightforward enough that one can speak on its meaning with reasonable confidence.
If I grant that, then what end would this achieve? Because it seems according to the rules, by doing this and then allowing other religions to form subsequent to the correct one, he is doing so either not caring, best case, that so many of his creations are going to burn in hell tormented for all eternity through no fault of their own, or worst case, is designing a system to accomplish exactly that. I welcome your explanation of the contrary.
Again, one could ask why God didn't just transmit His word into everyone's brain and then perform a miracle for every living person so that they have no doubt as to the Truth. Nobody knows the answer to that but God, though people might be able to speculate. That's the best answer I can give you.
-->
@Swagnarok
No it isn't. The imagination that contains the god can definitely construct all of those decisions as easily as it constructs the god. What the god thinks is absolutely what the human imagination of it's creator thinks.It is impossible to fully know the will of God, to be cognizant of every possible consideration going through His mind when He makes a decision of any kind.
-->
@Stephen
What is your god literally saying in Luke 14:26?
What gives you the right to deny what he is literally saying?
-->
@Swagnarok
Again, one could ask why God didn't just transmit His word into everyone's brain and then perform a miracle for every living person so that they have no doubt as to the Truth. Nobody knows the answer to that but God,
I know the answer and it's quite simple.
A fictional character is not capable of affecting reality at all. Your god is a man made construct. Simple really. You're going to die.
What is your god literally saying in Luke 14:26?
I don’t have a god, stop being silly.And as you can clearly see, that particular verse comes from a very human being known to the world as Luke.
What gives you the right to deny what he is literally saying?
I understand that the ancients didn’t have the Oxford and English dictionary at hand at the time of writing their scriptures. Your brain doesn't seem to be able to cope with the understanding of phraseology vs idiomacy , but no one should be surprised at that, should they.
Your ill conceived belief of having a anti Christian gotcha moment has faded into the mist and your extremely poor attempt at stretching and milking an argument has faded along with it.
Your realistic argument should now lay with the fact that at least one person on this thread agrees with you. It is he with whom you do now have a legitimate argument as he insists the word has to be taken literally. But for some reason, you are avoiding it, which means your just being contrary for the fkn sake of it. Well knock yourself out sea sponge, no one fkn cares, especially me.
-->
@Swagnarok
Don't forget that a God is just an assumption.
Therefore a God's motivations can be anything that you want them to be.
-->
@disgusted
What is your god literally saying in Luke 14:26?
I don’t have a god, stop being silly.And as you can clearly see, that particular verse comes from a very human being known to the world as Luke.
What gives you the right to deny what he is literally saying?
I understand that the ancients didn’t have the Oxford and English dictionary at hand at the time of writing their scriptures. Your brain doesn't seem to be able to cope with the understanding of phraseology vs idiomacy , but no one should be surprised at that, should they.
Your ill conceived belief of having a anti Christian gotcha moment has faded into the mist and your extremely poor attempt at stretching and milking an argument has faded along with it.
Your realistic argument should now lay with the fact that at least one person on this thread agrees with you. It is he with whom you do now have a legitimate argument as he insists the word has to be taken literally. But for some reason, you are avoiding it, which means your just being contrary for the fkn sake of it. Well knock yourself out sea sponge, no one fkn cares, especially me.
-->
@Stephen
You do, that 's why your stamping your feet and frothing at the mouth.
The book is the word of god, so it's not the mythical Luke it's your god. Do try to keep up.
Look what your fellow godist says.
I wouldn't think your god would have need of a dictionary.
Why do you contradict what your god says?
Added: 08.01.19 02:25PM
--> @RoderickSpode
The Bible equates hate with murder.
But you think that loving less equates to murder, how do you come to that conclusion?
Imagine If God didn't get the guys to do the book for him to give to them.
So so lucky.
-->
@Deb-8-a-bull
Imagine if the guys who wrote the book were just making it up?
-->
@disgusted
You do, that 's why your stamping your feet and frothing at the mouth.
In your dreams, sea sponge. I don't give two fks about you or your opinion or your juvenile idiocy..
I repeat:
Your realistic argument should now lay with the fact that at least one person on this thread agrees with you. It is he with whom you do now have a legitimate argument as he insists the word has to be taken literally. But for some reason, you are avoiding it, which means your just being contrary for the fkn sake of it. Well knock yourself out sea sponge, no one fkn cares, especially me.
-->
@Stephen
Too afraid to respond to my post? I'm not surprised.
-->
@disgusted
Imagine if the guys who wrote the book were just making it up?
The one thing that the 'guys who wrote the book' may not have made up are what Jesus said. The Gospel of Thomas is nothing but a collection of one sentence sayings with no narrative at all. Many of those saying are - or resemble - verses in the canonical gospels, such as
55. Jesus said, "Whoever does not hate father and mother cannot be my disciple, and whoever does not hate brothers and sisters, and carry the cross as I do, will not be worthy of me."
In Thomas there is nothing to suggest Jesus claimed to be or was taken as an actual divinity.
13. Jesus said to his disciples, "Compare me to something and tell me what I am like."Simon Peter said to him, "You are like a just messenger."
Matthew said to him, "You are like a wise philosopher."
Thomas said to him, "Teacher, my mouth is utterly unable to say what you are like."
Jesus said, "I am not your teacher. Because you have drunk, you have become intoxicated from the bubbling spring that I have tended."
Nothing is rigorously provable, but I think the balance of probability is that Jesus was an ordinary human. In that sense he was 'real', but after his death (and possibly before) his followers were ascribing god-like supernatural powers to him and wrote fanciful narratives around his actual sayings and (non-miraculous) actions.
-->
@keithprosser
or resemble
Is the most important part of your post keith, you are effectively agreeing with me that it is not what this Jesus character actually said. The godists are always banging on about "in Jesus own words", simply no.
That is what they believe it's not demonstrable fact.
-->
@disgusted
--> @keithprosser wrote: or resembleIs the most important part of your post keith,
That says it all!!!! doesn't it "keith" ? hahahahhahahhahah
-->
@disgusted
Disgusted,
YOUR QUOTE TO STEPHEN: "Too afraid to respond to my post? I'm not surprised."
Within the same context, STEPHEN has failed to address my post #20, other than to RUN AWAY from it, that shows explicitly that the term HATE in Luke 14:26 means exactly what it says, and that is HATE! Therefore, as I have shown ad infinitum, my Jesus was in fact a real SOB at times!
.
-->
@disgusted
"If anyone comes to me and does not hate father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters--yes, even their own life--such a person cannot be my disciple. Luke 14:26
Was this Luke dude a fundamentalist white nationalist? Scary that these types are being encouraged more and more in USA by people in power. Very scary!
-->
@Stephen
Yes it does and it went well over your head.
Within the same context, STEPHEN has failed to address my post #20, other than to RUN AWAY from it,
I did adress it. I didn't agree with it and I have told you that you do not understand your own link because it appears to agree with me.
That shows explicitly that the term HATE in Luke 14:26 means exactly what it says, and that is HATE!
I don't agree. I have said I don't agree many times and have also said that I believe it clearly to be idiomatic. You don't accept this. Ok, so what? . You are not catching on are you; I don't fkn care.
I will not argue that on many occasions when Christians have truly painted themselves into a corner they will leap to the excuse of idiomacy, but this is not one of those occasions and you are no more better than the sea sponge at understanding phraseology vs idiomacy when it comes to the use of the ancient words and or phrases.
I have given my opinion, you, to my mind have not shown me anything that causes me to change my opinion, so fk off 'brother' I don't give two fks.
-->
@Stephen
Rod:
The bible equates hate with murder.
Blindy:
The bible equates not loving a little with murder.
How do you determine that this Jesus character means the opposite of what he says?